Iran will have hell to pay: US national security adviser

[VEVAK]

USA supplied little in the way of weapons to Saddam. Iraqi military was Soviet and French equipped.
Some in US government were happy to see Iranians get slaughtered. It was payback for the embassy

In 1991 American troops would have taken Baghadad in a week. Iraqi army pales in comparison to the resistance offered by Germans/Japanese in WW2, Chinese in Korean war and North Vietnamese in Vietnamese war. There is no jungle to protect you in Iraq (for that matter Iraq). The USAF has become increasingly potent

Iran air force top five in the world ?? Keep drinking the hard stuff.

Yes by 1979 and after Iran received it's F-14's Iran's Air Force more powerful then the U.K. Air Force.

Iran had a fleet of 79 F-14's Air Superiority fighters that were the F-22's of that time! Neither Russia, China or Europe were capable of matching it's capabilities at that time!
Iran's Air Force also had 220 F-4's which were the top fighter bombers of that time!
Iran also had almost 300 F-5A/B/E/F
So on paper Iran had 600 Fighters with orders put in for F-16's and plans to buy and even assemble F/A-18 inside Iran which Iran would have gotten if Carter wasn't in power or once Carter left office!
Iranian pilots were all highly trained by the U.S.

So when I say Iran had the 5th strongest Air Force in the world I'm really not making things up! Back then in terms of numbers it was U.S., Russia, China, U.K., France and then Iran! And Iran was competing with France and U.K. for 4th place and in terms of Air to Air capabilities Iranian F-14's made Iran stronger than both and a handful of supersonic bombers and AWACs would of put Iran ahead of both!

Iran's Helo Force was nearly 1000 strong which made it the 3rd largest Helo force in the WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

But when push came to shove all that equipment didn't mean much of anything after the U.S. was kicked out because the Air Force became short on Spare Parts & Weapons for it's aircraft relatively quickly and so they lacked a sufficient number of, spare parts, trained maintenance technicians and weapons to keep a good portion of it's fleet in the Air conducting strikes every day so after the 1st year an Air Force that on paper had 600 fighter jets couldn't even keep 1/10 of it's fighters in the Air every day after the 1st year.

And yes Iran could of also taken Bagdad in a week during the Shah if Iran was the one who started the war and had taken Saddam by surprise with an initial blitz attack with intel, maintenance, spare parts & weapons coming from the U.S. BUT IRAN Didn't start the WAR and Iran had just had a revolution and Iran was just putting the country back together and didn't even have time to properly restructure the military and Iranian leaders never for one second thought that Saddam would be crazy enough to invade hell they even went so far as arresting Air Force personal for creating propaganda when they kept warning the leadership of the buildup of Iraqi forces on the boarder! So yea Iran's NEW leadership was completely caught off guard.

And no U.S. didn't sell weapons to Iraq, the Saudi's, Kuwait & few other Arab states gave Saddam $80 Billion USD because by 1982 Saddam was losing badly!! Saddam had lost it's Air Force, Navy & his armored battalion was on the run and retreating day after day.
What the U.S. did for Saddam was provide intel from the position and activities of Iranian troops to the activities of Iran's Air Force & during the end the U.S. military actually engaged Iran's Navy because Saddam had No Navy to fight with. So U.S. didn't simply sit back and watch!

 

[Hack-Hook]

What the U.S. did for Saddam was provide intel from the position and activities of Iranian troops to the activities of Iran's Air Force & during the end the U.S. military actually engaged Iran's Navy because Saddam had No Navy to fight with. So U.S. didn't simply sit back and watch!

you forget protecting Saddam in UNSC

 

[nahtanbob]

Yes by 1979 and after Iran received it's F-14's Iran's Air Force more powerful then the U.K. Air Force.

Iran had a fleet of 79 F-14's Air Superiority fighters that were the F-22's of that time! Neither Russia, China or Europe were capable of matching it's capabilities at that time!
Iran's Air Force also had 220 F-4's which were the top fighter bombers of that time!
Iran also had almost 300 F-5A/B/E/F
So on paper Iran had 600 Fighters with orders put in for F-16's and plans to buy and even assemble F/A-18 inside Iran which Iran would have gotten if Carter wasn't in power or once Carter left office!
Iranian pilots were all highly trained by the U.S.

So when I say Iran had the 5th strongest Air Force in the world I'm really not making things up! Back then in terms of numbers it was U.S., Russia, China, U.K., France and then Iran! And Iran was competing with France and U.K. for 4th place and in terms of Air to Air capabilities Iranian F-14's made Iran stronger than both and a handful of supersonic bombers and AWACs would of put Iran ahead of both!

