Iran has two months until Azerbaijan prescribes polo to itself

[ASQ-1918]

Usual nutjobs trolling I see. Too bad I wasn't around.

A very retarded comment of "beyondheretic": "The origins of polo are crystal clear to anyone with a bit of common sense , the afghans still play polo with a dead goat , it is a sport of cavalry and it was played in large flat terrain , so it was definitely introduced by scythians of central asia to iran , not Azerbaijani mountain men."

Azerbaijanis are mountain men? Thats new to me. And don't forget to check a topographic maps of both Afghanistan and Azerbaijan, and where the populations mostly lives. The mountainous areas of Azerbaijan (at borders mostly) are either populated by minorities, or are uninnhabited. But Azerbaijan are actually very flat.

Azerbaijani Turks were always renown for their horseman skills in Russian Imperial army (either as allies during 1700-1800s, or as actual horseman divisions of Imperial Army), and participated in many militay campaigns of Russians. The cavalry force of Qajar army was always from Azerbaijani tribes. And what about the Safavid army, an army which had Azerbaijani Turkish as its standard language, the greatest army in Iran in a millenium? A retard like you surely doesn't know the nomadic past and traditions of Azerbaijani Turks either, but they still live on, see Shahsevens. The example you gave, which exists in Azerbaijan, was brought by Turkic tribes to Afghanistan. FYI, there are a big number of Turkmens and Uzbeks there.

This game is called Çövkən in Azerbaijan and is very popular, so get your facts straight.

About the of retardation Surenas, there is nothing to say. No one even takes you seriously, and your primitive arguments cannot hold any ground anyhwere. You reject any sensible counter arguments and just repeat your childish BS like a broken record. And then there is Indian guy or who acts like one, who continues to post pan-Iranian bullshit. Should I post theories of our scholars who advocates that Sumerians were Turkic? And don't worry, they also have some thesises. LOL. Just get the hell out, just because some guy with bias says some BS doesn't means its true. This is common sense.

And rmi5, please hold your opinions to yourself, and just because you have to emphasize your Iranian national identity doesn't means you have to denounce your Turkic identity, this is a problem. The people of Iranian Azerbaijan has a firm identity of being Turks, for God's sake isn't that how Persians call them? And they themselves? I have explained the term of "Azeri" and its origin, usage hundreds of times here. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Turks of Azerbaijan, this was invented in late 19th century in Iran. Otherwise feel free to bring examples of the mention of such a ethnicity from Qajar or earlier times. Qajars themselves were Azerbaijani Turks, if you told them they were "Azeris" they would probably laugh at you. You only have to go back to hundred years ago, thats all. It didn't exist back then. And now its usage is still only secondary to the more popular term of "Turk".

You can be a proud Iranian and a proud Turk at the same time, don't worry. Otherwise you are only insulting yourself in front of others. What is one of the biggest problems with Turks in Iran? The rights of their language. You are repeating the Shahi era propaganda, perhaps even without being aware of it.

 

[ASQ-1918]

This is a poem of Dr.Zohtabi from the middle of 20th century.

Su deyibdir mənə əvvəldə anam, ab ki yoх,
Yuхu öyrətdi uşaqlıqda mənə, хab ki yoх.
İlk dəfə ki, çörək verdi mənə, nan demədi,
Əzəlində mənə duzdanə, nəməkdan demədi.

My mother said "Su" to me, not "Ab" (water)
She tought me "Yuxu", not "Xab" (sleep)
She gave a "çörək" to me, not "Nan" (bread)

Anam əхtər deməyibdir mənə, ulduz deyib o,
Su donanda deməyibdir yəхdi bala, buz deyib o.
Qar deyib, bərf deməyib, dəst deməyib, əl deyib o,
Mənə heç vaхt biya söyləməyib, gəl deyib o.

She never said "Axtar", she said "Ulduz" (star)
When the water froze she didn't say "yax", she said "Buz" (Ice)
She said "Qar", not "Baf" (Wnow), she said "Əl", not "Dast" (Hand)

Yaхşı хatırlayıram, yaz günü aхşam çağılar,
Bağçanın günçıхanında ki, ilıq gün yayıla.
Gəl deyərdi darayım başıvı, ey nazlı bala,
Gəlməsən gər bacıvun astaca zülfün dararam.

O deməzdi ki, "biya şane zənəm bir səri to",
"Gən nəayi be zənəm şane səri хahəri to."
Daş yağsa da göydən, sən osan, mən də buyam,
Var sənin başqa anan, vardı mənim başqa anam.

She didn't say "biya shane zanam bar sari to, gan naayi be zanam share sahari to",
she said: "Gəl darayım başıvı ey nazlı bala, gəlməsən gər bacıvun astaca zülfün dararam".

Even if it rained stones from the sky, you are that, and I'm this!
You have a different mother, as do I.

Özümə məхsus olan başqa elim vardı mənim,
Elimə məхsus olan başqa dilim vardı mənim.
İstəsən qardaş olaq, bir yaşayaq, birlik edək,
Veribən qol-qola bundan sonra bir yolda gedək.

