Introducing - JF-17 Thunder Block - II

[Khafee]

Hi,

I would be concerned more about the EW suite and missiles.

American are proving over and over that as long you have a superior EW suite---you have a superior aircraft---.

And to prove that---they have the F35.

And then to top it off---the americans have also shown---it is not only the primary aircraft ( 5th gen ) that is important---it is also the complimentary aircraft / the supporting aircraft that will cause more havoc thru their standoff weapons when they are guided by the primary aircraft.

So---it has become more of a team issue---. What can one team do better than the other team overall. It is not about " that " one pilot anymore---even though it will still be the deciding factor---but it is not about the ONE MAN glory factor.

Sir, what is the "minor" chink, in that great armour?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, what is the "minor" chink, in that great armour?

Hi,

I don't know---please tell us.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

I don't know---please tell us.

A missile with an IR seeker, at Mach 4+, with it's receivers switched off, after launch.

It can differentiate between the actual aircraft, decoys, chaff & flares, pre / after launch it locks on, and that is that.

 

[Sinnerman108]

A missile with an IR seeker, at Mach 4+, with it's receivers switched off, after launch.

It can differentiate between the actual aircraft, decoys, chaff & flares, pre / after launch it locks on, and that is that.

Dear the amount of processing required to do that at Mach 4, defeats and negates the other things you are claiming the missile is capable of.

 

[Khafee]

Dear the amount of processing required to do that at Mach 4, defeats and negates the other things you are claiming the missile is capable of.

Thank You for enlightening me, I will inform the morons who are wasting millions perfecting it..

 

[muhammadali233]

Don't you think PAF is lying about "many" things regarding Jf17?
Engine Max thrust to name one .......

Engine Thrust is lowered to favour more hours,at max thrust it has the lowest engine life.At around 81kN it is the most "benefit-full" with good thrust and engine life,this is what it is sold at.
PAF is not lying even their technician is more knowledgeable then most lot here talking crap on pdf,it is you who has no insights and has never seen and been in one.

 

[MastanKhan]

A missile with an IR seeker, at Mach 4+, with it's receivers switched off, after launch.

It can differentiate between the actual aircraft, decoys, chaff & flares, pre / after launch it locks on, and that is that.

Hi,

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

 

[Tipu7]

Let's think in "Indian way" for a while.
Give me proof, if you give, fine. Otherwise you are lying........

Proof that Jf17 is BVR capable? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can fire C802? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can carry LGB? Test video? Pic?
What is Jf17 pure air to air configuration? Pic? Video?
What is Jf17 pure air to ground configuration? Pic? Video?
Proof that Jf17 is capable of carrying and firing anti radiation & stand off munition? Test video? Pic?
Jf17 can refuel in air, proof? Refueling from Il78.......
Proof about CM400AKG?

I have seen pics / videos of Jf17 carrying and dropping un guided bombs, WVR missiles and gun ........ that's it. Rest all dummy test missiles ......

Where is "proof" of rest?
Should we believe what ever PAF officials are saying ? Or as a Pakistani it's our right to SHOW proof of your claim since it is not a strategic secret.......

Do remember, HOPES were high for Blk 1, it failed to full fill our those color ful dreams which were shown by PAF to all of us. Same can be said about Blk2 ....... and who knows to how much level Blk3 will full fill our Dreams & expectations........

Now plz, prove me wrong and show me something ..........
I do have the right to ask,...... so does rest of people who always expect PAF to fly high in sky and repeating its dominance over enemy like it did in past........

 

[SQ8]

Let's think in "Indian way" for a while.
Give me proof, if you give, fine. Otherwise you are lying........

Proof that Jf17 is BVR capable? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can fire C802? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can carry LGB? Test video? Pic?
What is Jf17 pure air to air configuration? Pic? Video?
What is Jf17 pure air to ground configuration? Pic? Video?
Proof that Jf17 is capable of carrying and firing anti radiation & stand off munition? Test video? Pic?
Jf17 can refuel in air, proof? Refueling from Il78.......
Proof about CM400AKG?

I have seen pics / videos of Jf17 carrying and dropping un guided bombs, WVR missiles and gun ........ that's it. Rest all dummy test missiles ......

Where is "proof" of rest?
Should we believe what ever PAF officials are saying ? Or as a Pakistani it's our right to SHOW proof of your claim since it is not a strategic secret.......

Do remember, HOPES were high for Blk 1, it failed to full fill our those color ful dreams which were shown by PAF to all of us. Same can be said about Blk2 ....... and who knows to how much level Blk3 will full fill our Dreams & expectations........

Now plz, prove me wrong and show me something ..........
I do have the right to ask,...... so does rest of people who always expect PAF to fly high in sky and repeating its dominance over enemy like it did in past........

That would make sense if the structure in Pakistan had anything on accountability available for military projects.
So far, we know nothing. For e.g. do you have any proof of RAM tile testing carried out by the PAF in the mid to late 90's? None, but it had a near operational scenario test. @Bilal Khan 777 Would I be exaggerating then?

