IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

NOPE!
Only 24 F-14 (20 in storage with status unknown high estimates are that only 10 could be made flight worthy in an emergency)
Only 24 MiG-29's
Only 24 Saegheh/Azarakhsh/Simorgh combined and most are Azarakhsh & Simorgh not Saegheh
Less than 24 Su-24's
60 F-4's 60 F-5's
20 J-7/Su-22

Shows you what the IR Military industry prioritized in its 30 year life span. Rivalry, corruption, disdain for the airforce, etc lead to an airforce that rivals a 3rd world country.

Between 1980-2005 Iran had many opportunities to procure modern aircraft and technological know how. Instead you had traitors like Rafsanjani that refused to modernize certain segments of the armed forces. Him and his corrupt sons destroyed the Republic along with others. Just a large group of profiteers including the upper echelon of the IRGC today.

 

[Arminkh]

Shows you what the IR Military industry prioritized in its 30 year life span. Rivalry, corruption, disdain for the airforce, etc lead to an airforce that rivals a 3rd world country.

Between 1980-2005 Iran had many opportunities to procure modern aircraft and technological know how. Instead you had traitors like Rafsanjani that refused to modernize certain segments of the armed forces. Him and his corrupt sons destroyed the Republic along with others. Just a large group of profiteers including the upper echelon of the IRGC today.

Having all the top notch fighter jets in the world without the know how to produce them won't do anyone any good. Just look at Iran's war with Iraq. We probably had the best air force in western Asia then but as soon as the supply line of parts was cut, they really didn't mean much.

A real war puts a lot of stress on your weapons and parts inventory. It is not only about maintaining the fleet and keep them flight worthy. It is also about replacing the lost fighter jets. With sanctions in place, Iran can't buy them from outside and it can't produce them locally. So it is only a limited resource that Iran need use as a last resort. Just like its F-14s that were kept away from action most of the time during Iran-Iraq war. And a wise military leader should not relay on a resource that he cannot use extensively wherever and whenever he needs them.

Even if Iran had procured new fighters in the period you mentioned, they had probably ended up with the same problem of lack of parts supply today and again, not useful because we again have the sanctions in place and we can't produce them locally.

Iran used this lesson well and invested on weapons that it could locally support. In a theoretical war, Iran's arsenal of missiles, drones and fast attack boats would be much more beneficial than a foreign sourced air force.

 

[TheImmortal]

Having all the top notch fighter jets in the world without the know how to produce them won't do anyone any good. Just look at Iran's war with Iraq. We probably had the best air force in western Asia then but as soon as the supply line of parts was cut, they really didn't mean much.

A real war puts a lot of stress on your weapons and parts inventory. It is not only about maintaining the fleet and keep them flight worthy. It is also about replacing the lost fighter jets. With sanctions in place, Iran can't buy them from outside and it can't produce them locally. So it is only a limited resource that Iran need use as a last resort. Just like its F-14s that were kept away from action most of the time during Iran-Iraq war. And a wise military leader should not relay on a resource that he cannot use extensively wherever and whenever he needs them.

Even if Iran had procured new fighters in the period you mentioned, they had probably ended up with the same problem of lack of parts supply today and again, not useful because we again have the sanctions in place and we can't produce them locally.

Iran used this lesson well and invested on weapons that it could locally support. In a theoretical war, Iran's arsenal of missiles, drones and fast attack boats would be much more beneficial than a foreign sourced air force.

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suite I also mentioned technological know how in my post. Blueprints, tech know how transfer, lots of things were up for purchase.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, ex soviet countries and corrupt arms dealers were selling EVERYTHING to the highest bidder. Where do you think Iran got the KH-55 from to make Soumar? Russia was offering Iran warships and long range bombers, something unheard of today.

