Iran's strategic port offer to help India bypass Pakistan

[maxpayne]

Beyond there lies "sunny Afghanistan" and Central Asia.

So yes there is always way around obstacles but it boils down to cost and time. In Pakistan not do we only have the geography but also world class road infrstructure linking the India/Pak/Afghan route.

Now we have to finish off the north south link between China and the Arabian sea. Work is in progess and in a few years we shall be able to also post the pictures of the full link. China Pakistan economic corridor ( CPEC )will fit nicely into this.

So yes we wish Chah Bahar the best. It of course has it 's uses but these compliment Pakistan and DO NOT poise a challange. I see benefits of syngergy here between Iran and Pakistan. So relax people.

WE in Pakistan need to focus and finish off the north south link. We have already completed about 25% so more needs to be done but work is in progress.

The section to Multan M3 is complete and now work on M4 is on. One thing with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is he has got a thing with roads so I expect this link from China to the Arabian sea will also be completed.

Work on M4 to Multan in progress.

So don't forget to factor in the "veg samosa" okay?

Chua gye sarkar. ..

 

[nForce]

Land route to Afghanistan through Pakistan is not possible.
Lot's of terrorists in between.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Let me explain this Scenario...When the real Trade Battle takes place in Central Asia to Russia under the nose of Big Players then costly Indian Grocery will loose its cutting edge after having series of costs infliction

a) Goods Travel Cost to Mumbai Port
b) Port Charges, Loading / unloading to ships
c) Huge Travel to Iran
d) Loading / Unloading again
e) Port Charges Again
d) Huge travel starts again
e) Higher Insurance Cost involved for security of Goods

Above costs are scourge of evading Pakistan, Now after having series of costs involved in Travel still according to Times of India , Travel to Russia via Iran is 30% Less distant and 40% Cheaper then the current Route via sea.
So tell me, who holds the higher Ground??
.
Iam also enjoying the discussion bcoz 6-7 earlier on same PDF, Indians were haunting us for Isolation then now all of sudden things start shifting in positive manner

 

[Tipu7]

pakistan can easily block Iran as ships will be very close to Pakistani waters or in Pakistani waters. i think Iran is turning away from Pakistan. Pakistan needs to do something or else its going to gain another adversary.

Iran must be concerned, not Pakistan........ instead of starting proxy war with Pakistan on ports, then need to join hands with Pakistan on gawadar....... win win for every one. Except India.........

 

[OrionHunter]

Not sure how they gonna reach each other with Pakistan in the middle

Have you heard of the Chabahar port? No? Ok, here it is....

Let me explain this Scenario...When the real Trade Battle takes place in Central Asia to Russia under the nose of Big Players then costly Indian Grocery will loose its cutting edge after having series of costs infliction

a) Goods Travel Cost to Mumbai Port
b) Port Charges, Loading / unloading to ships
c) Huge Travel to Iran
d) Loading / Unloading again
e) Port Charges Again
d) Huge travel starts again
e) Higher Insurance Cost involved for security of Goods

Above costs are scourge of evading Pakistan, Now after having series of costs involved in Travel still according to Times of India , Travel to Russia via Iran is 30% Less distant and 40% Cheaper then the current Route via sea.
So tell me, who holds the higher Ground??
.
Iam also enjoying the discussion bcoz 6-7 earlier on same PDF, Indians were haunting us for Isolation then now all of sudden things start shifting in positive manner

Indian grocery???

Chabahar will give India a direct access to Natural Gas reserves of Central Asian Republics especially Turkmenistan. Chabahar port will also facilitate a multi-modal transport link between Indian west coast ports and Russia via Astrakhan by a strategic partnership between India, Iran and Russia.

So we're talking energy and high value goods not vegetables!!

 

[Dash]

Oh plzzzz . India would desperately want it thru pakistan only,do u know how costly chahbahar is for india, the construction etc and then the transportation costs?

