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it's turn out that la fayette has pintpoints for MLU so their will in service beyond 2030 in french navy

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-class-frigates-selected-for-mid-life-update/
Only 3 out of 5 will receive MLU, meaning there will be 2 hulls to be disposed of.

To be fair, the KFX has more growth potential since Block 2 and Block 3 are planned on being 5th gen while the F-16 airframe is basically already pushed to its potential.
Growth potential for Koreans, perhaps. For us? Highly questionable, looking back at the CN-235 project where it was 50:50 j and we saw where the Spaniards took that project and where we end up at with the project, nothing, yang ada malah kita beli lagi dari mereka hasil pengembangan itu barang. I agree with the rest of your point, however.
 
aren't we already procure Autoclave machine for production composite parts of KF-X in PT.DI ? it's sad if it can't be put to good use tbh.
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Only 3 out of 5 will receive MLU, meaning there will be 2 hulls to be disposed of.

Growth potential for Koreans, perhaps. For us? Highly questionable, looking back at the CN-235 project where it was 50:50 j and we saw where the Spaniards took that project and where we end up at with the project, nothing, yang ada malah kita beli lagi dari mereka hasil pengembangan itu barang. I agree with the rest of your point, however.

Actually Spaniard more generous in terms compared to Korean as Indonesia PT DI still able to gain Patent for several technology used when doing Cn 235 development and marketing rights, and this thanks to Habibie efforts.
 
No, i don't urge for F 18, just keep wondering why keep the KFX specs actually so close with F 18 and even for further up grade F 18 had option for enclosed weapon pod. Not to mention their engines is the same.

This would be like F 18 with European flavor in it, as there is planning to get European system within...

And you should look at my previous post above. The ridiculous ones is even when KFX is came online there still many many restriction can be imposed upon us, as there is no much (of nothing) sub system actually came from us, even when we are talking about 20 percentage of cost share and the Korean seems confidence to do the research of the critical sub system on their own. What we got and share with them within this project actually?

Missiles system? Nope
AESA radar? Nope
Integrated cockpit system? Nope
Navigation tracking system? Nope
IRST? Nope
Radar warning receiver? Nope
Flare and Chaff? Nope
JHMSC? Nope
Etc?


If you get to Adex 2019 you will find they are very confidence to do it alone and found suitable supplier from other Ally countries of their.

If you are talking about software development they are more than enough to do it alone with their tonnes experience when doing T/A 50 and secure license for F16. There is many still questioning our own worth within the project and how came we joint this one in first place not trying to build upon the foundation first like build light jet attack/trainer in which we are needed them in number.

And to do so why not trying to enlarge our Air Force first, build more fighter squadron to gain economy scale needed for sub system maker can Made profit, Made concession with OEM to do maintenance at Indonesia and further upgrade option with sub system made in Indonesia.



Thats subject of our discontent before, the Korean actually doesnt need us very much and they can dictate the Patent technology clausul over this projects as Indonesia actually very lacking in avionic sub system technology and industrial engineering especially for fighter technology, meanwhile Korean got Hanwa and Lig Next1 as their proponent supplier with international reputation. So what our Air frame maker of PT DI can offer actually? To Made Airframe components and Fuselage!! This actually not much worth for 20 percentage of cost share we are burdened with.

How about raw material processing for airframe, exterior material, any chance we get more share/ contricution in that process?
 
aren't we already procure Autoclave machine for production composite parts of KF-X in PT.DI ? it's sad if it can't be put to good use tbh.
fb_img_153233003683055801141411043209.jpg

FB_IMG_1532330031582-678x381.jpg

That's for Airframe components and Fuselage production in which actually not worth the 20 percentage of cost development

How about raw material processing for airframe, exterior material, any chance we get more share/ contricution in that process?

Even South Korean import them from abroad, let alone Indonesia. Forget it.

Remember what we shought after KFX project? Valuable experience when doing research on how to build your own fighter. And now what is the most expensive and important of any modern fighter actually beside their engines? Their sub system, starting from radar, EWR, IRST, Missiles system, and so on. So what if we got the right to build the Fuselage and Air Frame components like Wing parts? That's actually can be sourced to any reputable private industry working in aviation sector in USA or China with cheaper costs (just like how Boeing do their business)!! We don't see the loophole at this issue first before someone mentioned it...