But Rafsanjani and his corrupt posse didn’t think it was worth for Iran to invest in such programs. Yet today many of Iran’s major arms program Iran owes its roots to foreign tech from the 80’s & 90’s! Shahab 3 (NK nodong), Iran’s kilo subs (purchased in 90’s), Chinese anti ship missiles (foreign transfer in 90’s), Iran’s soumar cruise missile program (KH-55), Iran’s radar program (many Russia radars).

 

[07_SeppDietrich]

NOPE!
Only 24 F-14 (20 in storage with status unknown high estimates are that only 10 could be made flight worthy in an emergency)
Only 24 MiG-29's
Only 24 Saegheh/Azarakhsh/Simorgh combined and most are Azarakhsh & Simorgh not Saegheh
Less than 24 Su-24's
60 F-4's 60 F-5's
20 J-7/Su-22

what about Mirage F1 @VEVAK ,are IRIAF still using it?

 

[TheImmortal]

what about Mirage F1 @VEVAK ,are IRIAF still using it?

The Iranian military is still using Peykans. So I won’t be surprised if they still use tanks from Reza Shah era and muskets as well.

 

[VEVAK]

what about Mirage F1 @VEVAK ,are IRIAF still using it?

Yea but only ~ 12 or so are airworthy IRGC also has a handful of Su-25's too

Main problem with Iran's Air Force is a vast verity of fighters in small numbers and when your forced to build a lot of the spare parts yourself it becomes a problem!

A country with Iran's budget should only have 1 type of Air Superiority Aircraft, 1 Type of strike aircraft that uses a lot of the same parts as your Air Superiority aircraft (Like F-15E & F-15C or Su-30 & Su-34) & 1 type of Multirole fighter & if you can afford it a separate heavily armored CAS.

Your Air Force shouldn't have to worry about parts for 2 at best 3 different types of engines for your fighter fleet
Today if you add in IRGC handful of Su-25's Iran has to worry about at least 8 different types of engines & spare parts for it's fighter fleet alone it's absurd!

Shows you what the IR Military industry prioritized in its 30 year life span. Rivalry, corruption, disdain for the airforce, etc lead to an airforce that rivals a 3rd world country.

Between 1980-2005 Iran had many opportunities to procure modern aircraft and technological know how. Instead you had traitors like Rafsanjani that refused to modernize certain segments of the armed forces. Him and his corrupt sons destroyed the Republic along with others. Just a large group of profiteers including the upper echelon of the IRGC today.

NONSESE! During Khatami Iran tried to buy New MiG-29's and the U.S. went as far as purchasing those fighters so Iran doesn't get it's hands on it!

And you don't know what goes on behind closed doors! If Iran has to agree to maintenance crews from another country just to keep it's fleet active then that's unacceptable!

You talk about Shah buying fighter well Iran had the 4th most powerful Air Force in the world when Saddam attack and if Iran was truly capable of taking full advantage of it's Air Force the Iran-Iraq war should have been over in a matter of months!

Operations like Kaman 99 should have been done on a daily or at worst on a weekly bases! And yet with all the F-4's and F-5's Iran had in it's fleet using only 100 of them to carryout attacks into Iraqi territory every other day without the Americans was NOT possible

What does that mean? That means with all the money Iran paid for those fighter those fighters weren't in Iran to do Iran's bidding they were only sold to Iran to do America's bidding and we had to flip the bill for them!

Sadly despite what Iran's been through people like you still don't realize that!

 

[Arminkh]

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suite I also mentioned technological know how in my post. Blueprints, tech know how transfer, lots of things were up for purchase.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, ex soviet countries and corrupt arms dealers were selling EVERYTHING to the highest bidder. Where do you think Iran got the KH-55 from to make Soumar? Russia was offering Iran warships and long range bombers, something unheard of today.

But Rafsanjani and his corrupt posse didn’t think it was worth for Iran to invest in such programs. Yet today many of Iran’s major arms program Iran owes its roots to foreign tech from the 80’s & 90’s! Shahab 3 (NK nodong), Iran’s kilo subs (purchased in 90’s), Chinese anti ship missiles (foreign transfer in 90’s), Iran’s soumar cruise missile program (KH-55), Iran’s radar program (many Russia radars).