Phlease ... Route only to Afghanistan and goods only to Afghanistan is different from routes to central Asia and goods to and from central Asia.

This route through Pakistan was needed to send rice, wheat and other consumable stuff only to Astan.
Hiwevet Chbahar is more on business terms than just import export stuff.

 

[Serpentine]

Unfortunately, Pakistanis and Indians like to fight over an issue that can be a win-win for both Pakistan and India, only because of their hostility in other areas. This whole Chabahar-Gwadar issue and creating a strong economic corridor (Chabahar-Gwadar), only 160 km from each other, can be a win-win-win situation for all 3 countries, but few people seem to see the bigger picture here.

 

[OrionHunter]

Unfortunately, Pakistanis and Indians like to fight over an issue that can be a win-win for both Pakistan and India, only because of their hostility in other areas. This whole Chabahar-Gwadar issue and creating a strong economic corridor (Chabahar-Gwadar), only 160 km from each other, can be a win-win-win situation for all 3 countries, but few people seem to see the bigger picture here.

The reality is that the Gwadar Port belongs to China not Pakistan! It has been leased out to them for 40 years.

China has taken control of the Pakistani port as part of a drive to secure its own energy and maritime routes that also gives it a potential naval base. It is to serve China's strategic interests, not so much Pakistan's which is just a bit player in this Kashgar-Gwadar CPEC!

 

[Jamwal's]

Let me explain this Scenario...When the real Trade Battle takes place in Central Asia to Russia under the nose of Big Players then costly Indian Grocery will loose its cutting edge after having series of costs infliction

a) Goods Travel Cost to Mumbai Port
b) Port Charges, Loading / unloading to ships
c) Huge Travel to Iran
d) Loading / Unloading again
e) Port Charges Again
d) Huge travel starts again
e) Higher Insurance Cost involved for security of Goods

Above costs are scourge of evading Pakistan, Now after having series of costs involved in Travel still according to Times of India , Travel to Russia via Iran is 30% Less distant and 40% Cheaper then the current Route via sea.
So tell me, who holds the higher Ground??
.
Iam also enjoying the discussion bcoz 6-7 earlier on same PDF, Indians were haunting us for Isolation then now all of sudden things start shifting in positive manner

High ground

As if our Economy would suffer (considering there is no chabahar) if we don't trade with Afghanistan and few poor Central Asian countries.

Buddy even without Chabahar and no trade between the said countries our economic growth is impossible to stop the main objective of connectivity to Central asia is Energy and Strategic purpose as I don't think trade between us could cross $50 billion in coming 20 years.

While trade already between India china is about to touch $100 billion.

 

[MadDog]

Unfortunately, Pakistanis and Indians like to fight over an issue that can be a win-win for both Pakistan and India, only because of their hostility in other areas. This whole Chabahar-Gwadar issue and creating a strong economic corridor (Chabahar-Gwadar), only 160 km from each other, can be a win-win-win situation for all 3 countries, but few people seem to see the bigger picture here.

Agreed sir, people are fighting over it, both ports will result in development of both sides of balochistan, will give Iran route to china, the only concern is India using Iranian soil to help baloch terror outfits , which again is not a possibility since we stayed out of yemen quagmire Iran is not stupid to create a new enemy to its east, but as always Pakistanis and Indians would fight on this forum !!!

 

[lafete]

This is all nonsense.

Afghanistan:
This road link will take India right into the heart of the Taliban stronghold (south Afghanistan). Not sure if the Talib's have forgotten the Indian help to NA. Even Iran now sees the Talib's as a legit force in Afghanistan. A Talib delegation from Qatar recently visited Iran.

Balochistan:
I doubt that the Iranians would be thrilled to see the insurgency getting stronger in Balochistan. In the 70's the Iranian Airforce actually helped Pakistan crush the insurgency inside Pakistani Baloch areas. After all, this Iranian port also lies in the Iranian Baloch areas.

