INS Vikramaditya commissioned

[anjaneyashruti]

@sancho Your picture shows the smaller lift has parking anchors for 2 Migs. The forward lift has part of the runway painted on it.

So it is safe to assume of the total 14 place (12 TP + 2 TTp) on the TP (Top Parking ?) 3 might not be used for normal operations during peace time. i.e. a total of 11 Migs on top without blocking the lifts.

Now considering the hanger Load of either 13 or 10 Migs based on the Russian hanger layout, the Possible combination of Mig 29 carried is either 11 + 10 = 21 or 11 + 13 = 24.

Total Helis carried would be either 7 ASW (Ka-28) + 4 AEW (Ka-31) = 13 or 4 ASW (Ka-28) + 2 AEW (Ka-31) = 6

So the normal load of Viki becomes either 34 Aircraft's or 30 Aircraft's depending on the configuration.

In which case its maximum Full load during War becomes +3 (2TP + 1 TTP) i.e. either 37 (with 24 Migs) or 33 (with 27 Migs) Aircrafts.

 

[Contrarian]

Confronted with your frivolity, you are again accusing me. I think it is your comprehension which is questioned here. Have you studied in RSS run shishu-mandir schools - so it seems.

No Pal.
Unlike Pakistan we dont have mandatory madrassa and madrassa like classes.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Its a best seller in India.
I know what is written in the book. The implications you are drawing from whats written are wrong.

I do believe you also validated my statement about Pakistan's education system. And consequently the comprehension capabilities of the fine folks over there.

It is a best-seller in the Fiction Category, as a work of sheer Fantasy!!
Just like the stuff being dished out here by our own "Meluhahaha Man" AKA Nassr.
When he gets reminded of that poppy-cock; then he reverts to the fall-back tactic that is used so often from the other side. Very Pavlovian !

Ah; "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"........

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Ever wonder how Big the Vikramaditya was ? Here is something that will give you a sense of proportion

 

[Jai_Hind]

Livefist: VIDEO: Ka-27 Night Trials On Vikramaditya


Livefist: EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: INS Vikramaditya Firing Trials

 

[IND151]

Livefist: EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: INS Vikramaditya Firing Trials

@sancho Your picture shows the smaller lift has parking anchors for 2 Migs. The forward lift has part of the runway painted on it.

So it is safe to assume of the total 14 place (12 TP + 2 TTp) on the TP (Top Parking ?) 3 might not be used for normal operations during peace time. i.e. a total of 11 Migs on top without blocking the lifts.

Now considering the hanger Load of either 13 or 10 Migs based on the Russian hanger layout, the Possible combination of Mig 29 carried is either 11 + 10 = 21 or 11 + 13 = 24.

Total Helis carried would be either 7 ASW (Ka-28) + 4 AEW (Ka-31) = 13 or 4 ASW (Ka-28) + 2 AEW (Ka-31) = 6

So the normal load of Viki becomes either 34 Aircraft's or 30 Aircraft's depending on the configuration.

In which case its maximum Full load during War becomes +3 (2TP + 1 TTP) i.e. either 37 (with 24 Migs) or 33 (with 27 Migs) Aircrafts.

Thanks for info.

BTW what is the source for this image? Official?

 

[IND151]

If I may answer.....

Dude everything is NOT on paper always. eg India doesn't have S-300 officially , Israel isn't a nuclear state and so on


Many things are kept under carpet but some got leaked and always denied by all parties.
As @Capt.Popeye said Yes Kitty hawk was offereed by USA with air elements. That doent mean it was going to be transffered with the Nimitz class techs. And would have strings attached too. Some also say that it was offered so that F-18 could get a boost in MMRCA.

It was rejected by IN
- couldnt afford the total package.
- IN was/is not happy with the strings.
- TOT would have been zero so have to have depend on US for everything.
- cost of operating a N-Carrier is more than conventional one

If you look back to 2008 its the same period when Bush became pro-India and was the same time when Nuclear deal was being dissucssed. India is only country to have that ( for many reasons ) with USA backing it up.

