Iran Kowsar Jet Surprise (production line)

[drmeson]

If the new radar used on the Kowsar indeed has a range of 80-100km against fighter sized targets then Iran needs to develop a new Medium range air to air missile( compact enough to mount at least 2 on Kowsar ) to exploit its radar's BVR capability.

It is that. Its Iranian pulse doppler FCR equivalent of 200 Watts Grifo-L, KLJ-6F or KLJ-7, EL/M-2032.

You are right. Iran needs something on lines of RVV-AE (Active radar Homing) and RVV-T (passive IR). Kowsar or future Kowsar variants can carry 4 of these missiles and fire them all at BVR ranges and leave the area.

 

[raptor22]

Iran doesn't produce a processor worth using in it's military equipment! And so what if a camera or a processor is imported???? Just because Iran need's a few thousand cameras or processor for it's military on a yearly bases doesn't mean Iran has to start producing camera's and even if we do it doesn't mean the tech will be sufficient for military use compared to imported Cam's from countries that have been in the business of building cam's and processor for nearly half a century! And until our own tech gets to a point where using an Iranian tech wouldn't make a difference then the MOST logical thing to do is to use an imported one!



More like foreign pressure and lack of priority and funding for it for it requires a lot of money to get it going.....
In terms of technology If you can produce Aluminum and have the technology to build centrifuges for Uranium enrichment then technologically you would have NO problem producing Ti and Fact is Iran has produced Ti on a small scale for well over a decade now but to be able to produce fighters it needs to be produced at an industrial scale and you need massive Ti alloy composite block even for a proper R&D program....

People don't realize that when your sanctioned and something as simple as Ti alloy has to be smuggled into Iran how severely that effects a countries fighter program and the ability to build better engines and airframes
even for a proper R&D program that goes beyond simple design....

For Iran without being able to produce Ti alloy composites on an industrial scale you can not really move towards producing a capable Airframe or engine and Ti production is one of the most vital infrastructures that would be needed to have a capable fighter program. And that's something most countries can simply import for R&D while we have to produce our own which take time and money and lots of it!

You know if the Titanium production facility is finalized yet? how much we produce per year? base on @TheImmortal post we've enough resources hope they invest in it ..

Iran has 3.6 Billion tons in Titanium reserves alone in Sistan-Bal province.

https://financialtribune.com/articl...31528/southeast-iran-s-huge-titanium-reserves

Like I told you before, IRGC could build its own Titanium plants (if it hasn’t already).

Iran has access to the raw materials, it just needs the investment which is substantial (billions).

It’s no secret that military sector is typically ahead of public sector in technology.

Wether Iran’s military has already set up titanium production facilities in anyone of its many military research bases is unknown.

 

[Tps43]

I have serious doubt over Iran's tech regarding electronics and chip making, what exactly they are doing is buying commercial civilian electronic products and use them in different projects....

Iranian crashed drone shows it was build using nikkon camera....

Ching chong choo

 

[Ray_Atek]

If the new radar used on the Kowsar indeed has a range of 80-100km against fighter sized targets then Iran needs to develop a new Medium range air to air missile( compact enough to mount at least 2 on Kowsar ) to exploit its radar's BVR capability.

There are some reason that compatible with your idea:

1- Deleting V-type tail as was in Saeqeh and choosing single tail in kowsar for less drag may be has choosed Air2Air role for kowsar and CAS and training are secondaries.

2- The Fakour-90 Air2Air missile obtained to install on all planform whit bvr capability and Kowsar is one of them.

3- Kowsar has twin cockpit to have better performance for Air2Air role.

4- In group Air superity operation may a f-14 act in center of two or three kowsar to componsate Kowsar`s radar limit.

5- Each AIM-54 Phonix weight is less than 500 kg and Kowsar can carry four of them with two sidewinder easily.

SO KOWSAR CONSENTRATED TO HAVE AIR TO AIR ROLE.

 

[scimitar19]

4- In group Air superity operation may a f-14 act in center of two or three kowsar to componsate Kowsar`s radar limit.

5- Each AIM-54 Phonix weight is less than 500 kg and Kowsar can carry four of them with two sidewinder easily.

Interesting points, with this setup F-14 can act as a mini AWACS that will use its advanced long range radar and kowsars can be playing role of airborne AIM 54 launchers, and after they launch missiles they can switch to escort F-14 fighter role...

 

[Ray_Atek]

Interesting points, with this setup F-14 can act as a mini AWACS that will use its advanced long range radar and kowsars can be playing role of airborne AIM 54 launchers, and after they launch missiles they can switch to escort F-14 fighter role...

Data link bring it to real operation

 

[Hack-Hook]

2- The Fakour-90 Air2Air missile obtained to install on all planform whit bvr capability and Kowsar is one of them.

3- Kowsar has twin cockpit to have better performance for Air2Air role.

5- Each AIM-54 Phonix weight is less than 500 kg and Kowsar can carry four of them with two sidewinder easily.

if in hell become Zamharir then you see they put 4 AIM-54 on Kowsar ( AIM-54 and AN/AWG-9 or AN/APG-71 are a single platform and you cant separate them), the platform maybe able to carry Fakour on the innermost pylon but unless we reduce the weight and size of the missile to something like AIM-120 ,you'll never see it on Kowsar regularly and no Kowsar at most can carry 2 of the Fakour missile.

and there is a far better reason for Kowsar to have 2 seat and that's if the trainee make some mistake the teacher intervene and stop a disaster and show the guy what was his mistake. in short it has two seat because its an advanced trainer and like most advanced trainers it has limited air to air capabilities and can be used in CAS role.

 

[VEVAK]

You know if the Titanium production facility is finalized yet? how much we produce per year? base on @TheImmortal post we've enough resources hope they invest in it ..

