Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Public don't care about KFX with the same reason of why they didn't even know or care that there's things called "Leopard tank", "MQ reaper drone", "Diesel Submarine", "BVR missile", "ICBM", "PDW", "MRAP" etc etc when you ask them if they want these trillions of rupiahs worth of weapons should be converted into free food, ofc they will say "yes please". Why? because they are PLEBS, literally awam people who knows not of this "world", they will always be less informed of these shit, you might as well melt down the tanks, scraps the jets, and kilo-ing the submarines if everything should be "citizens only care about food so we dont need to care about strategic weaponry", there's state and there's citizen interest, and for god's sake this isn't socioeconomic discussion.

Politics work this way, for christ sake. And weapons procurement is all related to politics and budget policy of the state and Linked to socio economy of the state affairs. And are you sure with KFX we can secure our National interest and to resolve what our Air Force currently needed, meanwhile let us being at stake with the whims of Korean (who in the style doing their own research on most of key technology of KFX needed without Indonesia involvement ) ? I would not dwell again as i had posted a long post about that.

Let me be Frank, our Air Force currently needed immediate Airframe to address their lack of Air frame to do conduct their jobs even for the most basic routine peace patrol in most areas needed. Severe usage of the current Airframe in Air Force inventory let to the advance of wear and tear of the already old Airframe (F16 , Hawk we are use as workhorse all come from 90 decade) we already had and if we wait for KFX / IFX program to commence and going through their masa production phase in circa (2027 onward) the current availability of air frame of most our fighter jet will drop down in the next five years ahead. The case is happened on engine failure of the Hawk last month. So what is your solution to address such problem? To let TNI AU just doing what their doing right now and postpone all of the procurement of fighter while waiting for whose know KFX/IFX available to Indonesian bidding in the future and wearing our fighter workhorse until nothing left the bones in next five to Ten years ahead?

 

[Nike]

Indonesia summit at the Defense Industry Directorate
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News Center
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July 22, 2020
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President of the Turkish Presidency, Defense Industry. Dr. İsmail DEMİR held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation.

"We held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation," President DEMIR said in a statement on the subject. At the meeting, we exchanged views on cooperation and export issues in various fields, especially UAVs, marine and land vehicles. ” expressions were included.


The KAPLAN Medium Class Tank, the Torpedo Countermeasure System for ZARGANA Submarines and the ACAR Ground Surveillance Radar, developed by FNSS, are some of the Turkish defense industry products currently used by the Indonesian Army. Indonesia, TUSAŞ production ANKA Medium Altitude - Long Strength (MALE) class UAV and ASELSAN production show great interest in KORKUT Self Propelled Low Altitude Air Defense Cannon System. On the other hand, it is known that similar interest is also for MİLGEM and ALTAY.

Source: SavunmaSanayiST.com

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/savunma-sanayii-baskanliginda-endonezya-zirvesi/

Milgem and Altay?

 

[Gundala]

Politics work this way, for christ sake. And weapons procurement is all related to politics and budget policy of the state and Linked to socio economy of the state affairs. And are you sure with KFX we can secure our National interest and to resolve what our Air Force currently needed, meanwhile let us being at stake with the whims of Korean (who in the style doing their own research on most of key technology of KFX needed without Indonesia involvement ) ? I would not dwell again as i had posted a long post about that.

Let me be Frank, our Air Force currently needed immediate Airframe to address their lack of Air frame to do conduct their jobs even for the most basic routine peace patrol in most areas needed. Severe usage of the current Airframe in Air Force inventory let to the advance of wear and tear of the already old Airframe (F16 , Hawk we are use as workhorse all come from 90 decade) we already had and if we wait for KFX / IFX program to commence and going through their masa production phase in circa (2027 onward) the current availability of air frame of most our fighter jet will drop down in the next five years ahead. The case is happened on engine failure of the Hawk last month. So what is your solution to address such problem? To let TNI AU just doing what their doing right now and postpone all of the procurement of fighter while waiting for whose know KFX/IFX available to Indonesian bidding in the future and wearing our fighter workhorse until nothing left the bones in next five to Ten years ahead?

I second this. We need to decide if we are still in or not so TNI AU/Kemenhan can create a good plan ahead, I personally dont care anymore if we going stay in or out. But if we decided to pay then by all means pay debt, and If we decided to pull out then do the damage control plan. All those money that already being paid harus dipertanggung jawabkan/negotiate as perhaps a small amount of share in the project for example. I do understand the govt dilemma as this can be a plitical nightmare both nationally and internationally. But at the certain point we have to decide, no more "di gantung"

 

[Chestnut]

Agree... this is only a distraction from what is real.. I'm pretty sure Prabowo and Team clearly know what legal, financial and political risks of buying EF... He is an experienced (former) General for God sake... This is also functioning to distract potential opponents eyeing what would Indonesia do to face regional situation..