Iran's Helo Force was nearly 1000 strong which made it the 3rd largest Helo force in the WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

But when push came to shove all that equipment didn't mean much of anything after the U.S. was kicked out because the Air Force became short on Spare Parts & Weapons for it's aircraft relatively quickly and so they lacked a sufficient number of, spare parts, trained maintenance technicians and weapons to keep a good portion of it's fleet in the Air conducting strikes every day so after the 1st year an Air Force that on paper had 600 fighter jets couldn't even keep 1/10 of it's fighters in the Air every day after the 1st year.

And yes Iran could of also taken Bagdad in a week during the Shah if Iran was the one who started the war and had taken Saddam by surprise with an initial blitz attack with intel, maintenance, spare parts & weapons coming from the U.S. BUT IRAN Didn't start the WAR and Iran had just had a revolution and Iran was just putting the country back together and didn't even have time to properly restructure the military and Iranian leaders never for one second thought that Saddam would be crazy enough to invade hell they even went so far as arresting Air Force personal for creating propaganda when they kept warning the leadership of the buildup of Iraqi forces on the boarder! So yea Iran's NEW leadership was completely caught off guard.

And no U.S. didn't sell weapons to Iraq, the Saudi's, Kuwait & few other Arab states gave Saddam $80 Billion USD because by 1982 Saddam was losing badly!! Saddam had lost it's Air Force, Navy & his armored battalion was on the run and retreating day after day.
What the U.S. did for Saddam was provide intel from the position and activities of Iranian troops to the activities of Iran's Air Force & during the end the U.S. military actually engaged Iran's Navy because Saddam had No Navy to fight with. So U.S. didn't simply sit back and watch!

Iranian pilots were well trained. Most of the well trained pilots were either executed or exiled. A lot of them left the country after the revolution. Iranian maintenance crews were third rate. this was the assessment of Colin Powell who visited Iran before the revolution.

Iranian army lacks the logistics capabilities to take Iraqi capital

Iranian leaders were no angels. They were calling for a revolution to overthrow Saddam. They expelled Iraqi ambassador.

only against weakest countries @nahtanbob

@VEVAK is saying in late 70s, Iran air force was among top 5 @nahtanbob

with American spares and help

 

[Ultima Thule]

with American spares and help

yes, So what's your point @nahtanbob

 

[Oldman1]

Yea because Iraq was so powerful that it's front lines couldn't even cross a freaking road against Iran with 5 times the tanks force!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

And in Desert Storm Iraqi troops that were near the boarder and invading Kuwait gave up because they were carpet bombed by B-52's which had little to do with Iraqi SAM's!

Why did they give up? Why the Iraqi troops pulled out of Kuwait?

And U.S. forces ran inside of Iraq and ran out quickly because they knew they wouldn't be able to hold those area's for long and the entire thing lasted about 100 HOURS! And they were mainly trying to get Iraq to fully withdraw from Kuwait while most of Iraqi armored battalion was deployed near Kuwait and coalition forces crossed miles of desert from Saudi Arabia and invaded and withdrew very quickly from the other side of Iraq!

It lasted for 100 hours because thats how long the fight was on the ground. Especially when considering the Highway of death.

U.S. bombardment started in January 17th 1991 and the war ended in Feb 28th 1991 with coalition invasion on Feb 24th 1991 & 4 day's later the war ended with a ceasefire after which U.S. came up with a plan to invade Iraq and came up with nonsense excuses to start bombing Iraqi Air Defense and military facilities and depots and that started in 1992 and went on to 2003 with a decade of bombings and sorties being flown 3-4 times a week until the U.S. felt confident enough to properly invade!

Couple of months bombing, years of bombing, decades. Wouldn't matter. Thats war 101.

Since WW2 the U.S. has not gone to war with ANY country capable of producing a large portion of it's yearly military acquisitions let alone a country capable of targeting U.S. Aircraft bunkers from 700km away using it's own weapons

Yes since WW2 because nobody wants to. Japan was the only one willing to attack the U.S. first.

And your comparing Saddam's military where vast majority of it's weapons were purchased for them post 1982 by the Saudi's and couldn't even maintain the weapons given to them let alone produce new weapons and Iran was no different at that time we also had a nicely purchased Air Force, Helo Force and Navy we could barely arm and maintain!

In terms of military power the weapons platform you buy mean little unless you can maintain and arm them at will when needed and by 1979 Iran had purchased it's self one of the top 5 most powerful Air Forces in the world with one of the top 3 most powerful Helo Forces but without the U.S. providing parts, weapons and maintenance it didn't mean much because IF Iran could have actually maintained and armed it's own fighters and Helos in the early 80's the war would have ended by 1983 and Saddam's military would have been wiped and Saddam would have been killed or on the run!

And that was the lesson Iran learned so today Iran produces it's own weapons and imports little for it's military:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_manufactured_in_Iran

And that is real power and not fictional figures on paper that says you have this many fighter, Tanks, helicopters, SAM's....