Btw, i am more for better to follow up the projects until it was finished to uphold our international standing when doing joint projects in the future. It just if some parts of projects cooperation can be amend to accomodate more of Indonesia needs it is better to fight for it till the end. Just don't follow it as it is today.
 
How about raw material processing for airframe, exterior material, any chance we get more share/ contricution in that process?

You can see raw material processing conducted by PTDI in this video

 
Covid-19: Indonesia looks to expand countertrade options
by Jon Grevatt



The Indonesian government has said it is exploring opportunities with military suppliers to facilitate procurement through countertrade. The move to lean on such methods, it said, is being considered to help the country overcome economic constraints, which have been exacerbated by Covid-19.

The Indonesian Ministry of Trade said in a statement on 16 July that it is collaborating with the Ministry of Defence in talks with “several trading partner countries” about expanding the application of countertrade in defence purchases, transferring locally produced commodities to foreign military suppliers in exchange for defence equipment.

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Indonesia supported its planned acquisition of Sukhoi Su-35 fighter aircraft (pictured) through a countertrade programme. Jakarta now wants to roll out the payment method on a wider scale to boost its economy. (Sukhoi)

The Ministry of Trade said that local commodities that could be positioned for defence countertrade deals included palm oil, rubber, machinery, coffee, cocoa, textile products, tea, footwear, fish, furniture, fruits, plastics, resins, paper, and spices. Indonesian Minister for Trade Agus Suparmanto said in the statement, “Applying countertrade, Indonesia's export commodities can support growth in the national economy.”

The Ministry of Trade went on to highlight some of the benefits of applying countertrade in defence purchases. “The [countertrade method helps Indonesia] overcome obstacles and export constraints and expands market areas and the marketing of new products,” it said.

“It also saves foreign exchange, accelerates the transfer of technology and knowledge, supports efforts to create an equal balance of trade and payment, and increases production and expands employment opportunities.” It said.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...ndonesia-looks-to-expand-countertrade-options
 
the latest alman post about "advanced country" offering their used frigate .

most logical rumour list yet.
-La Fayette
-Type 23
-Anzac

Anzac have the most powerful sensor overall , the one that fitted with CEAFAR AESA radar would fitted well as our stopgap frigate waiting for iver to be done , and perhaps our pamen pati in TNI will be "Kepincut" with CEAFAR performance .
You forget to include OHP and bremen class there
 
Covid-19: Indonesia looks to expand countertrade options
by Jon Grevatt



The Indonesian government has said it is exploring opportunities with military suppliers to facilitate procurement through countertrade. The move to lean on such methods, it said, is being considered to help the country overcome economic constraints, which have been exacerbated by Covid-19.

The Indonesian Ministry of Trade said in a statement on 16 July that it is collaborating with the Ministry of Defence in talks with “several trading partner countries” about expanding the application of countertrade in defence purchases, transferring locally produced commodities to foreign military suppliers in exchange for defence equipment.

fg_3263698-jdw-7000.jpg

Indonesia supported its planned acquisition of Sukhoi Su-35 fighter aircraft (pictured) through a countertrade programme. Jakarta now wants to roll out the payment method on a wider scale to boost its economy. (Sukhoi)

The Ministry of Trade said that local commodities that could be positioned for defence countertrade deals included palm oil, rubber, machinery, coffee, cocoa, textile products, tea, footwear, fish, furniture, fruits, plastics, resins, paper, and spices. Indonesian Minister for Trade Agus Suparmanto said in the statement, “Applying countertrade, Indonesia's export commodities can support growth in the national economy.”

The Ministry of Trade went on to highlight some of the benefits of applying countertrade in defence purchases. “The [countertrade method helps Indonesia] overcome obstacles and export constraints and expands market areas and the marketing of new products,” it said.

“It also saves foreign exchange, accelerates the transfer of technology and knowledge, supports efforts to create an equal balance of trade and payment, and increases production and expands employment opportunities.” It said.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...ndonesia-looks-to-expand-countertrade-options
Do US, Europe, or Korea really want to receive payment in this kind of scheme?
 
Do US, Europe, or Korea really want to receive payment in this kind of scheme?