Just like Sun Tzu / Bin tactics, do something that look silly or unimportant or unpredictable in battle field in order to distract, confuse, surprise and make enemies downgrade their level of awareness... and once they did, we can easily set them into a trap...

Personally I think you're giving him way too much credit. He obviously knows his stuff when it comes to ground related matters, but I don't think he (like a majority of current and former Army generals) knows much about Air related matters.

 

[Nike]

Police Barracuda review, looking at spotless car, they are very well maintained and looking for

 

[Raduga]

Indonesia summit at the Defense Industry Directorate
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News Center
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July 22, 2020
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President of the Turkish Presidency, Defense Industry. Dr. İsmail DEMİR held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation.

"We held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation," President DEMIR said in a statement on the subject. At the meeting, we exchanged views on cooperation and export issues in various fields, especially UAVs, marine and land vehicles. ” expressions were included.


The KAPLAN Medium Class Tank, the Torpedo Countermeasure System for ZARGANA Submarines and the ACAR Ground Surveillance Radar, developed by FNSS, are some of the Turkish defense industry products currently used by the Indonesian Army. Indonesia, TUSAŞ production ANKA Medium Altitude - Long Strength (MALE) class UAV and ASELSAN production show great interest in KORKUT Self Propelled Low Altitude Air Defense Cannon System. On the other hand, it is known that similar interest is also for MİLGEM and ALTAY.

Source: SavunmaSanayiST.com

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/savunma-sanayii-baskanliginda-endonezya-zirvesi/

Milgem and Altay?

MILGEM is plausible for kornas development and parchim replacement , but i dont see Altay fit anywhere here ,better keep going to procure more leopard, they planned to install new 130mm cannon in near future .

 

[Nike]

Btw nice infography

With the new cold war looming at near distance and the Central points of clashes is very near us, it will be a no brainer to just looking at and givin' prayer that situation will not affected us, wake up dudes. It will affected us, as China actually had become our neighbour and US presence is still very large in the region. To become strong militarily and economically is a must. The last coldwar event affected Indonesia in a whole big ways although the sides is very far away from us (Soviet Union and United States) let alone the ones which closes with us and their presences we can feel.

 

[Ruhnama]

Indonesia summit at the Defense Industry Directorate
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News Center
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July 22, 2020
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President of the Turkish Presidency, Defense Industry. Dr. İsmail DEMİR held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation.

"We held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation," President DEMIR said in a statement on the subject. At the meeting, we exchanged views on cooperation and export issues in various fields, especially UAVs, marine and land vehicles. ” expressions were included.


The KAPLAN Medium Class Tank, the Torpedo Countermeasure System for ZARGANA Submarines and the ACAR Ground Surveillance Radar, developed by FNSS, are some of the Turkish defense industry products currently used by the Indonesian Army. Indonesia, TUSAŞ production ANKA Medium Altitude - Long Strength (MALE) class UAV and ASELSAN production show great interest in KORKUT Self Propelled Low Altitude Air Defense Cannon System. On the other hand, it is known that similar interest is also for MİLGEM and ALTAY.

Source: SavunmaSanayiST.com

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/savunma-sanayii-baskanliginda-endonezya-zirvesi/

Milgem and Altay?

Better u214, but their milgem also good. The pakistani one is likley more armed than turks' milgem and Altay? NO just BIG NO
(Have problem witth engine and their BMC company, still they not produce it- sorry turk arkadas)

Btw anyone know AH tweets about choice beacuse we didint have money between u209 (many said kasel kw) vs KFX?

(Since some peoples tell me about him more, i think what he said maybe based)

Public don't care

What if the public is kind like kaum bravo travo travo hidup tni?

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/...rabowo-lirik-pesawat-tanpa-awak-made-in-turki

Diam-Diam Prabowo Lirik Pesawat Tanpa Awak Made in Turki

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Foto: Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto saat berkunjung ke Turki (Twitter @IsmailDemirSSB)

Jakarta, CNBC Indonesia - Menteri Pertahanan Republik Indonesia Letnan Jenderal TNI (Purn) Prabowo Subianto melakukan kunjungan kerja ke Turki, Rabu (22/7/2020).