Technology to build and support a cutting edge air fleet is not something that can be procured. You need to have the whole supply chain from the special alloys and composites to electronics. That is why only a handful of countries can do that and even then, they rely on imports from other countries for some parts that they cannot source internally.

WWII USA is a very good example. Did you know the famous P-51 Mustang used Rolls-Royce Merlin engine simply because US didn't have a local engine as good even though it was a fully developed and industrial country back then. It took US whole 40s and best part of 50s to become fully self reliant in aviation industry.

Point is, even big guys who invented airplane, need help from outside. Now taking Iran, a developing country with its first university barely a century old, to the point to develop a credible jetfighter without any purchase from outside its borders in the short period you mentioned is impossible.

Iran will eventually get there. But it is not going to happen overnight and the fact that it is not there yet, given the circumstances is no one's fault.

 

[TheImmortal]

WWII USA is a very good example. Did you know the famous P-51 Mustang used Rolls-Royce Merlin engine simply because US didn't have a local engine as good even though it was a fully developed and industrial country back then. It took US whole 40s and best part of 50s to become fully self reliant in aviation industry.

This is some revisionist history right there. Pre-WWII US military was Substandard. You can even find the army era recruitment video showing soldiers hiding in cardboard tanks and firing fake guns....yes fake guns! They didn’t even have proper equipment for a recruitment video.

The point I am trying to make is that even the US at one point had a subpar arms industry. WWII forced the US into a wartime economy and it was the capture of Nazi scientists that led to a boom in US military technology. Hypothetically those same scientists instead fled to Iran (assuming Iran was an independent country not a puppet country) then Iran could have made great strides in its military if the determination was there.

Yet after 30 years, Iran cannot even make a F-5 fighter jet. It’s not supply chain problems, it’s management and corruption problems. You are talking about a society that till 15 years ago most people were driving a 1960’s era car that had no air conditioning (Peykan).

If you think waiting another 10 years or 20 years will fix this you are mistaken. Iran could have the blueprints to a F-35 and the know how and they would struggle to put together a squadron. Mismanagement is rampant in many areas of Iran’s society let alone military.

Outside of missiles and maybe AD systems (though the amounts existing is unknown), what large sophisticated military equipment has Iran mass produced?

No doubt It’s simply amazing what Iran has been able to do up to this point given the problems it exerts on itself let alone sanctions and the other things foreign powers are doing. Iran first needs to get out of its own way in hindering military progress let’s not blame time here.

 

[07_SeppDietrich]

Guys which version is MiG-29 operated by IRIAF (9.12A or 9.12B)?

 

[Sineva]

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suite I also mentioned technological know how in my post. Blueprints, tech know how transfer, lots of things were up for purchase.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, ex soviet countries and corrupt arms dealers were selling EVERYTHING to the highest bidder. Where do you think Iran got the KH-55 from to make Soumar? Russia was offering Iran warships and long range bombers, something unheard of today.

But Rafsanjani and his corrupt posse didn’t think it was worth for Iran to invest in such programs. Yet today many of Iran’s major arms program Iran owes its roots to foreign tech from the 80’s & 90’s! Shahab 3 (NK nodong), Iran’s kilo subs (purchased in 90’s), Chinese anti ship missiles (foreign transfer in 90’s), Iran’s soumar cruise missile program (KH-55), Iran’s radar program (many Russia radars).

Russia back in the 90s- late 2000s was a very unreliable supplier that proved to be very vulnerable to us pressure,often deals were never completely fulfilled or even cancelled outright and even when equipment was delivered there were often still problems.There were lots of claims in the media about russian weapons offers to iran but in reality most of this was never offered or indeed asked for.
Personally I think that on the whole that back then iran was actually pretty lucky to get whatever it did out of russia,however I do think that owing to the current very frosty political relations between russia and the west,due to the cold war mk2 that the west has now seen fit to initiate with russia,that now would probably be an excellent time for iran to try and procure russian weapons and a lot of other things besides,sadly however because of rouhanis shortsightedness[stupidity?] the un arms embargo on iran was allowed to remain in place rather than being removed as a condition of irans acceptance of the jcpoa,so most weapons purchases are still currently verboten sadly,also one gets the distinct impression that unfortunately rouhani would still much rather try to do business with the west instead of russia,with the sukhoi superjet being an excellent example of this.