Don't know it was Joko Widodo party idea most likely , repeat of Megawati deals in the past

But this kind of payment seems less accountable and leaning to missappropriate conduct
 
You can see raw material processing conducted by PTDI in this video

I'm refering to external material processing for kfx assembly in PTDI, is there any chance for us to mastering or able manufactures for stealthy materials in other local industry outside PTDI?
 
and dutch kareel doorman class frigates ....
That's not included on the list for additional info US already offered us OHP since 2012 check this out:

https://rsnafb.wordpress.com/berita/indonesia-defence-assessment/

In September 2012, the US confirmed plans to sell Indonesia excess frigates as defence relations between the two countrieswere improving. These will likely be Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates that are being replaced in US Navy service by theLittoral Combat Ship. Further details are yet to emerge.
 
I thought there was article around 2 or 3 years ago about CCP Politburo Conggres making President's Office for life.

Xi is already President for life (albeit unofficially). But they don't made the office for life only the person. Even that IF he made some critical error he will still be kicked out
 
I'm refering to external material processing for kfx assembly in PTDI, is there any chance for us to mastering or able manufactures for stealthy materials in other local industry outside PTDI?

I dont know, actually composite material is Stealthy and Airbus has asked PT Dirgantara Indonesia to produce composite material and make composite fuselage for their plane. We can start from there. But government look like doesnt have any willingness to invest and PTDI itself doesnt have enough money to do it by themselves.

There is of course high possibility that PT DI will do the processing of stealth raw material for KFX/IFX since PTDI will make fuselage components for all of KFX/IFX. The exact components that will be produced was stated by Defense Ministry official who lead IFX program and you can find it in my KFX/IFX thread. PTDI will also do the assembling and integration for all IFX.


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Dirgantara Indonesia to produce composite parts for Airbus, Boeing
  • Harry Suhartono and Fathiya Dahrul
    Bloomberg
Jakarta / Tue, May 14, 2019 / 10:36 am

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A CN295 plane produced by state-owned aircraft industry PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) was parked at Pondok Cabe Airport in Pondok Cabe, Southeast Tengerang, Banten after a delivery ceremony to the National Police on Sept. 7 at the Air Police Directorate headquarters. (kontan.co.id/Zaki Ari Setiawan)

Dirgantara Indonesia, a supplier of aluminum wing components for Airbus SE’s A320 and A380 model jets, is developing the production capability to supply non-metal aircraft parts as well.

The company is “exploring opportunities” to produce so-called composite parts -- typically made from fiberglass or carbon fiber -- for both Airbus and Boeing within the next two years, President Director Elfien Goentoro said in an interview in Jakarta Monday. The state-owned company, which is also an aircraft manufacturer, intends to triple its plane production to 56-a-year by 2024, he said.

The expanded production plans would support the Indonesian government’s efforts to reduce the nation’s dependence on commodities and narrow the current account deficit. Dirgantara, based in West Java, expects its latest 19-seat propeller plane, the N219, to obtain certification from Indonesian regulators this year, Goentoro said.


“We want to expand our composite-parts production facilities so hopefully by 2021, we can start taking orders for these aircraft parts,” Goentoro said. “We also plan to invest $119 million to build a facility dedicated to producing the N219.”

Island Hoppers

The aircraft would be for use in industries including tourism to provide access to remote areas, such as some of the 17,000 islands that make up Indonesia, the world’s largest archipelago. Dirgantara plans to produce 36 of these aircraft annually by 2024 with a target to exporting half of them, in addition to making 20 other propeller planes a year, Goentoro said.

The company is targeting orders for the N219 in the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, East Timor, Nepal, Senegal and South Korea this year, Goentoro said. “Our company’s intention is to boost our exports significantly so we can have a better balance between our domestic contracts and contracts denominated in foreign currencies.”

Dirgantara plans to boost its aircraft maintenance, repair and overhaul business and is certified by Airbus to service some of its military aircraft and helicopters, Goentoro said.

The company previously supplied parts for Boeing’s 737 family of aircraft under a contract that has expired, Goentoro said. Dirgantara wants to secure a new contract with the U.S. aircraft maker, he said, without specifying whether they are in discussions.

Goentoro also said he’s in talks with Indonesian finance ministry officials to allow the N219, which was developed domestically, to be sold to local customers without attracting a luxury tax from the government.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...roduce-composite-parts-for-airbus-boeing.html
 
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