India's 2nd air craft carrier would be, of Catobar Type.

[Abingdonboy]

I believe that a British company, Coversteam, was making an electronic aircraft launch system too "EMCAT". I think the Brits pulled the plug, albeit the company did design the electronic propulsion system being fitted on to the new carrier and the type-45 ship. Any way the project might be resuscitated? It would be easier for us procure it from your compatriots yaara. The US wouldn't put in a crimper since they've stopped vetoing our purchases and none of their associated products are concerned. You could even put in a good word or two for us.

The EMCAT project is LOOOONG dead mate. When, recently, the UK wanted to convert the QE Class from STOBAR to CATOBAR they brought in US consultants, the EMCAT wasn't even considered as it is dead.

 

[Dillinger]

The EMCAT project is LOOOONG dead mate. When, recently, the UK wanted to convert the QE Class from STOBAR to CATOBAR they brought in US consultants, the EMCAT wasn't even considered as it is dead.

Sigh, a door closed and not even ominously for no sound was heard. We could have benefited from it vastly. Dunno maybe we could get the States to sell us the EMALS without conditions, it would be arduous a task but needs must brother.

 

[Abingdonboy]

We could have benefited from it vastly. Dunno maybe we could get the States to sell us the EMALS without conditions, it would be arduous a task but needs must brother.

Indeed but this is exactly what @sancho is saying, the EMALS will in liklihood only come to India with a package deal with some other US kit like the F-18/35 and E-2/V-22 AWACS.

 

[Dillinger]

Indeed but this is exactly what @sancho is saying, the EMALS will in liklihood only come to India with a package deal with some other US kit like the F-18/35 and E-2/V-22 AWACS.

Well Sir ji knows his stuff. @sancho no way to avoid this at all?

 

[Abingdonboy]

So when you still want stuff from them, but without beeing dependent, this would be a balanced compromise don't you think?

Indeed, when given serious thought it is clear India is going to have to chose between the devil and the deep blue sea as, as of yet, it simply doesn't make the systems the IN requires. I guess the general view of the US as the "big bad monster" fuelled my remarks. If India can get its systems on the V-22 and F-18 then much of this paranoia is found to be needless.


Having said that the US is still in all likelihood going to demand some compromises on the Indian side and specifically I mean the signing of the likes of LSA, CISMOA and maybe even the big one-BECA.

I just can't see away India signing these sovereignty-infringing agreements.

 

[sancho]

Well Sir ji knows his stuff. @sancho no way to avoid this at all?

It's a matter of negotiations, but keep in mind that the US weapon lobby will do anything to get as much out of us, as possible. Why should they offer us their catapult technology and let us take French fighters, when they simply can combine it with their aircrafts? In this case we simply have not much options, either we want catapults and have to stick to their demands (or at least try to reach compromises as I suggested), or to remain with the STOBAR.
We had the same situation with the Gorshkov deal, were we simply had no other option that agreeing to the combined deal of the carrier + Mig 29s and possibly even Ka 31s.

 

[jha]

Indeed but this is exactly what @sancho is saying, the EMALS will in liklihood only come to India with a package deal with some other US kit like the F-18/35 and E-2/V-22 AWACS.

Singh jee, EMALs and Nuke propulsion is only possible for IAC-III ( if this is constructed). USA will not part with such a recent system without asking a bomb for it. Not to mention the whole fleet of aircrafts, AWACs and refuelers coming from their companies. On top of all this a lot of agreements. I just dont see any of this happening. We must not forget their restriction on a simple GE-414...

 

[Dash]

It's a matter of negotiations, but keep in mind that the US weapon lobby will do anything to get as much out of us, as possible. Why should they offer us their catapult technology and let us take French fighters, when they simply can combine it with their aircrafts? In this case we simply have not much options, either we want catapults and have to stick to their demands (or at least try to reach compromises as I suggested), or to remain with the STOBAR.
We had the same situation with the Gorshkov deal, were we simply had no other option that agreeing to the combined deal of the carrier + Mig 29s and possibly even Ka 31s.

The US did help french in the Catapult launching with a complete French carrier. But you are right, for India they will demand more stuff for sure. I guess we will buy E2D hawkeye but going for F18 will not make any sense!..

