IRIAF | News and Discussions

[VEVAK]

Not at all. The B-2 as well as the B-21 are subsonic designs. Provided the aircraft is stealthy enough and used properly, supersonic capability will not be required. Supersonic designs also have negative implications for stealth and maintenance, especially of the radar absorbing "skin".

B-2 hasn’t been used against the latest air defense systems/radars created. It was used against banana countries with decrepit military or cave dwelling terrorists.

It’s vulnerable in contested airspace, so please don’t use the “stealth” argument. Any country with high tech interceptors could potentially intercept it. If it manages to penetrate deep into airspace and release its payload, it will quickly find high speed interceptors chasing after it.

The US has F-22’s to protect the B-2 in enemy airspace while the B-2 flies in along with F-35 for suppressing ground targets.

And in fact the B-21 is supposed to have A SPECIFIC FIGHTER DEDICATED TO FLYING WITH IT.

Since in your plan Iran has NEITHER types of planes (5th gen air superiority and all purpose fighter) it shouldn’t create a subsonic enlarged manned RQ-170.

Hence it should go for a Supersonic design, it doesn’t need to be AS “stealthy” as B-2. But if can supercruise at supersonic speed it could easily escape in most situations.

In fact, if Iran opens an R&D project for a hypersonic glide vehicle, maybe it could transfer some of that tech to high supersonic speed bomber that operates at high altitude dropping PGMs.

Or else going for a large subsonic RQ-170 wether manned or unmanned seems a waste of resources when your main Air Force is still in the stone ages.

The concept I am thinking of is to use the bombers as deterrence.

For a large bomber I would always take speed over stealth!!!!!!!!!! And I would equip my bombers with low rcs Air to ground missiles with ranges between 500km to 100km that would 1st go after enemy SAM sites & radar sites 1st to take away the potential threat of SAM & I would use my speed to get in drop my ordnance and get out before their fighters can catchup to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A stealth bomber would have to be relatively blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with no Radar or Jamming capability + against modern militaries they are not as stealthy as they used to be!!!!!!!!!!

Even the Russians didn't bother with them!!!!!!!! Low RCS yes but NOT stealth!

And so far even the U.S. doesn't have supersonic wing design large bomber so to assume that Iran would be able to build a Supersonic bomber size version of the RQ-170 is ridicules because your proposing to building something even the U.S. hasn't built yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I was Iran would attempt to build a larger armed version of the RQ-170 but not a manned bomber size! I would also build high speed decoy UAV & Hi speed UAV's equipped with jamming capability to be used as decoys to allow my bomber to get in and get out!!!!!!!!

But before all that happens for it's Air Force Iran 1st needs purchase a fleet of Air Superiority Fighters to back up it's Air Defense!

But for now Iran's 1st strike retaliatory capabilities with its missile program need to be increased to a point where no one would dare attack Iran out fear of what those missiles can do on the very 1st day of any war with Iran!!

We need our missiles production and accuracy increase to a point where we can afford to fire on & take out 100 targets at a mocked enemy airbase fired upon from 1000km away in a single military exercise using UCAV's, BM, Ground and Air launch Cruise Missiles...…

Sadly the Rohani Administration is clearly not an administration with the wits about them to do this and in terms of the military they are the weakest & the most pathetic Iranian administration I have seen since Bani Sadr!!!

A country like Iran due to it's geographical location and natural resources will NEVER achieve both Peace & Independence without an strong military!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the only way to achieve that is with proper investment in domestic weapons production!!!!!!!