Theology:
The current mess in the Muslim world is due to the Ayatullahs in Iran and the Khawarjites in the Arabian gulf countries. If you look at the Iranian Theologians, they see themselves as the legit rulers of the Muslim world. In fact, during the Iran-Iraq war the Iranian slogan was that the "road to Jerusalem leads through Karabala (iraq)". According to the Theologians, until Iran has full domination over the Muslim World (incl Mecca/Medina), their 8th Imam will not return. Not sure a how a leader of the Muslim world would like to see a Muslim country (Pakistan) get beat up by a non-muslim country (India).

History:
In the 65 war, the Shah of Iran gave the c-130s to Pakistan for free as a gift. The position of the (wanabe leaders) Iran and Saudi has always been the same as far as Kashmir is concerned - side with Muslims (Pakistan). Then in 70s Iran and Pakistan coordinated to crush the Baloch insurgents.

Problem:
The competition between Iran and Pakistan as to who will allow central Asia access to the Sea must end. This was the reason why Afghanistan became a football between these two countries in the 90s. The infrastructure to connect central Asia to Bandar Abbas already exists. The root is shorter than through Af-Pak. Central Asia has cultural links to Iran. And lastly, Afghanistan is not going to become stable any time soon. For Pakistan, even if 60% of the Africa - China trade is routed through Pakistan, the Pakistani infrastructure will not be able to handle it. It is a massive opportunity. All ports, Karachi, Port Qasim and Gwadar together cannot handle all this traffic. So the point it that there is enough for all. Focus on CPEC.

China:
Iran's biggest investment is going to come from China and Germany. China is still their number 1 oil customer. The Chinese owned Oil pipelines in Central Asia will be connected to Iran within 1-2 years. China has stood with Iran through out the last 10 years (India voted against Iran in the UN regarding their nukes). Not sure if Iran would like to piss off China by sabotaging Gwadar.

Iran-Oman (strait Hormouz 22miles) and (bab el-mandeb 18 miles) Under sea tunnel plans:
If the Chinese plans to build these tunnels go ahead then China will get land access to not only the middle east but also Africa. This will create a huge opportunity for Pakistan. A freight Train from Karachi can reach Dubai within 24 hours. Using CPEC, the Chinese will gain fast access to both the Middle east and African markets.

Conclusion:
These two ports (Iranian and Gwadar) will complement each other. Pakistan needs to urgently lay down a train track between Karachi and Gwadar and link it to Iran.

 

[posedion]

If push comes to shove this Mean Man with his Bad boys will also go we are playing a game called Intentions with China we don't operate Aircraft carriers for wallpaper pics, if they got into gwadar we dont want to be far

 

[Sipahi]

Currently all the concerns are useless till the sanctions removes.... What if 5+1 retain sanctions on Iran ??

US congress will debate on this 15 days after that the clear picture will appear.

However Pakistan and Pakistanis don't need to give that importance to Iranian port as we are giving it right now.

We need gas which we will get from IP gas pipline and in future TAP as India want every project excluding Pakistan ... Both Iran Pakistan India and TAPI gas pipeline are not possible unless Pakistan involves

Our only concern is and will be the Indian activities using Iran's Soil but as of now Iran is not seem to do anything like that and I am sure they know that Pakistan is the master of that game, they will face more then what we will face. Afghanistan is a prime example for Iran.

Currently all the concerns are useless till the sanctions removes.... What if 5+1 retain sanctions on Iran ??

US congress will debate on this 15 days after that the clear picture will appear.

However Pakistan and Pakistanis don't need to give that importance to Iranian port as we are giving it right now.

We need gas which we will get from IP gas pipline and in future TAP as India want every project excluding Pakistan ... Both Iran Pakistan India and TAPI gas pipeline are not possible unless Pakistan involves

Our only concern is and will be the Indian activities using Iran's Soil but as of now Iran is not seem to do anything like that and I am sure they know that Pakistan is the master of that game, they will face more then what we will face. Afghanistan is a prime example for Iran.