 

[Super Falcon]

RD 93 engines if not replaced it is not good for our JF 17 Due to its smoke trace which this engine leaves slightly behind and do not offer lower heat source to heat seeking missiles

Currently MIG29K using RD 33 Engines which are not only fuel sufficient but provide better performance than RD 93
Other option can be J 10 Engine tooo

 

[MastanKhan]

Let's think in "Indian way" for a while.
Give me proof, if you give, fine. Otherwise you are lying........

Proof that Jf17 is BVR capable? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can fire C802? Test video? Pic?
Proof that Jf17 can carry LGB? Test video? Pic?
What is Jf17 pure air to air configuration? Pic? Video?
What is Jf17 pure air to ground configuration? Pic? Video?
Proof that Jf17 is capable of carrying and firing anti radiation & stand off munition? Test video? Pic?
Jf17 can refuel in air, proof? Refueling from Il78.......
Proof about CM400AKG?

I have seen pics / videos of Jf17 carrying and dropping un guided bombs, WVR missiles and gun ........ that's it. Rest all dummy test missiles ......

Where is "proof" of rest?
Should we believe what ever PAF officials are saying ? Or as a Pakistani it's our right to SHOW proof of your claim since it is not a strategic secret.......

Do remember, HOPES were high for Blk 1, it failed to full fill our those color ful dreams which were shown by PAF to all of us. Same can be said about Blk2 ....... and who knows to how much level Blk3 will full fill our Dreams & expectations........

Now plz, prove me wrong and show me something ..........
I do have the right to ask,...... so does rest of people who always expect PAF to fly high in sky and repeating its dominance over enemy like it did in past........

Hi,

They hide it because when people will know of it---they will ask questions---and would want to know about the shortcoming.

And then they will ask to " DO MORE ".

 

[ghazi768]

A missile with an IR seeker, at Mach 4+, with it's receivers switched off, after launch.

It can differentiate between the actual aircraft, decoys, chaff & flares, pre / after launch it locks on, and that is that.

Which missile you are mentioning?

RD 93 engines if not replaced it is not good for our JF 17 Due to its smoke trace which this engine leaves slightly behind and do not offer lower heat source to heat seeking missiles

Currently MIG29K using RD 33 Engines which are not only fuel sufficient but provide better performance than RD 93
Other option can be J 10 Engine tooo

Yes, smoke is an issue but not for heat detection, smoke by itself do not increase chances of detection by IR. In fact using smoke to hide or degrade radar and laser based detection is a tried and tested method and I think is used in naval operations as well as ground operations such as tanks but is un-usable in aircrafts
.
Almost all jet engines gives some smoke when their afterburners are turned off, if you watch different videos of many air crafts you can see smoke trails at times when they turn on/off AB but RD 33/93 gives excessive smoke. This can be an issue in visual detection and a pilot therefore has to be careful to engage/disengage afterburner just before getting near to enemy, disengaging afterburner at that time may result in smoke and increases chances of detection. With coming digital control system this issue will get sorted too.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

They hide it because when people will know of it---they will ask questions---and would want to know about the shortcoming.

And then they will ask to " DO MORE ".

That is one side of the coin. The other side is that when developing a product, there will always be shortcomings, but recognizing them and overcoming them successfully is the key. PAF have no doubt come up with a very potent platform.

 

[Tipu7]

The current WMD07 targeting pod is latest example.
When the news of Pakistan seeking new pod was out, no one believed on it. As there was solid "believe" on PAF claims that Pod is integrated & operational with Jf17 despite of fact that we have never seen JF17 flying with Targeting pod and laser guided munition ......
You can call it "trust break" or what ever ......
PAF need to be CLEAR about its approach.....
Just take Tejas as example here..... why no pic of Jf17 in such configuration out there? Why we are still "parking" missiles and sub systems in static display ?

That is one side of the coin. The other side is that when developing a product, there will always be shortcomings, but recognizing them and overcoming them successfully is the key. PAF have no doubt come up with a very potent platform.

 

[MastanKhan]

That is one side of the coin. The other side is that when developing a product, there will always be shortcomings, but recognizing them and overcoming them successfully is the key. PAF have no doubt come up with a very potent platform.

Hi,

I agree with you wholeheartedly---but as they say that proof is in the pudding---we have been waiting for a long time for the pudding.

The current WMD07 targeting pod is latest example.
When the news of Pakistan seeking new pod was out, no one believed on it. As there was solid "believe" on PAF claims that Pod is integrated & operational with Jf17 despite of fact that we have never seen JF17 flying with Targeting pod and laser guided munition ......
You can call it "trust break" or what ever ......
PAF need to be CLEAR about its approach.....
Just take Tejas as example here..... why no pic of Jf17 in such configuration out there? Why we are still "parking" missiles and sub systems in static display ?

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Hi,

The news about the pod was in ' bad taste '---. Paf thought that to make the american product look important---it was okay to thrash the chinese product to get a sympathy vote from the americans---and it did not work.

So---what if there was no other pod available---there would be praises for the WMD7.

Paf just simply does not like to show off actual missiles---or weapons on its aircraft.