I have a different nation that belongs to me,
I have a different language that belongs to my nation.
If you want brotherhood, living together, unification,
Lets hold hands together and go the same way.

Özgə küləklərlə gərək aхmayasan,
Varlığıma, хalqıma хor baхmayasan.
Yoхsa gər zor deyəsən, millətimi хar edəsən,
Gün gələr səhifə çönər, məcbur olarsan gedəsən.

You shouldn't get carried away by foreign winds,
You shouldn't insult my existence and my people.
If you opress and insult my people,
The day will come in which you will have to leave.

Sorry for the overall English, but I tried to translate in simpliest way. Anyway, this is the words of Azerbaijani Turks, you should listen to it.

Now my dear friend, you don't have a right to call yourself an Azerbaijani before respecting your mother language! This is the language your ancestors always spoke, it wasn't "brought to them" as the Shahi propaganda insisted. Say that to someone in Iranian Azerbaijan and they would rip you apart, or anyone else, I'm sure. And also never forget your identity. Iranian is a nationality, not a ethnicity! Otherwise Persians will always see you at a lower level and insult you if you don't respect yourself in first place, as surenas did in the other thread.

 

[rmi5]

This subject has been discussed before and its thread has been locked before.
maybe @Serpentine needs to close the thread again.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Yes, he should. I just had to say something. And my dear friend, I'm only trying to tell you the right way. Respect yourself first of all, and others will respect you. When you don't respect your language, it means you don't respect your ancestors in first place, then how can you claim to be one of us in first place?

And these things like said will never prevent you from being a Iranian, which is a nationality.

 

[rmi5]

Yes, he should. I just had to say something. And my dear friend, I'm only trying to tell you the right way. Respect yourself first of all, and others will respect you. When you don't respect your language, it means you don't respect your ancestors in first place, then how can you claim to be one of us in first place?

And these things like said will never prevent you from being a Iranian, which is a nationality.

I think you have got me wrong. when did I said I don't respect my ethnicity?
BTW, Qajars were a Turkmen tribe and one of twelve Qizilbash tribes. They were not Azerbaijani.

 

[ASQ-1918]

See your posts in other thread.

My friend, you are deeply mistaken about some things it seems, but let me correct you, and I'm sure you will get some comon sense, as you are not a troll I suppose.

Azerbaijani was a term invented by Soviet regime, and "Azeri" was a term invented by Shahi regime, respectively. No one was an Azerbaijani or Azeri before 20th century. But, Qajars were "Azerbaijani" as in modern-day Azerbaijani Turks. Turkmen was a general term applied to all of Oghuz Turks, including then population of Azerbaijan. They spoke Azerbaijani Turkish (read some Iranian sources, they tell it clearly that the language of Qajars is same as the province of Azerbaijan, and their ancestrial and linguistical links to Azerbaijan region was the reason why Qajar princes resided in Azerbaijan, other then that there are poems written by Qajar kings, you can see that they call their language as "Turki", which is Azerbaijani Turkish), not Central Asian Turkmen, they were Shia Qizilbash, such thing was never found and is not found among Central Asian Turkmens, they were never and are not Shia, not even those in Iran. And I see that there is some confusion with regards to their later geographic presence which was to north-east of Iran, but they were relocated to that area from Azerbaijan, and more precisely from Caucasian Azerbaijan by Shah Abbas. Read the history of Qajar tribe, they were from Ganja region. Their Qizilbash origin is the most important indication as to why they were Azerbaijani Turks, and not Central Asian Turkmen. I think you at least know that Safavids spoke Azerbaijani Turkish, which was also the language they used to communicate with Qizilbash tribes (actually the vast presence and dominance of Qizilbash tribes in Safavid empire must have made a direct link to the usage of Azerbaijani Turkish in Safavid Empire). The language of Safavid army, I.E Qizilbash, was Azerbaijani Turkish. Common sense.

Oh, and people in western regions of Azerbaijan are still called "Tarakama", which is derived from "Turkmen". Tarakama term was actually applied to all of Azerbaijani Turks of Caucasia in 19th century, but somehow it was reduced to western region only. Might be because there is a stronger tribal feeling in that area, and you can see that they are still semi-nomadic actually.

 

[rmi5]

See your posts in other thread.

My friend, you are deeply mistaken about some things it seems, but let me correct you, and I'm sure you will get some comon sense, as you are not a troll I suppose.

Azerbaijani was a term invented by Soviet regime, and "Azeri" was a term invented by Shahi regime, respectively. No one was an Azerbaijani or Azeri before 20th century. But, Qajars were "Azerbaijani" as in modern-day Azerbaijani Turks. Turkmen was a general term applied to all of Oghuz Turks, including then population of Azerbaijan. They spoke Azerbaijani Turkish (read some Iranian sources, they tell it clearly that the language of Qajars is same as the province of Azerbaijan, and their ancestry and linguistial links to Azerbaijan region was the reason why Qajar princes resided in Azerbaijan), not Central Asian Turkmen, they were Shia Qizilbash, such thing was never found and is not found among Central Asian Turkmens, they were never and are not Shia, not even those in Iran. And I see that there is some confusion with regards to their later geographic presence which was to north-east of Iran, but they were relocated to that area from Azerbaijan, and more precisely from Caucasian Azerbaijan by Shah Abbas. Read the history of Qajar tribe, they were from Ganja region. Their Qizilbash origin is the most important indication for why they were Azerbaijani Turks, and not Central Asian Turkmen. I think you at least know that Safavids spoke Azerbaijani Turkish, which was also the language they used to communicate with Qizilbash tribes (actually the vast presence and dominance of Qizilbash tribes in Safavid empire must have made a direct link to the usage of Azerbaijani Turkish by them). The language of Safavid army, I.E Qizilbash, was Azerbaijani Turkish. Common sense.