Wouldn't matter much since in any possible war, you would target its production of war material. Just like on Japan when it was able to make its own weaponry at the time. It was no different. Even if Saddam has that capability, it would be destroyed.

You're brain washed by your media, go research yourself @Oldman1

Enlighten me. How many air to air kills against the U.S. Air Force and Navy? So most of the aircraft shot down were from air to air instead of the formidable SAM system that I've mentioned?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Enlighten me. How many air to air kills against the U.S. Air Force and Navy? So most of the aircraft shot down were from air to air instead of the formidable SAM system that I've mentioned?

i have no responsibility to feed you, you have net go research yourself, and keep blabbering Formidable shit SAM system, they are very old air defense system, if USAF can't go through these very old vintage SAMs and lose dozens of jets that's shows how incapable USAF were unable to defeat these old vintage SAMs/air defense system useless SAMs of 50s and 60s @Oldman1

keep blabbering about your FORMIDABLE SHIT SAMS SYSTEM again again @Oldman1 you have nothing to say but just face saving @Oldman1

 

[VEVAK]

Why did they give up? Why the Iraqi troops pulled out of Kuwait?


It lasted for 100 hours because thats how long the fight was on the ground. Especially when considering the Highway of death.

Couple of months bombing, years of bombing, decades. Wouldn't matter. Thats war 101.


Yes since WW2 because nobody wants to. Japan was the only one willing to attack the U.S. first.


Wouldn't matter much since in any possible war, you would target its production of war material. Just like on Japan when it was able to make its own weaponry at the time. It was no different. Even if Saddam has that capability, it would be destroyed.


Enlighten me. How many air to air kills against the U.S. Air Force and Navy? So most of the aircraft shot down were from air to air instead of the formidable SAM system that I've mentioned?

With what Air Force was Saddam going to engage the U.S.??? Haven't you been listening? Just having fighter jets in your fleet means NOTHING without the ability to maintain and arm them! It's nothing but figures on a paper which militarily makes you nothing more than a paper tiger! And paper tigers only have the power to do the bidding of their masters!
Saddam's Maintenance capabilities was far worse off than Iran's! Foreigners helping him left before 1990 with the Soviet union on the brinks of collapse and the French were part of the invading coalition forces and Saddam's Air Force was fully aware of this and that's why they had their fighters flying off to other countries including Iran of all places!

Saddam Air Force after 8 years only managed to achieve ~ 30 confirmed Air to Air victories against Iranian fighter jets in 8 years and about half were F-5's whos radar capabilities didn't go beyond visible range.
And Saddam wouldn't of needed to resort to firing Ballistic Missiles with CEP of a few kilometers at Iran if his Air Force had the capability to do anything of worth!

So if you factor F-5's out of the picture that's 2 Air to Air kills against Iranian fighter jets a year now factor out Iran's lack of access to parts and A2A weapons and Iraq's inability to maintain a good portion of it's fighters in 91 and you'll see why he didn't have a bunch of Air to Air kills in a war that lasted a month and an invasion that lasted 4 day's all while Iraq's military was engaged in another war against Kuwait.

And you ask why Iraqi troops pulled out of Kuwait? Really? The U.S. gave Saddam the go ahead to invade Kuwait and shortly after he does and pulls most of his military towards that area the U.S. invades the country from the other side! What did you want them to do? Continue invading Kuwait while half the world was invading Iraq?
In 91 coalition forces practically invaded Iraq unchallenged all along the Saudi-Iraq boarder and yes U.S. engaged Iraqi battalions in vary few area's mostly by the Saudi-Kuwait boarder with troops from various Arab countries but by the most part except for a few instances they went in unchallenged. And Iraqi forces near the boarder by Kuwait got carpet bombed by B-52's but that has nothing to do with Iraqi SAM's





And it wasn't just the U.S.! It was a coalition of various countries!

Iran has so far hacked & down U.S. RQ-170, MQ-1C, Scan Eagle, RQ-7 Shadow, RQ-11 Raven...

Iran is NOT Iraq of 1990's and Iran sure as hell does NOT want a war but if attacked Iran within minutes Iran has both the accuracy and missile stockpile to wipe out at least 24 U.S. bases within 700km of Iran without using a single fighter jet with Missiles whos accuracy have already been proven on the field​

Iran has the capability to target U.S. puppet leaders in Kuwait, UAE & Riyadh and take out their oil facilities and target major U.S. financial interests

Iran has the capability to take out any warships, oil tankers or cargo vessels it chooses inside the Persian Gulf without needing to resort to mining the entire Persian Gulf

If attacked Iran has both the experienced infantry & the weapons needed to turn the entire M.E. into hell for U.S. forces

So yea U.S. conflicts with Saddam doesn't really prove anything for Saddam really couldn't do any of those things

 