 

[drmeson]

Words would not matter. Calculations would not matter either. Our skies are unsafe and in case of regional conflict, IRIAF will be wiped out of skies in matter of hours. This weakened force can not even carry out point defence in Iranian skies, let alone guarding our extended regional interests.

People blame sanctions. That is because our political or diplomatic front has failed miserably at global stage. These corrupt and lustful mullahs were afraid of a strong IRIAF from the day of Nojeh coup. That ancient qom-mashad illiterate mullah league is still in power. They would be relieved to see IRIAF disband one day instead of seeing it improve. They fear this force themselves.

Only way the IRIAF can survive is to merge it with IRGC-AF. That way it will get funds and trust of illiterate-corrupt Mullahs in power. We will see ourselves how many squadrons of Su-30SM and Su-35S will be procured then.

 

[Arab Sword]

Words would not matter. Calculations would not matter either. Our skies are unsafe and in case of regional conflict, IRIAF will be wiped out of skies in matter of hours. This weakened force can not even carry out point defence in Iranian skies, let alone guarding our extended regional interests.

People blame sanctions. That is because our political or diplomatic front has failed miserably at global stage. These corrupt and lustful mullahs were afraid of a strong IRIAF from the day of Nojeh coup. That ancient qom-mashad illiterate mullah league is still in power. They would be relieved to see IRIAF disband one day instead of seeing it improve. They fear this force themselves.

Only way the IRIAF can survive is to merge it with IRGC-AF. That way it will get funds and trust of illiterate-corrupt Mullahs in power. We will see ourselves how many squadrons of Su-30SM and Su-35S will be procured then.

Hmmm so i understand from you that the Regime wanted to stay in power so they weakened the air force to make itself dramatically more vulnerable to a US-led Regime change in Iran??? Lol

Let me correct this for you my brother : people don’t make coups by air force. Throughout history nearly all of coups are performed by ground forces, troops on the ground, even police units or even militias etc, the common thing they are all ground based. You dont need a strategist to understand that you can’t control a government buildings thousands of kilometers above, lol.

Thats why some autocratic governments have kept their airforce (and air defense) very superior while their ground forces are relatively weak. AF & AD will be the trustworthiest for many civil dictators!

Even when airforces do participate in coups, they merely do a complementary role, where even the police are playing a more important role than em.

Thats because coups historically target three buildings : the presidential palace, the parliament, and more importantly the tv broadcasting station. They seize control of these buildings, and then announce the coup thro the broadcasting station; thats what the Houthi rebels did in 2014 for example!

However, for governments facing regime-change threats from foreign states, airforces are the biggest barrier to deter this threat! Along with other long range weapons and strategic forces.

So saying Iranian gov is protecting itself by weakening airforces is a very, very inaccurate phrase, and historically inaccurate as well. With all due respect to you my friend!

Iran is weak on air (and navy) forces because these industries are very heavy and require a lot of experience, and even much more of funding. Iran’s GDP is relatively good, but its not enough at all to fund such extremely expensive projects, particularly under the sanctions. Furthermore, Iran is a third world country, a rising one indeed, but it is still like other third world lacking a lot of experience.
Thats why the more lighter and more cheaper missile technology is very much more suitable choice for the Iranian authorities, and more effective.

I understand you don’t like the gov, but only objective criticism that will bring good for all of us!