Oh, and people in western regions of Azerbaijan are still called "Tarakama", which is derived from "Turkmen", so like said this was a term that applied to us aswell.

3 points:
1) I agree that the term Azeri is a new invented term
2)I don't agree about the term Azerbaijani. >> what's your reason?
3)Actually my mom's family are partly from Qajars, but I have heard from them that the tribe were in Gorgan or Mazandaran, and our tribe has always been called turkmen, although we look like azerbaijanis and not turkmens. Honestly, it is still confusing for me.

 

[ASQ-1918]

I explained about the Turkmen term, all of us are Turkmen in a sense. Oghuz Turks = Turkmen. Turkmen had a broader meaning. Iraqi Turkmens are also Turkmens, but their langauge is actually a dialect of Azerbaijani Turkish, not Central Asian Turkmen.

And Qajars still exist to this day, their language is recognized as Azerbaijani:

http://multitree.org/codes/azb-qaj

It should not be confusing at all, the language is the key here. I also explained the history of Qajars aswell, they are from Azerbaijan originally. They were relocated to that particular area by Shah Abbas.

 

[rmi5]

I explained about the Turkmen term, all of us are Turkmen in a sense. Oghuz Turks = Turkmen. Turkmen is like Turk, it has a broader meaning.

What about the term Azerbaijani? why did you say this term is invented by russians?

 

[ASQ-1918]

Well, it really was. Because it does not appear in Russian Empire or the first decade of Soviet rule. Also, no Azerbaijani writer from 19th century or early 20th century use that term. They all recognize themselves as Turks only. In 1926 census of Soviet Union we were listed as "Turks", suddenly in 1936 we turned to "Azerbaijanis". This was a policy of Stalin, as the relations between Soviet Union and Turkey got tense. Also, Stalin wanted to lay claim on Iranian Azerbaijan and unite it with Soviet Azerbaijan, that might be another reason.

 

[rmi5]

Well, it really was. Because it does not appear in Russian Empire or the first decade of Soviet rule. In 1926 census of Soviet Union we are listed as "Turks", suddenly in 1936 we turned to "Azerbaijanis".

I cannot consider a credit for this. because russians were calling kazakhs az kyrgyz to avoid confusion with "kazakhs of Ukrine" who are different people, and they were calling kyrgyz people az kara-kyrgyz I guess. So, maybe russians had mistakenly categorized us before, and they have corrected it later. The same as what they did about kazakhs and kyrgyz people.
but the term Azerbaijan is a very old term. So, its not surprising if residents of azerbaijan called as Azeri.

 

[ASQ-1918]

No, Russians incorrectly categorized us as Tatars first, that was incorrect. When Russian Empire collapsed and Soviet Union was restablished, they correctly re-categorized us as Turks (like your Kazakh example, they gained Kazakh name with the establishment of Soviet Union), until 1936. But as I tell you, no Azerbaijani writer from that era use such a term.

Turks of Azerbaijan never had that term, either used by themselves or by others. I don't have to repeat that Persians themselves recognize us as Turks, and did so all the time.

 

[rmi5]

Also, Stalin wanted to lay claim on Iranian Azerbaijan and unite it with Soviet Azerbaijan, that might be another reason.

I do not agree. Actually, that's what some pan-farsists say. My friend, note that even if the region was called Aran or whatever , it does not mean that its people are not Azerbaijani.

 

[ASQ-1918]

I'm talking about the ethnic term, not the region. Pan-Iranists talk about the name of the region. A regional name is just a regional name, nothing to do with ethnicity. But as you see, our ethnic name was derived from a regional name. Goes to show how incorrect it is in first place. It should actually be a nationality, like Iranian, not an ethnicity. That way it would be correct.

 

[rmi5]

No, Russians incorrectly categorized us as Tatars first, that was incorrect. When Russian Empire collapsed and Soviet Union was restablished, they correctly re-categorized us as Turks (like your Kazakh example, they gained Kazakh name with the establishment of Soviet Union), until 1936. But as I tell you, no Azerbaijani writer from that era use such a term.
Turks of Azerbaijan never had that term, either used by themselves or by others. I don't have to repeat that Persians themselves recognize us as Turks, and did so all the time.

honestly, I don't care what persians call us. they even think that mazandaranis and gilanis are persians, while it is not true, and they are caucasian people who are more close to us than persians.
So, what about Kasravi? he has some books and articles about azerbaijan. and he was living at that era.