[Oldman1]

i have no responsibility to feed you, you have net go research yourself, and keep blabbering Formidable shit SAM system, they are very old air defense system, if USAF can't go through these very old vintage SAMs and lose dozens of jets that's shows how incapable USAF were unable to defeat these old vintage SAMs/air defense system useless SAMs of 50s and 60s @Oldman1

keep blabbering about your FORMIDABLE SHIT SAMS SYSTEM again again @Oldman1 you have nothing to say but just face saving @Oldman1

You blabber alot about most of the aircraft shot down by Iraqi pilots instead of the SAM system. If you can't prove it, you just a liar.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You blabber alot about most of the aircraft shot down by Iraqi pilots instead of the SAM system. If you can't prove it, you just a liar.

the main point of my post they have vintage air defense systems of 50s and 60s that shows the USAF how incapable of defeating those vintage SAMs in 90 @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

With what Air Force was Saddam going to engage the U.S.??? Haven't you been listening? Just having fighter jets in your fleet means NOTHING without the ability to maintain and arm them! It's nothing but figures on a paper which militarily makes you nothing more than a paper tiger! And paper tigers only have the power to do the bidding of their masters!
Saddam's Maintenance capabilities was far worse off than Iran's! Foreigners helping him left before 1990 with the Soviet union on the brinks of collapse and the French were part of the invading coalition forces and Saddam's Air Force was fully aware of this and that's why they had their fighters flying off to other countries including Iran of all places!

The U.S. has the ability to maintain and arm them. You've seen the constant bombings from WW2 to modern times.

And you ask why Iraqi troops pulled out of Kuwait? Really? The U.S. gave Saddam the go ahead to invade Kuwait and shortly after he does and pulls most of his military towards that area the U.S. invades the country from the other side! What did you want them to do? Continue invading Kuwait while half the world was invading Iraq?
In 91 coalition forces practically invaded Iraq unchallenged all along the Saudi-Iraq boarder and yes U.S. engaged Iraqi battalions in vary few area's mostly by the Saudi-Kuwait boarder with troops from various Arab countries but by the most part except for a few instances they went in unchallenged. And Iraqi forces near the boarder by Kuwait got carpet bombed by B-52's but that has nothing to do with Iraqi SAM's

I don't know where you get the idea that the U.S. gave Saddam the go ahead to invade Kuwait. That is a myth.





And it wasn't just the U.S.! It was a coalition of various countries!
View attachment 504917


Iran has so far hacked & down U.S. RQ-170, MQ-1C, Scan Eagle, RQ-7 Shadow, RQ-11 Raven...

Iran is NOT Iraq of 1990's and Iran sure as hell does NOT want a war but if attacked Iran within minutes Iran has both the accuracy and missile stockpile to wipe out at least 24 U.S. bases within 700km of Iran without using a single fighter jet with Missiles whos accuracy have already been proven on the field​

Iran has the capability to target U.S. puppet leaders in Kuwait, UAE & Riyadh and take out their oil facilities and target major U.S. financial interests

Iran has the capability to take out any warships, oil tankers or cargo vessels it chooses inside the Persian Gulf without needing to resort to mining the entire Persian Gulf

If attacked Iran has both the experienced infantry & the weapons needed to turn the entire M.E. into hell for U.S. forces

So yea U.S. conflicts with Saddam doesn't really prove anything for Saddam really couldn't do any of those things[/QUOTE]

You don't have enough platforms to fire tens of thousands of missiles to to wipe out very large bases and considering the defenses involved as well. And considering provoking countries by attacking them, you just make it worse for yourselves. Just like you posting the coalition attacks. You be repeating the same mistake.

the main point of my post they have vintage air defense systems of 50s and 60s that shows the USAF how incapable of defeating those vintage SAMs in 90 @Oldman1

And you claimed most of the aircraft shot down was from air to air attacks from Iraqi pilots. Not the SAM system you say.

 

[Ultima Thule]

And you claimed most of the aircraft shot down was from air to air attacks from Iraqi pilots. Not the SAM system you say.

The whole Iraqi military was outdated at the time of first gulf war, and you says they have FORMIDABLE AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM, what joke this is @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

The whole Iraqi military was outdated at the time of first gulf war, and you says they have FORMIDABLE AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM, what joke this is @Oldman1

So called outdated shot down dozens of aircraft. Not to mention fighting 8 year war with Iran.

 

[Ultima Thule]

So called outdated shot down dozens of aircraft. Not to mention fighting 8 year war with Iran.

Those assets mostly destroyed in Iran-Iraq war @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

Those assets mostly destroyed in Iran-Iraq war @Oldman1

Destroyed assets don't down dozens of aircraft.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Destroyed assets don't down dozens of aircraft.

This was incapabilities of USAF who unable to defeat these vintage SAMs system of 50s and 60s @Oldman1