 

[sancho]

The US did help french in the Catapult launching with a complete French carrier. But you are right, for India they will demand more stuff for sure. I guess we will buy E2D hawkeye but going for F18 will not make any sense!..

For the US for sure, since it means more exports and I highly doubt we get EMALS only for a few E-2Ds in return. Anything below the 40 x fighters mentioned in the earlier RFI might be not enough for them and they know quiet well, the minute they approve catapults, we would go for E-2Ds anyway.
And there are certain advantages the F18SH offers as mentioned:

- twin seater available
- folding wings
- cheaper per unit and to operate
- a varient of the engine will be produced in India, which secures spares
- HALBIT could produce the thouchscreen of the upgrade roadmap
- it uses the Litening pod, that will be used by N-LCA and Mig 29K
- some of the weapons will be available in IN through P8Is too


If the USN will fund the CFTs as recent reports suggests, it will be an interesting addition too. Add the additional passive sensors, internal IRST and the Growler Lite options and you have a pretty good carrier fighter, with EPE engine and weapon pods possible uin future as well.
For INs timeline and moreover their requirements, the F18SH might be the better choice IF the US don't put too many restrictions on it.

 

[IND151]

can any one post the image comparing size of IN Vikrant INS Viraat and INS Vikramaditya

@sancho @Penguin> do you have such image

 

[Abingdonboy]

can any one post the image comparing size of IN Vikrant INS Viraat and INS Vikramaditya

@sancho @Penguin> do you have such image

The IAC-2 will be ~65,000 tons (so not too dissimilar to the QE class)

 

[IND151]

^^ thanks, but I want image comparing all three Indian carriers

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^ thanks, but I want image comparing all three Indian carriers

Well fit this into the above comparion and you are away!

 

[Dash]

For the US for sure, since it means more exports and I highly doubt we get EMALS only for a few E-2Ds in return. Anything below the 40 x fighters mentioned in the earlier RFI might be not enough for them and they know quiet well, the minute they approve catapults, we would go for E-2Ds anyway.
And there are certain advantages the F18SH offers as mentioned:

- twin seater available
- folding wings
- cheaper per unit and to operate
- a varient of the engine will be produced in India, which secures spares
- HALBIT could produce the thouchscreen of the upgrade roadmap
- it uses the Litening pod, that will be used by N-LCA and Mig 29K
- some of the weapons will be available in IN through P8Is too


If the USN will fund the CFTs as recent reports suggests, it will be an interesting addition too. Add the additional passive sensors, internal IRST and the Growler Lite options and you have a pretty good carrier fighter, with EPE engine and weapon pods possible uin future as well.
For INs timeline and moreover their requirements, the F18SH might be the better choice IF the US don't put too many restrictions on it.

I wont call it a good deal, but its a fair deal what you have suggested. But then does it not change the entire dynamics of Rafale being a strong contender of N-MRCA? May not be a contender after all!!...I am not worried if we operate Rafale M or F18 on our flight decks but it sounds strange to me US still has a bargaining chip to sell their planes, something would have been calculated before or our defense planners think that they can get EMALS without any giving?..

The so called theory of US on India being the strategic military rebalncer in south Asia is just a joke, just like I apprehended.

 

[sancho]

I wont call it a good deal, but its a fair deal what you have suggested. But then does it not change the entire dynamics of Rafale being a strong contender of N-MRCA? May not be a contender after all!!...I am not worried if we operate Rafale M or F18 on our flight decks but it sounds strange to me US still has a bargaining chip to sell their planes, something would have been calculated before or our defense planners think that they can get EMALS without any giving?..

The so called theory of US on India being the strategic military rebalncer in south Asia is just a joke, just like I apprehended.

I see it similar, personally I think the Rafale is the better fighter and offeres the better techs and weapons, but you have always have to take the requirements, pros and cons into comparison and for the IN deal, there is not real an aim on industrial advantages like in the MMRCA. Here operational benefits might have higher importance and getting catapults for their carriers will be a huge leap, worthy enough to make "some" compromises and when you add the above mentioned advantages, the Super Hornet isn't a bad choice for IN at all, especially if it's meant as a secondary fighter in lower numbers, with a naval stealth fighter above it.