For the next decade Iran every year at VERY LEAST needs to produce or procure
$2Billion USD worth of Ballistic Missiles (200km-2500km)
$2Billion USD worth of Air, Sea & Ground launched cruise missiles (100km-2000km)
$2Billion USD on UAV & UCAV's
$2Billion USD on Air Force Fighter jet production or procurement
$2Billion USD other Air force weapons & projects from Bombs, A2A Missiles, Transport Aircraft, bomber, engine & propulsion R&D and production.....
$2Billion USD on Air Defense Radars, SAM's,.....
$2Billion USD on Infantry gear to ISW from body armor and guns to ATGM
$2Billion USD for the Naval weapons from Ships & Subs to high speed boats to smart mines....
$2Billion USD on Army ground Transport From Safir Jeeps to trucks to IFV to Tanks
$1Billion USD on space program
$1Billion USD on Artillery, MLRS, battel field missiles.... 5km-200km
$1Billion On Helo's & future manned vertical takeoff & landing aircraft
$1Billion On AI, Robotics & future ground based remotely operated intelligent weapons
$1Billion on Cyber defense of offense + computer hardware, software, networking R&D and production
$1Billion on Metallurgy, composite & Nano R&D and production
$1Billion on Chemistry, Explosives, Fuel & batteries R&D and production
$1Billion on New bases, factories and command and control centers
$1Billion on Electronics R&D and production from Optics, Sensors, Coms, BLDC motors,....
$1Billion on Lasers + Directed energy weapons R&D and production
$1Billion on Mapping, intel gathering, target accusation
$1Billion on New tools from industrial robots to 3D printers R&D and production

That's ~$30Billion USD + ~$10 Billion for military paychecks, weapons maintenance & upkeep, food and fuel for a total of $40 Billion USD a year for the next decade

If Iran wants both Peace and Independence that's how you achieve it!

 

[TheImmortal]

And so far even the U.S. doesn't have supersonic wing design large bomber so to assume that Iran would be able to build a Supersonic bomber size version of the RQ-170 is ridicules because your proposing to building something even the U.S. hasn't built yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I was Iran would attempt to build a larger armed version of the RQ-170 but not a manned bomber size! I would also build high speed decoy UAV & Hi speed UAV's equipped with jamming capability to be used as decoys to allow my bomber to get in and get out!!!!!!!!

It’s amazing how you manage to contradict yourself so quickly.

On one hand US doesn’t have supersonic bomber flying wing design, so Iran can’t do it. (With your logic)

Yet on the other hand US also doesn’t have “high speed” (whatever that means) UAVs with jamming capability and decoy capability, but Iran can do it?

Have you thought the reason US doesn’t have a SuperSonic flying wing design is because its military doctrine never required it?

US military doctrine is about delivering large amounts of fire power aboard against Weak countries. Hence why B-52, B-2, B-1 exist.

Against the remaining non West aligned military powers (Russia and China), US relied on nuclear deterrence and massive airforce.

And again your Sci-Fi thinking is absurd and irrational and would drive up the price of such a program by including your “decoys” along with it. While your at it why not ask for iran to develop laser based weapons, a Death Star, military bases on the moon, and fusion nuclear weapons? I mean your suggestions are just out there.

Iran’s UAV capability is limited to range of ground control stations. Where as high speed bomber needs to be able to strike anywhere in the world to be effective deterrence. Any “high speed” UAV decoy would have very limited range for reasons I won’t even mention since it obvious!

And a supersonic flying wing is in Iran’s potential if it works closley on incorporating the type of engines that HGV (hypersonic glide vehicles) use which incorporate a part of their energy from the oxygen in the atmosphere. This will require less fuel to be held on board and thus increasing range to strike anywhere in the world.

Furthermore, a supersonic flying wing design would be kept in control/piloted by computers rather than the human pilots. The human pilots would be there for other reasons much like the B-2.

The Nazi’s with the Ho 2-29 design in 1942 could have flown from Berlin to New York and back at the same speed roughly as a B-2. The Ho 2-29 even had Radar absorbing materials for its time!

The biggest mistake the Nazi war machine did was thinking like Vevak! A bunch of fanciful projects that ate up too much resources and didn’t change the battlefront.

If Nazi war machine concentrated efforts on Ho 2-29 design, nuclear weapons, and nuclear capable ballistic missiles (V-2 successor) they would have won the war by nuking every major allied country and ending WW2 victorious without wasting resources on tons of WunderWaffe projects !