Informasi itu diketahui dari unggahan Ketua Presidensi Industri Pertahanan Republik Turki Ismail Demir di akun Twitter pribadinya @IsmailDemirSSB seperti dikutip CNBC Indonesia, Kamis (23/7/2020).

"Kami mengadakan pertemuan dengan Menteri Pertahanan Indonesia Prabowo Subianto dan delegasinya," tulis Ismail.

Dalam pertemuan itu, dia mengungkapkan kedua pihak bertukar pandangan tentang kerja sama di berbagai bidang, terutama alat utama sistem persenjataan (alutsista) seperti pesawat tanpa awak (UAV/Unmanned Aircraft Vehicle) serta kendaraan tempur di laut.

Sebelumnya, Prabowo mengadakan kunjungan kerja ke Turki pada 27-29 November 2019. Saat itu, Prabowo juga bertemu Presiden Turki Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Prabowo menyampaikan keinginan Indonesia memperkuat kerja sama pertahanan antara kedua negara. Sedangkan Erdogan menegaskan perhatian khusus Turki terhadap hubungannya dengan Indonesia, tidak terkecuali dalam kerja sama pertahanan.
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they're not satisfied with CH-4 ?

Searching battle proven label? Killing 3 pantsir in syria and some apc

Killing 1 pantsir and make advance in al watiyah

Infantryman during Aceh conflict 2003

View attachment 653924 View attachment 653925 View attachment 653926

The army in 2003 already use vest and the marine in this pic using belgian made fnc. The army vest is great blend with camo. Not like now black vest over camo...

Let alone for Brimob even units like Sabhara got adequate gears and equipment
Unit Sabhara
View attachment 653595 View attachment 653596 View attachment 653597 View attachment 653598 View attachment 653599

Tim jatanras polis (tingkat polres lah) also have good armament like imported ar15 (sig sauer, colt, hk etc)
Eh brimob punya tavor

 

[gondes]

Personally I think you're giving him way too much credit. He obviously knows his stuff when it comes to ground related matters, but I don't think he (like a majority of current and former Army generals) knows much about Air related matters.

But pretty sure the User or the Air Force has been consulted before launching that letter... Pretty sure as well, options already on the table... it's now see what is the reaction when they throw those.. if this failed, another will come..

 

[Whizzack]

Politics work this way, for christ sake. And weapons procurement is all related to politics and budget policy of the state and Linked to socio economy of the state affairs. And are you sure with KFX we can secure our National interest and to resolve what our Air Force currently needed, meanwhile let us being at stake with the whims of Korean (who in the style doing their own research on most of key technology of KFX needed without Indonesia involvement ) ? I would not dwell again as i had posted a long post about that.

Let me be Frank, our Air Force currently needed immediate Airframe to address their lack of Air frame to do conduct their jobs even for the most basic routine peace patrol in most areas needed. Severe usage of the current Airframe in Air Force inventory let to the advance of wear and tear of the already old Airframe (F16 , Hawk we are use as workhorse all come from 90 decade) we already had and if we wait for KFX / IFX program to commence and going through their masa production phase in circa (2027 onward) the current availability of air frame of most our fighter jet will drop down in the next five years ahead. The case is happened on engine failure of the Hawk last month. So what is your solution to address such problem? To let TNI AU just doing what their doing right now and postpone all of the procurement of fighter while waiting for whose know KFX/IFX available to Indonesian bidding in the future and wearing our fighter workhorse until nothing left the bones in next five to Ten years ahead?

Hold on a bit... Why would you think that this is an "either / or" situation instead of an "and" situation...? It seems like you are suggesting that if we were to continue committing to KFX development, then it means we won't be getting any other fighter for the short term.. This seems strange as all indications so far seems to point otherwise...

Even though we have committed to KFX project, we have also been windows shopping for other fighters for some time now.. from Su35 to Vipers to Gripen to Rafale to Typhoon to F35... this obviously indicates that we are seriously looking to increase our fighter numbers in the short term... Meanwhile KFX has always been billed as a medium to long term project, whose goals are not simply to buy additional airframes but mostly to gain the know how of fighter design and manufacturing process (and having some input in the design).. Which is basically a long term investment for our aerospace industry and skill... so no contest in that regards really...

That's why I'm rather confused on why some people seems to think that this is a "either KFX or Vipers/Su35/Rafale/etc" situation instead of a "Vipers/Su35/Rafale/etc and KFX" situation... It's not like KFX and the other fighters are mutually exclusive, where we can only have one and not the other...

 

[Chestnut]

Indonesia summit at the Defense Industry Directorate
by
News Center
-
July 22, 2020
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President of the Turkish Presidency, Defense Industry. Dr. İsmail DEMİR held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation.