How hard is it for US to decommission and water down a carrier to offer it to India ???
And Russia getting hands on US techs is total BS then why in world US sell india C-17/C-130/Apache/P-8Is ??? Are they outdated ???

2008 was the time when US-Pak relations were on the verge rupture. So all things were possible and it would have been worth billions of dollar deal. So it was total gain for US .... Even more than India.

?????? KH is conventionally powered.

 

[Sergi]

?????? KH is conventionally powered.

You are asking me or telling me

Matter of fact another member asked the same question and I replied him.
It was about Nimitz class Tech that can be used from kitty. One would use it in N-ACC ( best in class ) thats why that was the separate point otherwise point 1 and 4 are the same. Cost.

I should have be more brief while writing that

 

[sancho]

@sancho Your picture shows the smaller lift has parking anchors for 2 Migs. The forward lift has part of the runway painted on it.

It doesn't, that are the markings of TP 7 and 8 and shows how far a fighter would reach over the lift, which is why it couldn't be used if these spots are blocked by fighters:

This model shows all 12 parkingspots, the 2 take off spots, as well as all helicopter take off and landing spots. TP 7 and 8 are next to the rear lift and the space actually was used for missile launchers at the Gorshkov, which is why the space now is limited and why fighters would reach over the lift. So although it is possible to use these 12 spots for fighters in theory, practically it doesn't make sense to block the lift, which makes it more likely to use helicopters there.
TP 4 and 5 most likely will be used to park or move vehicles on the deck:

(Vikramaditya left, Viraat right)

So practically you might have TP1 to 4, 6 and 9 to 12 for fighters, TP5 free for vehicles, TP7 and 8 for helicopters. The internal

Now considering the hanger Load of either 13 or 10 Migs based on the Russian hanger layout

As I showed, the number on the deck spots is far lower than the old plans (which are not even showing the deck changes) or your earlier calculations showed (12 at max instead of 17) and practically the number of fighters on deck might be even less. The hangar size / layout needs to be seen as well, I don't think the fighters and helicopters would be parked in such a mixed config, where you have to move 2 fighters around, just to get 2 helicopters out. However 10 - 12 fighters + some helicopters seems to be possible, which still brings the total number of aircrafts only around 30.

 

[Sergi]

while it's questionable if the take off spots will be used during landings.

.

Sorry if a silly question but I didnt understand this.
If carrier is expecting a fighter to land wouldnt it be the same fighter that took off from the deck from the said take off spot !!!

 

[sancho]

Sorry if a silly question but I didnt understand this.
If carrier is expecting a fighter to land wouldnt it be the same fighter that took off from the deck from the said take off spot !!!

No, you can have fighters ready for take of in A2A configs, while another one in tanker config comes back from it's mission, but simultaneous take offs and landings are not possible with this STOBAR config and keeping the fighters in take off position could be dangerous if something goes wrong with the landing.

 

[kaykay]

@sancho according to Prasun sen gupta, It's typical load would be 20 Mig-29Ks + 8 Helos(4 aew+4 asw) during normal operations. Though theoratically it can carry more.

 

[Sergi]

No, you can have fighters ready for take of in A2A configs, while another one in tanker config comes back from it's mission, but simultaneous take offs and landings are not possible with this STOBAR config and keeping the fighters in take off position could be dangerous if something goes wrong with the landing.

No i didnt mean that.
Suppose we are having 15 jets (?) on deck and 1/2 on said take off( short /long) spot. If carrier need to send any jet wouldnt it be the jet on takeoff spot ??? So first two in air doing their mission while if we need to send more in air the other can follow them. Or just those 2 are sufficient rest will stay as is and those two return back for landing.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

It doesn't, that are the markings of TP 7 and 8 and shows how far a fighter would reach over the lift, which is why it couldn't be used if these spots are blocked by fighters:

Which is what I meant. I was in a hurry so was careless about my language.