Thus in 2020-2030’s Iran could surely field 4-6 engine flying wing design that would boost the aircraft into supersonic speeds. However, it would require major effort and a clear vision that Iran is committed to becoming an advanced military power.

The future is hypersonic, thus Iran needs to focus on supersonic PGMs, hypersonic engines, lasers, HGVs, and 3D printing to supplement the BM arsenal.

One day BMs will be archaic technology if they aren’t already!

 

[VEVAK]

It’s amazing how you manage to contradict yourself so quickly.

On one hand US doesn’t have supersonic bomber flying wing design, so Iran can’t do it. (With your logic)

Yet on the other hand US also doesn’t have “high speed” (whatever that means) UAVs with jamming capability and decoy capability, but Iran can do it?

Have you thought the reason US doesn’t have a SuperSonic flying wing design is because its military doctrine never required it?

US military doctrine is about delivering large amounts of fire power aboard against Weak countries. Hence why B-52, B-2, B-1 exist.

Against the remaining non West aligned military powers (Russia and China), US relied on nuclear deterrence and massive airforce.

And again your Sci-Fi thinking is absurd and irrational and would drive up the price of such a program by including your “decoys” along with it. While your at it why not ask for iran to develop laser based weapons, a Death Star, military bases on the moon, and fusion nuclear weapons? I mean your suggestions are just out there.

Iran’s UAV capability is limited to range of ground control stations. Where as high speed bomber needs to be able to strike anywhere in the world to be effective deterrence. Any “high speed” UAV decoy would have very limited range for reasons I won’t even mention since it obvious!

And a supersonic flying wing is in Iran’s potential if it works closley on incorporating the type of engines that HGV (hypersonic glide vehicles) use which incorporate a part of their energy from the oxygen in the atmosphere. This will require less fuel to be held on board and thus increasing range to strike anywhere in the world.

Furthermore, a supersonic flying wing design would be kept in control/piloted by computers rather than the human pilots. The human pilots would be there for other reasons much like the B-2.

The Nazi’s with the Ho 2-29 design in 1942 could have flown from Berlin to New York and back at the same speed roughly as a B-2. The Ho 2-29 even had Radar absorbing materials for its time!

The biggest mistake the Nazi war machine did was thinking like Vevak! A bunch of fanciful projects that ate up too much resources and didn’t change the battlefront.

If Nazi war machine concentrated efforts on Ho 2-29 design, nuclear weapons, and nuclear capable ballistic missiles (V-2 successor) they would have won the war by nuking every major allied country and ending WW2 victorious without wasting resources on tons of WunderWaffe projects !

Thus in 2020-2030’s Iran could surely field 4-6 engine flying wing design that would boost the aircraft into supersonic speeds. However, it would require major effort and a clear vision that Iran is committed to becoming an advanced military power.

The future is hypersonic, thus Iran needs to focus on supersonic PGMs, hypersonic engines, lasers, HGVs, and 3D printing to supplement the BM arsenal.

One day BMs will be archaic technology if they aren’t already!

US has used Decoy UAV's for a long time!!!!!!!!! It's nothing new! Neither is putting Jamming on decoy Aircraft and UAV's hell even the MQ-9 that went into production a decade ago has been tested with a Jamming pod! Let alone more modern UAV's! LOL!

Just because YOU haven't heard of something it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!!!!

B-2 isn't Human controlled hell even the F-117 isn't human controlled!!!!!! They use fly by wire systems that translate digitalized commands to various moving parts of the aircraft!!!!

The reason you can't get a flying wing design to go supersonic has to do with various reasons The thickness of the wing relative to the angle of the wing ON TOP of the stability problem with the wing flexibility problem on top of the fuel storage problem!!!!

You can't stick Q-313 wings on top of an F-14 and still remain under the delusion that your going to go supersonic simply because you have powerful supersonic engines!!!!!!!

A large supersonic bomber would require large amount of fuel and in a flying Wing design fuel is distributed throughout the wings!