 

[kez]

All the best. Air and sea is open ...... Good luck !!!
Safer? ISI proxies inside Afghanistan could could easily make then "unsafe" ....

They can't.

Iran's trade and transport lines being built now do not cross Afghanistan - at all. A direct connection from Iran to other Central Asian and West Asian states.


Unless you are suggesting that ISI proxies will make militants attack inside Iran.

Just words. Not to worry relax. We have what the Isreali's call "facts on the ground" that is physical geography. I can only think of two instances of that having been altered. Suez and Panama.

Its all about cost. By air, by sea the bottom line is cost and time. Imagine you live in New Delhi,India. Say you have a friend in Kabul,Afghanistan who want's to try one of your hand made "veg samosa". Let's follow the journey of our "samosa" along the alternative route.

1. New Delhi to Mumbai - Truck 700 miles
2. Mumbai to Chah Bahar - Ship 900 miles
3. Chah Bahar to Kabul - Truck 1,000 miles

That is 1,700 miles by road and another 900 by ship. By the time by your friend in Kabul get's his veg samosa it will be almost week later and will have travelled 2,600 miles. Think also of how many times loading and unloading happened between land-sea-land?

or direct through Pakistan.

1. New Delhi to Islamabad to Kabul. - Truck 650 miles.

Potentially 12 hours later the still warm veg samosa could be in your friends hands in Kabul.

*All distances measured with Google Earth and follow main road networks. Allow error factor 5%. Advice everybody go to Google Earth and see for yourself. Geography can be a b*tch sometimes.

** All the route from Pakistan border (Lahore/Wagah) to Afghan border (Peshawar/Khyber Pass) pass through Pakistan via world standard M1 and M2 Motorways which would take @55mph constant just about 5 hours from border to border. So Afghanistan border is just 5 hours away from India by truck. You think any Chah, Bah or Zah is going to match that?

Afghan border > Peshawar > Islamabad > Lahore > Indian border Motorway maps ( M1 and M2 )

So pay few Rupees at M2 Lahore Toll Plaza arriving from Indian border.

Pay few more Rupees at Islamabad M1 Toll plaza

and you arrive at Peshawar on the border of Afghanistan from India in less than 5 hours.

Afghanistan is not a major market.

The port and associated infrastructure in Iran paves the way for India to trade with Central Asia as a whole.

You remain focused on Afghanistan whereas we want to increase our trade multifold with the whole region of Central Asia.

Let me explain this Scenario...When the real Trade Battle takes place in Central Asia to Russia under the nose of Big Players then costly Indian Grocery will loose its cutting edge after having series of costs infliction

a) Goods Travel Cost to Mumbai Port
b) Port Charges, Loading / unloading to ships
c) Huge Travel to Iran
d) Loading / Unloading again
e) Port Charges Again
d) Huge travel starts again
e) Higher Insurance Cost involved for security of Goods

Above costs are scourge of evading Pakistan, Now after having series of costs involved in Travel still according to Times of India , Travel to Russia via Iran is 30% Less distant and 40% Cheaper then the current Route via sea.
So tell me, who holds the higher Ground??
.
Iam also enjoying the discussion bcoz 6-7 earlier on same PDF, Indians were haunting us for Isolation then now all of sudden things start shifting in positive manner

How stupid are Pakistanis?|
India will never trade with Russia via land routes. Even if Pakistan were to magically open up its country for trade!

Its just too damn expensive!
Long distance trade is always carried through sea! Ever wonder why?

 

[India defense]

Gotta love the Iranians, now that they have the upper hand they are really going to milk the Veggies for 8 Billion before they allow them access, how the tables have turned from the days india was milking iran for oil under sanctions.

nothing comes free...8 billion or 46 billion investment