 

[TheImmortal]

Russia back in the 90s- late 2000s was a very unreliable supplier that proved to be very vulnerable to us pressure,often deals were never completely fulfilled or even cancelled outright and even when equipment was delivered there were often still problems.There were lots of claims in the media about russian weapons offers to iran but in reality most of this was never offered or indeed asked for.
Personally I think that on the whole that back then iran was actually pretty lucky to get whatever it did out of russia,however I do think that owing to the current very frosty political relations between russia and the west,due to the cold war mk2 that the west has now seen fit to initiate with russia,that now would probably be an excellent time for iran to try and procure russian weapons and a lot of other things besides,sadly however because of rouhanis shortsightedness[stupidity?] the un arms embargo on iran was allowed to remain in place rather than being removed as a condition of irans acceptance of the jcpoa,so most weapons purchases are still currently verboten sadly,also one gets the distinct impression that unfortunately rouhani would still much rather try to do business with the west instead of russia,with the sukhoi superjet being an excellent example of this.

Dude you talk out both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say Russia was unreliable supplier (forgetting to mention ex soviet blocs that were selling assets off left and right like the KH-55) in the 90’s.

But that they would be a reliable supplier today, but can’t because Rouhani?!

Lol you are very naive. If no arms embargo existed, Iran would still get the same “unreliable” Russia and China. Neither country is going to sell Iran advanced fighters in significant numbers. The US would put too much pressure on them.

 

[Sineva]

Dude you talk out both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say Russia was unreliable supplier (forgetting to mention ex soviet blocs that were selling assets off left and right like the KH-55) in the 90’s.

But that they would be a reliable supplier today, but can’t because Rouhani?!

Lol you are very naive. If no arms embargo existed, Iran would still get the same “unreliable” Russia and China. Neither country is going to sell Iran advanced fighters in significant numbers. The US would put too much pressure on them.

Comprehension isnt really one of your strong suites is it my friend?
The russia of yeltsin was in a very pitiful state and basically was pretty limited in both what it could do for iran and what it was willing to do for iran,it certainly wasnt going to alienate itself from the west by selling iran whatever iran wanted and indeed this attitude continued right up until fairly recently.However within the last decade things began to change and relations between russia and the west began to cool tho they really became very frosty with the coup in ukraine and the russians taking back crimea,in addition there was libya and the western support for the terrorists in syria as well.
The simple fact of the matter is this:at this point in time russia western relations are literally the worst they have been since the cold war [russias own words] while iranian russian relations are very good with the russians very interested in economic trade with iran.There has probably never been a better time to to try and acquire russian weapons and technology not to mention a host of other things,however the un arms embargo is still in place making a lot of these purchases completely impossible,now this embargo could`ve and should`ve been removed as part of the jcpoa that lifted most un sanctions but sadly it wasnt,now since this was rouhani and zarifs deal you tell me who else should be blamed for this silly "oversight",the supreme leader perhaps?.It seems pretty clear to me that for rouhani and co the military,the space program and the indigenous nuclear program all have very low priorities in his government.
Now I honestly dont know if this time round russia would be more reliable,it might not be,however it is clear at least to me that anti iranian western political influence in russia is probably at its very weakest ever right now and that this is potentially a golden opportunity...or could be,however because of either mistakes[or perhaps deliberate policies,who knows?] rouhani made ie the failure to remove the arms embargo and his continuing preoccupation with trying to do deals with the west while ignoring possible deals with russia ie the russians offering local assembly and coproduction of sukhoi superjets for instance.So sadly I suspect that by the time you might have a government in iran who would be interested in possibly doing a lot of deals with russia,by that time russian-western relations might have recovered and I honestly doubt you`ll get another opportunity like this one again in the near future.
Oh,by the way the kh55s were obtained in 2001 not the 90s,in addition these were supposedly "de-milled" examples that were in very poor condition without any documentation ie operational/service manuals and were supposed to be scrapped,not as you seem to think the very latest soviet weapons and technology all shiny and new available for just a pittance from some greedy arms dealer or corrupt official.
The vast bulk of what was on offer was in fact the older soviet era equipment that was being sold off at fire sale prices like the sa5 and sa6s or the t72s/bmp 1,2s that iran acquired.
In addition it took 14 years of work for iran to reverse/reengineer the kh55 into the soumar,and it still isnt in service yet.So that should give you some idea of the level of work involved in a project like this even if you have examples to "copy" from.