I'm not saying building a large supersonic bomber without stabilizers is not possible!!!!! Hell 6th gen fighter will also be without stabilizers but what I'm telling you is that a supersonic flying Wing Design that would have anything to do with the RQ-170 design is neither possible nor even practical!!!!!!!!!!

FYI! ALL aircrafts that have jet engines use the oxygen in the atmosphere to burn!!!! That is NOTHING NEW!!!!!!!!!!

LOL! your confusing things!!! A Hypersonic scramjet engines that uses the oxygen in the atmosphere to burn also requires another fuel source!!!!!!!!! And the only time Scramjet engines become practical is when they can achieve extremely high speeds using a short burn time!!!!!!!!!!! Yes they use oxygen to burn but that doesn't mean the oxygen in the atmosphere is their only fuel source! It just means they don't need to carry oxygen or use a compressor to compress the air in the atmosphere!!!!!!!!! LOL!

If you can maintain a average speed of 12,000kph for a 15min burn time you can achieve a range of 3000km vs an aircraft that can maintain an average speed of 2000kph for a 60min burn time which will give it a range of 2000km!!!

So spaceships aside putting Scramjet engines on an Air Frame that tops out at 2000kph WOULD BE ABSURD!

 

[mohsen]

Russia will not provide any 4.5 fighter to Iran or 5th gen, too risky politically and the West has to many pain points on Russia they could exploit.

The best Russia will give is small amount of SU-30 with limited to no ToT.

China is more able to fight political and geopolitical consequences and provide Iran with 4.5-5th gen technology. However, they haven’t shown any inclination in wanting to change balance of power in the Persian gulf. Furthermore, the question remains how much funding Iran could provide for J-31 project.

Iran is dire need of air superiority fighters to eventually take over F-14’s job. Then there next concern is a more all purpose fighter.

If Iran decides to make a RQ-170 bomber like a B-2 esque it would need to have developed much better engine technology as such a bomber would need to cruise at supersonic speeds for better survivability.

If you wanna know Chinese, you should watch "Operation Red Sea 2018" movie, a Chinese state-backed propaganda movie against Yemeni Ansarullah and Iran, as if it has been produced by Israel itself! depicts Ansarullah as savage terrorists who kill civilians for no reason and even doesn't hesitate to put the Symbol of Iranian flag (with a minor change) on the hat of terrorists:

To secure their arms sale to Saudi Arabia the main killer of civilians in Yemen, they don't mind to show their ally as the bad guy. don't expect anything from these double face people, they will sell Iran for less than that.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

For the next decade Iran every year at VERY LEAST needs to produce or procure
$2Billion USD worth of Ballistic Missiles (200km-2500km)
$2Billion USD worth of Air, Sea & Ground launched cruise missiles (100km-2000km)
$2Billion USD on UAV & UCAV's
$2Billion USD on Air Force Fighter jet production or procurement
$2Billion USD other Air force weapons & projects from Bombs, A2A Missiles, Transport Aircraft, bomber, engine & propulsion R&D and production.....
$2Billion USD on Air Defense Radars, SAM's,.....
$2Billion USD on Infantry gear to ISW from body armor and guns to ATGM
$2Billion USD for the Naval weapons from Ships & Subs to high speed boats to smart mines....
$2Billion USD on Army ground Transport From Safir Jeeps to trucks to IFV to Tanks
$1Billion USD on space program
$1Billion USD on Artillery, MLRS, battel field missiles.... 5km-200km
$1Billion On Helo's & future manned vertical takeoff & landing aircraft
$1Billion On AI, Robotics & future ground based remotely operated intelligent weapons
$1Billion on Cyber defense of offense + computer hardware, software, networking R&D and production
$1Billion on Metallurgy, composite & Nano R&D and production
$1Billion on Chemistry, Explosives, Fuel & batteries R&D and production
$1Billion on New bases, factories and command and control centers
$1Billion on Electronics R&D and production from Optics, Sensors, Coms, BLDC motors,....
$1Billion on Lasers + Directed energy weapons R&D and production
$1Billion on Mapping, intel gathering, target accusation
$1Billion on New tools from industrial robots to 3D printers R&D and production

That's ~$30Billion USD + ~$10 Billion for military paychecks, weapons maintenance & upkeep, food and fuel for a total of $40 Billion USD a year for the next decade

If Iran wants both Peace and Independence that's how you achieve it!

