Indonesia Defence Forum

[Alex898]

No wonder if Korea is very happy with your "free cash" to support their "national proud" project ......and I can't also understand why you "accepted" its "term and condition" ,,,

just the way chinese are happy that you're buying their ships (KD Keris) and then they still get free tickets to poke through your EEZ? you dont say.

 

[Indos]

Us presidential election 2016: Hillary will likely to win.
Trump: now I am gonna do what's called a pro gamer move.
Everyone: surpised pikachu face.png

Hillary did win if every vote is equal, but US election system is quite weird and complicated. It is not fair actually that the vote in some states has more worth than in other states. So I always feel our democracy system is better than USA.

 

[san.geuk]

Yup, it should. There is intention to bring InfoGlobal to make the cockpit and PT LEN Industry for IFF. Info Global itself has shown its IFX cockpit version in 2016 Indodefense (I forgot the actual year)

Just for the folks here who are not satisfied with the KFX/IFX work share, even when PTDI has Join Venture with CASA and it is 50:50 %, PTDI also dont get TOT and workshare of subsystem, just getting design experience and produce the airframe. Similar thing happen with 50:50 % JV between Pakistan and China in JF17. It is because the subsystem development are not part of the development cost.

There is actually 4 core technology that are being developed by Korea, particularly Hanwa like AESA radar. And if it is part of development cost, so I think Indonesia should get 20 % TOT and work share on that. But IMO we should keep 20% stake of the program and it should be paid by cash, not some ridiculous barter. Our defense budget is enough to finance our financial contribution.

in my simple word we pay contribution 20% share cost just to studying how to build jet fighter airframe and and sokor will give us 1 prototype, but we can't access other core technology, i suspect is not LM who doest want to give us access but from the korea itself because this project is their pride project, they want the world to know that south korea capable built their own fighter jets, just like i said they just need us for their cash reducing production cost

if you see youtube in related to kfx and indonesia, how their peoples boast about kfx and want us to be kicked out, this can illustrate how they generally think of Indonesia in this project

 

[Nike]

Hillary did win if every vote is equal, but US election system is quite weird and complicated. It is not fair actually that the vote in some states has more worth than in other states. So I always feel our democracy system is better than USA.

No lah, their had been tested since hundreds years ago and experience so much demography change accross the states. In the past newly joined states like California is one of the least populated and old one like Virginia got the most populated, but now situation reverse right? one can't predict future right?

And more important is What they care more about is how to preserve their constitution which protect the value of democracy itself not the voters and prevent tyrani by majority.

 

[Chestnut]

CAATSA surely be lifted soon as Joe Biden will likely to win the election based on latest survey.

So did Hillary lmao.

Also, CAATSA is a congressional act. It's not as easy to repeal it as most people think.

Hillary did win if every vote is equal, but US election system is quite weird and complicated. It is not fair actually that the vote in some states has more worth than in other states. So I always feel our democracy system is better than USA.

It's actually much fairer than most people think. It's setup like that so people with more people won't be able to impose their values on states with smaller populations through sheer population size. If anything, their system is a LOT better than ours. Political minorities there are protected through minority rights along with checks and balances.

 

[Nike]

in my simple word we pay contribution 20% share cost just to studying how to build jet fighter airframe and and sokor will give us 1 prototype, but we can't access other core technology, i suspect is not LM who doest want to give us access but from the korea itself because this project is their pride project, they want the world to know that south korea capable built their own fighter jets, just like i said they just need us for their cash reducing production cost

if you see youtube in related to kfx and indonesia, how their peoples boast about kfx and want us to be kicked out, this can illustrate how they generally think of Indonesia in this project

The latest video should depict it clear, no Indonesia word at all, no word IFX at all. Only KFX, KAI and Korean people working on it. I rather put it with bitter smile and move on, we are not there at this time and must change our strategy.

After all Korean who had experienced to working for almost 180 pieces of KF 16 and more than 200 KF5, maintenance jobs for 59 F15 Slam Eagle and now producing more than 160 T/A 50 and F/A 50 cerntainly had a lot of experience to build fighter jets. And what we had 33 F 16, 16 Su 27/30 and 30 something Hawk Mk 100/200. We are far cry from them and nothing to compared and our expertise is in propeller type lifter aircraft not fighter jets.

 

[Rayadipa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1286824035368595456

I heard $30 billion of them is for france.

 

[Gundala]

Hope to see a large scale India - Indonesia naval exercise this year or next.

So far the exercises so far are fairly limited (over last couple years but they are just officially starting so its understandable).

We have put in order for 6 more poseidons btw. There hopefully will be good cooperation between IN and TNI-AL (and TNI at large) for joint strategy against common larger adversary w.r.t crucial areas like java sea, banda sea, andaman sea and of course the most crucial straits involved.

We are starting to grow good perception towards each other. This below news if it can be materialized will be a good project for both sides.
https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/india-makes-moves-at-indonesias-strategic-sabang-port/

just the way chinese are happy that you're buying their ships (KD Keris) and then they still get free tickets to poke through your EEZ? you dont say

Better not feed the troll bruh

 

[Indos]

in my simple word we pay contribution 20% share cost just to studying how to build jet fighter airframe and and sokor will give us 1 prototype, but we can't access other core technology, i suspect is not LM who doest want to give us access but from the korea itself because this project is their pride project, they want the world to know that south korea capable built their own fighter jets,

if you see youtube in related to kfx and indonesia, how their peoples boast about kfx and want us to be kicked out, this can illustrate how they generally think of Indonesia in this project

I have made long post about our design contribution and the post is a reply to you, dont you read it ??