 

[TheImmortal]

Comprehension isnt really one of your strong suites is it my friend?
The russia of yeltsin was in a very pitiful state and basically was pretty limited in both what it could do for iran and what it was willing to do for iran,it certainly wasnt going to alienate itself from the west by selling iran whatever iran wanted and indeed this attitude continued right up until fairly recently.However within the last decade things began to change and relations between russia and the west began to cool tho they really became very frosty with the coup in ukraine and the russians taking back crimea,in addition there was libya and the western support for the terrorists in syria as well.
The simple fact of the matter is this:at this point in time russia western relations are literally the worst they have been since the cold war [russias own words] while iranian russian relations are very good with the russians very interested in economic trade with iran.There has probably never been a better time to to try and acquire russian weapons and technology not to mention a host of other things,however the un arms embargo is still in place making a lot of these purchases completely impossible,now this embargo could`ve and should`ve been removed as part of the jcpoa that lifted most un sanctions but sadly it wasnt,now since this was rouhani and zarifs deal you tell me who else should be blamed for this silly "oversight",the supreme leader perhaps?.It seems pretty clear to me that for rouhani and co the military,the space program and the indigenous nuclear program all have very low priorities in his government.
Now I honestly dont know if this time round russia would be more reliable,it might not be,however it is clear at least to me that anti iranian western political influence in russia is probably at its very weakest ever right now and that this is potentially a golden opportunity...or could be,however because of either mistakes[or perhaps deliberate policies,who knows?] rouhani made ie the failure to remove the arms embargo and his continuing preoccupation with trying to do deals with the west while ignoring possible deals with russia ie the russians offering local assembly and coproduction of sukhoi superjets for instance.So sadly I suspect that by the time you might have a government in iran who would be interested in possibly doing a lot of deals with russia,by that time russian-western relations might have recovered and I honestly doubt you`ll get another opportunity like this one again in the near future.
Oh,by the way the kh55s were obtained in 2001 not the 90s,in addition these were supposedly "de-milled" examples that were in very poor condition without any documentation ie operational/service manuals and were supposed to be scrapped,not as you seem to think the very latest soviet weapons and technology all shiny and new available for just a pittance from some greedy arms dealer or corrupt official.
The vast bulk of what was on offer was in fact the older soviet era equipment that was being sold off at fire sale prices like the sa5 and sa6s or the t72s/bmp 1,2s that iran acquired.
In addition it took 14 years of work for iran to reverse/reengineer the kh55 into the soumar,and it still isnt in service yet.So that should give you some idea of the level of work involved in a project like this even if you have examples to "copy" from.

Again you are basing your entire “Russia has changed policy” on an assumption and hogwash hope. It’s not logical and it’s naive. If Rouhani was naive to trust the West to honor a deal, you are just as naive to think russia will open the arms store for Iran.

Remember that Russia only cares about Russia, the second that Russia tries to sell Iran 50 or 90 SU-30’s the West will give Russia concessions NOT too. And then russia will use Iran to help Russia. This isn’t thecollapse of the Soviet Union, sanctions hurt Russia sure but they aren’t crippling Russia to the point of desperation.

Even in Syria now, Russia is trying to alienate Iran. But it can’t...why? because Iran is doing the fighting on the ground and Russia is in the air. Thus Iran has all the leverage. Yet Russi still refuses to supply its ally Syria with S-300.

Apparently the Iranian S-300 fiasco was too long ago for you to remember. So I will tell you one thing, Russia is desperate to be seen by the US as an equal partner. US knows this. Thus Russia will never sell Iran anything that can be considered “game changer” weapons unless Iran demonstrates it can build it itself.