"We held a meeting with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and his delegation," President DEMIR said in a statement on the subject. At the meeting, we exchanged views on cooperation and export issues in various fields, especially UAVs, marine and land vehicles. ” expressions were included.


The KAPLAN Medium Class Tank, the Torpedo Countermeasure System for ZARGANA Submarines and the ACAR Ground Surveillance Radar, developed by FNSS, are some of the Turkish defense industry products currently used by the Indonesian Army. Indonesia, TUSAŞ production ANKA Medium Altitude - Long Strength (MALE) class UAV and ASELSAN production show great interest in KORKUT Self Propelled Low Altitude Air Defense Cannon System. On the other hand, it is known that similar interest is also for MİLGEM and ALTAY.

Source: SavunmaSanayiST.com

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/savunma-sanayii-baskanliginda-endonezya-zirvesi/

Milgem and Altay?

I trust the Turks more than the Ukrainians tbh.

But pretty sure the User or the Air Force has been consulted before launching that letter... Pretty sure as well, options already on the table... it's now see what is the reaction when they throw those.. if this failed, another will come..

I genuinely hope so; But you, me, and a lot of other people in this thread knows how political the Army is compared to the other branches. I wouldn't be surprised if he either didn't consult the KASAU, or he did but didn't go into detail about it and just looked for what's easiest and cheapest for a quick political win over the Su-35 issue.

 

[Raduga]

I trust the Turks more than the Ukrainians tbh.

well ... in the matter of drones and warship of course

but regarding our cruise missile development .

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-po...key-with-over-500-cruise-missile-engines.html

UNIAN: Ukraine to supply Turkey with over 500 cruise missile engines
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To be honest , there's still much more thing to wait in the jet fighter procurement drama , we should wait for the latest offer prabowo would announce (most likely the latest version of F-15) .

 

[san.geuk]

well ... in the matter of drones and warship of course

but regarding our cruise missile development .

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-po...key-with-over-500-cruise-missile-engines.html

UNIAN: Ukraine to supply Turkey with over 500 cruise missile engines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest , there's still much more thing to wait in the jet fighter procurement drama , we should wait for the latest offer prabowo would announce (most likely the latest version of F-15) .

typhoon and then f15, seriously? that would be gado-gado if success or ketoprak if they all fails

 

[Chestnut]

Going back into the the EF after consulting people who are more informed about them, personally I wouldn't mind the AF buying Euro Triangles. Rather I strongly advise that they buy new air frames instead of procuring the problematic Austrian Tranche 1's. For the most part it is too expensive for what they are and at that point you should just buy new air frames.

Going into detail:

> Having Euro Triangles would at least appease the "diversification" crowd without having to delve into the weapons integration issues that you have with the Rafale. The Euro Triangle can carry AMRAAMs and Sidewinders, JDAM integration as well as JSM is being done currently. They can also carry the Sniper ATP as well so we can rely on one type of targeting pod. This would at least allow the Air Force to procure common missiles for their fleet instead of a hodge podge inventory of different missiles from different countries.

> Since it is an EADS/Airbus product you likely have good kickbacks going to PTDI, cheaper too if you bulk buy with the MRTT (let's face it, the issues with the KC-46 won't be solved anytime soon).

> Since the budget would be coming from the F-5 replacement budget instead of the Hawk replacement budget, the Air Force can still procure the F-16V's for airpower generation duties. Arguably you would likely have to retire the Flankers early to free up more funds for the Typhoons to reach IOC/FOC, which at this point is probably a welcome relief for the hangar queens.

> IF we stay in the KFX program, they would likely take over the Typhoon interception mission at some point, with (what I assume is going to happen) the F-35 taking over the F-16's patrol/strike mission; Or the other way around.


I still prefer an F-15 or a SHornet but realistically it's a better compromise than the Rafale

well ... in the matter of drones and warship of course

but regarding our cruise missile development .

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-po...key-with-over-500-cruise-missile-engines.html

UNIAN: Ukraine to supply Turkey with over 500 cruise missile engines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest , there's still much more thing to wait in the jet fighter procurement drama , we should wait for the latest offer prabowo would announce (most likely the latest version of F-15) .

Well, had Erdogan stopped with his 'Ottoman Empire 2.0: Electric Boogaloo' wet dream, it would have likely been a European or South Korean engine.

 

[Aghost132483]

After US and Allies send their fleet in the area, finally TNI AL show off in the area too, Interesting news, I don't know what chess they are playing right now