There are reason of why KAI forbid PTDI to send inexperience engineers and only want 35 years old above. It is just revealed by our Defense Minister deputy in CNBC Indonesia.

Getting design experience and R&D in STEALTH fighter project is not cheap. We are lucky to only contribute 20 %. If we do it our selves, we will have to prepare 10 billion dollar like the cost of KFX/IFX program. By joining the project with Korea, either Indonesia and Korea will also get knowledge from each other. Korea has also designed T 50 with Lockheed Martin so we will get valuable insight as well from Korean engineers.

I dont know what you mean of core technology, people who oppose KFX fighters always say something like this, but of course PTDI is an airframe company, similar like Boeing and Airbuss, PTDI dont make AESA radar, IRST, and other avionics.

As I said if 4 core technologies are developed by Korea using KFX/IFX development cost, so I believe Indonesia who has invested in 20 % of the overall cost should get 20 %TOT and some workshare on the subsytems like AESA Radar, IRST, and others. But we cannot get technology from subsystem that are imported and not part of development cost.

if you see youtube in related to kfx and indonesia, how their peoples boast about kfx and want us to be kicked out, this can illustrate how they generally think of Indonesia in this project

Did you watch the history ? It is because Indonesia (Jokowi) try to renegotiate with ridiculous offer like paying the development cost through barter, decreasing contribution cost into 15 %, decreasing the fighter acquisition from 48 into 16, while not paying the cost since 2017.

Our relationship with South Korea has been jeopardized because of it.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

So did Hillary lmao.

Also, CAATSA is a congressional act. It's not as easy to repeal it as most people think.

It's actually much fairer than most people think. It's setup like that so people with more people won't be able to impose their values on states with smaller populations through sheer population size. If anything, their system is a LOT better than ours. Political minorities there are protected through minority rights along with checks and balances.

Except a sheep shaggers from Wyoming now have more political say than a regular dude from California. Fair isn't the word I will use to describe the American electorate systems. Also what is this "values" you speak of?

There's a reason why most countries doesn't use the US systems.

 

[Chestnut]

I'd rather trust the people from Wyoming than anyone from California.

 

[Nike]

Setelah ke Turki, Prabowo Terbang ke India, Ada Apa?
Rehia Sebayang, CNBC Indonesia
NEWS

25 July 2020 09:00

Foto: Menhan Prabowo Bertemu dengan Presiden Turki Recep Erdogan (dok. Presidensi Republik Turki)

Jakarta, CNBC Indonesia - Menteri Pertahanan Indonesia Jenderal Prabowo Subianto akan melakukan kunjungan ke India selama tiga hari. Kunjungan tersebut akan dilakukan mulai Minggu (26/7/2020).

Dalam kunjungannya, Prabowo akan mengadakan pembicaraan dengan para pemimpin India untuk memperkuat kerja sama pertahanan bilateral, lapor Times of India, Sabtu (25/7/2020).



Baca:
Prabowo Ternyata Tak Cuma Bidik Drone di Turki, Apa Itu?


"Jenderal Prabowo akan mengunjungi India dari 26 hingga 28 Juli dan akan meletakkan karangan bunga di Peringatan Perang Nasional pada hari Senin," kata Angkatan Darat negara itu.

"Dia juga akan tampil dengan Penjaga Kehormatan di South Block Lawns pada hari Senin."




Baca:
Jadi Beli Eurofighter Typhoon atau Sukhoi Su-35, Pak Prabowo?


Sebelumnya pada Rabu, Prabowo telah mengadakan pertemuan dengan Menteri Perdagangan Agus Suparmanto di Kantor Kemhan untuk membahas berbagai isu, khususnya penjajakan mekanisme pelaksanaan imbal dagang dengan beberapa negara mitra dagang, termasuk India.

Dalam kesempatan itu, Agus menjelaskan bahwa beberapa komoditas yang siap diimbaldagangkan antara lain kelapa sawit, karet, permesinan, kopi dan turunannya, kakao dan turunannya, produk tekstil, teh, alas kaki, ikan olahan, furnitur, buah-buahan, kopra, plastik dan turunannya, resin, kertas, serta rempah-rempah.

"Tujuan imbal dagang adalah untuk menyeimbangkan neraca perdagangan antara Indonesia dengan negara mitra dagang, sehingga bisa sama-sama mendatangkan devisa," kata Mendag dalam rilisnya yang dimuat di situs kementerian, Kamis.

"Dengan skema imbal dagang, komoditi ekspor Indonesia dapat mendukung pertumbuhan ekonomi nasional agar bisa semakin bergerak dan tumbuh," tambahnya.

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/...lah-ke-turki-prabowo-terbang-ke-india-ada-apa

Prabowo seems looking for something in India, maybe Brahmos and other?

@Nilgiri

 

[Gundala]

Getting design experience and R&D in STEALTH fighter project is not cheap

No stealth technology has been given to Indonesia, not even Korea. Also, US rep often come to Korea to make sure no technology would be leaked to Indonesia. That stealth/Low observable radar design mostly come from US (Airframe wise) and thats the not being given as well.

 

[Nike]

KFX is not Stealth fighter period

 

[initial_d]

and also, KFX price will be higher than F-35, with small number be built the price of kfx will over 100 mill/piece, just like the taiwanese F-CK Ching kuo, not worth it, if i were Prabowo, I'll bail out KFX program