From where do you suggest Iran conjure up this $40b p/a to almost triple the current military budget?

 

[VEVAK]

From where do you suggest Iran conjure up this $40b p/a to almost triple the current military budget?

If we want both Peace & INDEPENDANCE that's the price!!!!!!!! And the MOST Important factor is NOT Iran's military but the development of more capable and more advanced Iranian produced products!

Much like the U.S. the foundation of Iran's Technological and Industrial development needs to be through the Military Industry and as long as over 95% of the weapons are produced domestically and the weapons produce are made up of over 95% Iranian built parts and the part are made of over 95% Iranian made materials and minerals mined and produced inside the country with a focus on duel use technology then there is NO harm in spending even more because the more we spend the more we build our own economy!!!!!

If Iran's Military develops an advanced Brushless DC motors equipped with an independent processor, advanced sensors & magnets it will NOT only be Iran's Military that benefits but various civilian industries across the country.....

If Iran's Military develops lithium ion and in the future Graphene based Battery it wont only be Iran's military that benefits but every industry that produces products that require batteries

Whether it be metallurgy or composites or trucks or helicopters or satellites or thermal imaging cameras or 3d printers or AI or Robotics or Jet engines or Naval ships....
The Foundation of Science, Technology and industrial development in Iran needs to come from proper funding in Iran's Domestic Military Industry!! At least if we are after true Independence & Peace then due to our geographic location and natural resources that's what needs to happen!
And yes within the next 10-15 years we can hand many of these responsibilities over to the civilian industry and cut the budget by half but till then that responsibility should be in the Military Industry!

 

[mohsen]

2018 Aug 22
امیر حاتمی : 31 مردادماه (روز صنعت دفاعی) خبرهای خوبی درباره دستاوردهای دفاعی خواهیم داشت
یکی از خبرهای خوب در حوزه هوایی است

 

[Hack-Hook]

2018 Aug 22
امیر حاتمی : 31 مردادماه (روز صنعت دفاعی) خبرهای خوبی درباره دستاوردهای دفاعی خواهیم داشت
یکی از خبرهای خوب در حوزه هوایی است

well it maybe strange but I hope the Good news is not about airplane , rather like it to be showing Something comparable to Aim-120c or AIM-120D.
Fakoor is good but it has its own limits.
another good news is that 50-60kn engine they were talking about.

 

[AmirPatriot]

well it maybe strange but I hope the Good news is not about airplane , rather like it to be showing Something comparable to Aim-120c or AIM-120D.
Fakoor is good but it has its own limits.
another good news is that 50-60kn engine they were talking about.

When and who was talking about a 50-60 kn engine?

 

[Hack-Hook]

When and who was talking about a 50-60 kn engine?

When they showed OWJ they talked about heavy turbofan engine in two year. And now its nearly two years from that date.

 

[AmirPatriot]

When they showed OWJ they talked about heavy turbofan engine in two year. And now its nearly two years from that date.

That's about the same dry thrust of an RD-33.

But they said heavy turbojet engines, and a turbojet of that thrust is the J79, used on the F-4...

 

[Hack-Hook]

That's about the same dry thrust of an RD-33.

But they said heavy turbojet engines, and a turbojet of that thrust is the J79, used on the F-4...

In this farsnews article they talked about Heavy turbojet and Turbofan engine.
https://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950623001151

 

[TheImmortal]

It’s possible Russia gave RD-33 technology to Iran as that engine is now older technology compared to the latest gen engines Russia is providing.

Though a J-79 could also be a possibility since that is an engine that Iran has in its inventory.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

 

[yavar]