This model shows all 12 parkingspots, the 2 take off spots, as well as all helicopter take off and landing spots. TP 7 and 8 are next to the rear lift and the space actually was used for missile launchers at the Gorshkov, which is why the space now is limited and why fighters would reach over the lift. So although it is possible to use these 12 spots for fighters in theory, practically it doesn't make sense to block the lift, which makes it more likely to use helicopters there.
TP 4 and 5 most likely will be used to park or move vehicles on the deck:

So practically you might have TP1 to 4, 6 and 9 to 12 for fighters, TP5 free for vehicles, TP7 and 8 for helicopters. The internal

Viki is unlikely to sport Heli on the Top. That would probably be outsourced to the carrier support group which can do the job just as efficiently. It would be far more sensible to keep the top stacked with Jets.

The Fuel truck and movers will probably be parked behind the Island. If you observe there is enough space between aircrafts parked in the front of the Island for the movers to pass easily. I suspect this space is provided for such operations.

In any case the heli's can use the forward elevator which can accommodate 2 Helis together if required.

As I showed, the number on the deck spots is far lower than the old plans (which are not even showing the deck changes) or your earlier calculations showed (12 at max instead of 17) and practically the number of fighters on deck might be even less. The hangar size / layout needs to be seen as well, I don't think the fighters and helicopters would be parked in such a mixed config, where you have to move 2 fighters around, just to get 2 helicopters out. However 10 - 12 fighters + some helicopters seems to be possible, which still brings the total number of aircrafts only around 30.

The hanger layout is unlikely to be changed as it is not easy to accommodate such changes. We have no idea if the smaller elevator has been rated to lift Mig, but if you observe closely a Mig can just about snugly fit in it.

With the top carrying 11 Migs and time required for launching all of them, there will be enough time to move around aircrafts in the hanger to reach the lift. However if you observe, that would not be required if the smaller elevator is rated to carry heavier load.

In any case all this is speculation so no point it going round in circles trying to prove otherwise.

 

[sancho]

If carrier need to send any jet wouldnt it be the jet on takeoff spot ???

If they are meant to take off, of course, but the point was, that we can't take these take off positions as parking spots like the other 12 TP spots. anjaneyashruti included the take off positions for the total number of aircrafts and that is not likely.

So first two in air doing their mission while if we need to send more in air the other can follow them

Exactly, but as I said, they might not wait at the take off positions, but at the parking spots to keep the runway free for landing of other aircrafts.

@sancho according to Prasun sen gupta, It's typical load would be 20 Mig-29Ks + 8 Helos(4 aew+4 asw) during normal operations. Though theoratically it can carry more.

I think of a similar mix, although we still wait and see what type of aircrafts really will be used. Mig 29K and Ka 31 is clear so far, Ka 27 and Sea Kings possible, but not useful use 2 different aircrafts in the same roles. Naval Dhruvs or Cheetaks could be used for utility roles and might not need too much space.

Viki is unlikely to sport Heli on the Top. That would probably be outsourced to the carrier support group which can do the job just as efficiently. It would be far more sensible to keep the top stacked with Jets.

For ASW yes, but not for AEW, SAR, or utility roles which every aircraft carrier has. So even if it wouldn't carry a single ASW helicopter, it needs at least an AEW helicopter at deck in case of a problem with one that is on a mission and one for SAR operations.

If you observe there is enough space between aircrafts parked in the front of the Island for the movers to pass easily. I suspect this space is provided for such operations.

That's because the TP4 spot was free, if 4 x aircrafts are parked in the front, you can't move vehicles from the back around. Infact to move the aircrafts, you already need them in the front!

In any case all this is speculation so no point it going round in circles trying to prove otherwise.

That's why I don't consider these plans or graphics as reliable, since nearly all of them that we have seen in the last few years were different. The marking in the decks and the parking positions however, can be seen now at the pics and videos we have and clearly are the most reliable sources for the deck config.