Yes they need to invest in it and I don't know how well refined the Ti they are making is but Iran doesn't just need Ti, Iran needs Grade 5 Ti and Grade 5 Nickel.... As for TI we need to get highly refined Ti and develop grade 5 Ti composite out of it and we would need massive vacuumed oven presses to build strong bulkheads
Ti Grades
http://www.supraalloys.com/titanium-grades.php

Iran is working toward coming up with various alloys and composites required in producing fighter engines and Airframes BUT it is NOT easy or cheap or something that can be accomplished in a short time regardless of Iran's technological capabilities but is current investments sufficient No they are not!

Something like Magnesium that was required in producing Airframe Ti composites wasn't being produced in Iran until ~3 years ago

Overall it looks like they are slowly moving towards that direction but are we there yet No I don't believe we are and we still need a lot more investment in that regard.

 

[Ray_Atek]

if in hell become Zamharir then you see they put 4 AIM-54 on Kowsar ( AIM-54 and AN/AWG-9 or AN/APG-71 are a single platform and you cant separate them), the platform maybe able to carry Fakour on the innermost pylon but unless we reduce the weight and size of the missile to something like AIM-120 ,you'll never see it on Kowsar regularly and no Kowsar at most can carry 2 of the Fakour missile.

and there is a far better reason for Kowsar to have 2 seat and that's if the trainee make some mistake the teacher intervene and stop a disaster and show the guy what was his mistake. in short it has two seat because its an advanced trainer and like most advanced trainers it has limited air to air capabilities and can be used in CAS role.

It is possible
Some modification needed to install two of fakour near center of belly and other two near rear landing gear.
But you are right about the fakour weight may be iran made r-73, r-27 or AIM 120 can install more easily but that does not change the item.
Kowsar can act as good Air to Air planform.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It is possible
Some modification needed to install two of fakour near center of belly and other two near rear landing gear.
But you are right about the fakour weight may be iran made r-73, r-27 or AIM 120 can install more easily but that does not change the item.
Kowsar can act as good Air to Air planform.

that will make havoc in the plane Aerodynamic and weight balance, you can put two on innermost pylon and probably one under the belly of the plane , any place else put too much stress on the air-frame and F5 air-frame is rather soft compared to other airplane (let just say it's just like the infamous Saipa car that its wheels are more suitable for bicycle . ) but if you do that you can't carry any tanker with you as only the three central pylon have necessary pipes to use the tankers and that alone severely reduce your range and speed and gave the enemy the chance to out run you .

 

[Ray_Atek]

that will make havoc in the plane Aerodynamic and weight balance, you can put two on innermost pylon and probably one under the belly of the plane , any place else put too much stress on the air-frame and F5 air-frame is rather soft compared to other airplane (let just say it's just like the infamous Saipa car that its wheels are more suitable for bicycle . ) but if you do that you can't carry any tanker with you as only the three central pylon have necessary pipes to use the tankers and that alone severely reduce your range and speed and gave the enemy the chance to out run you .

We are speaking on the possiblity of kowsar action role in Air to Air missions,howerver it need modification in fuslege structure same as what happened in gripen upgrading project, kowsar can carry six Air to Air missile and keeping fuel tank also.
Optimizing the kowsar performance not very hard, Iran has some option to arrange the missiles to do that.
Fater or sidewinder type as low range, r73 ,r27 as mid range and fakour90 as mid to long range and because of iran capability to manufacturing them inside the country and has open hand to modifying them, it is possible to optimize kowsar planform for Air to Air role easily, without any change to engines.
And another unknown item in kowsar project is specification of owj engine, has been told that this engine can carry a 10 ton airplane with 50000 feet as cieling limit, adding one stage to j-85 compressor can expand the hand to go to Air to Air role.

 

[Hack-Hook]

We are speaking on the possiblity of kowsar action role in Air to Air missions,howerver it need modification in fuslege structure same as what happened in gripen upgrading project, kowsar can carry six Air to Air missile and keeping fuel tank also.

the dilemma is that only pylon stations 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumbed and only those pylon can carry heavy weight armament and on the wingtip you only can carry missile in class of sidewinder ,so the only solution for the use you want is use sidewinder or something like that on wing tip and then build something as light as AIM-120 to use on Pylon 2 & 6 and then then use a tank on Pylon 4 for some additional fuel then remain pylon 3 and 5 if the range is important then you have no choice but to use them for tanks or if not then again for A2A missiles with the weight of less than 200kg.
but again the second configuration with 5 A2A missile and only one tank give any decent fighter/bomber the chance to outrun you because you lack the range

 

[Ray_Atek]

the dilemma is that only pylon stations 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumbed and only those pylon can carry heavy weight armament

Just experts know that which you mentioned.
Ofcource it is, but Non wet-plumbed pylon does not mean for light weight armanent.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Just experts know that which you mentioned.
Ofcource it is, but Non wet-plumbed pylon does not mean for light weight armanent.

no they are not for example non of Su-30 hard-point are wet plumbed but they can carry heavy weight , what i say is just physics , pylon 3 & 4 & 5 are the central and the two pylon adjacent to the body so they put a lot less stress on the body and wing if you put heavier weapon on them, you see the more you go away from the body, heavier weight put a lot more stress on the body it simply follow law of levers. guess this explain it better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

 

[Beast]

Actually, I applaud Iranian effort in this project. It may not be the most advance fighter comparable to modern current generation of fighter but it's 100percent Indigenous effort. I dare to claim only a few out of 5 fingers counted countries can carry out this project 100% by their pure own effort.

Unlike many ambition aviation project which aim too high or depend on join venture where the real transfer of know how to another will be limited. Given that they do not have any previous experience of design and building fighter jets.