Indian RFP for six new-generation submarines

[chachachoudhary]

My humble request to indian members. Do not bother to reply to trollers. Avoid succumbing to provocations. This is the only way to keep an otherwise informative discussion on the right track.

I hope you guys understand.

 

[faithfulguy]

My humble request to indian members. Do not bother to reply to trollers. Avoid succumbing to provocations. This is the only way to keep an otherwise informative discussion on the right track.

I hope you guys understand.

I totally agree with you. We must make our statements base on actual facts with timeline as I had presented in my post on this thread. I hope most Indians stay with the facts and not go with baseless exaggerations or racial attacks like Rahul.

 

[Kinetic]

Any links bro? Curious. My brains have been so clued to arihant, I didn't bother to check on the other stuff till now.

DRDO was working on fuel cell and related technologies for years but from last two/three years they started development of fuel cell based AIP for submarine. It will work with hydrogen as fuel and oxygen or air as oxidizer. Indian AIP will be capable of providing power for 14 days without any external interference thus allowing the submarine to be underwater. It will generate 300 kW of power, same capacity generated onboard Spanish S-80 while German U-214 generates 240 kW (2x120). Naval Materials Research Laboratory (DRDO) is the prime developer.

Sources...

http://www.drdo.org/tender/nmrl/nmrl270109eoi.pdf

http://www.drdo.org/dpi/2009/ADN-15Dec_09.pdf

http://www.drdo.org/pub/nl/2010/feb10.pdf

Some more information were available, if I find them I will post here.

 

[jha]

So, I guess When Scorpene delivery is over and P-75I has started delivering, we can expect making of our own SSK with AIP to start..Atleast 7-8 years to wait for.

 

[Kinetic]

So, I guess When Scorpene delivery is over and P-75I has started delivering, we can expect making of our own SSK with AIP to start..Atleast 7-8 years to wait for.

For sure. From 2016/17 on wards we will see our own submarine construction with fuel cell based AIP. India's submarine arm and its acquisition is not going well. We need to speed up indigenous developments as well as foreign acquisitions. MoD wants new shipyards capable of building submarines. I think they should consider private shipyards as well.

DRDO making progress in all areas of advance technologies. Proud to see that.

 

[jha]

For sure. From 2016/17 on wards we will see our own submarine construction with fuel cell based AIP. India's submarine arm and its acquisition is not going well. We need to speed up indigenous developments as well as foreign acquisitions. MoD wants new shipyards capable of building submarines. I think they should consider private shipyards as well.

DRDO making progress in all areas of advance technologies. Proud to see that.

They will have to look for private shipyards because MDL and CSl will have their hands full. I dont know about the newly acquired one in Vizag..can it handle submarine construction..? any idea..?

 

[Guynextdoor]

For sure. From 2016/17 on wards we will see our own submarine construction with fuel cell based AIP. India's submarine arm and its acquisition is not going well. We need to speed up indigenous developments as well as foreign acquisitions. MoD wants new shipyards capable of building submarines. I think they should consider private shipyards as well.

DRDO making progress in all areas of advance technologies. Proud to see that.

I think letting private players more aggressively will be the key. At least conventional subs should be let out to them. At the rate at which PSUs deliver the requirements, we'll always be hamstrung. Remember that there were times when the Electric Boat company use to deliver one nuke sub every 6 months to the US Navy? I think companies like L&T are very capable of deploying highly effecient delievery yard+ they'll also put in some of their capital to speed up the projects- which is worth it even if they recover it later on with interest.

 

[Kinetic]

They will have to look for private shipyards because MDL and CSl will have their hands full. I dont know about the newly acquired one in Vizag..can it handle submarine construction..? any idea..?

The Vizag one needs complete overhaul to build futuristic submarines and they are doing it under second line submarine project. I am sure Pipavav and L&T will be involved in future submarine constructions. They are building modern facilities as well.

 

[flaming arrow]

MDL is too busy in building 6 scorpene so they are out of question they had made tall promises bt they are already running behind timeframe.
private yard has no experience in building a conventional submarine..if if they make it will be a laerning curvature for them that will again take time
better the first 3 subs are made tin the respective foreign yard and the rest in MDL of L&T( THEY HAD N IMP.ROLE IN ARIHANT) MDL will be little lesss on work by that tme to take on this project....just my 2 paisa

 

[SpArK]

@Kinetic any info about the projects going on in Mazagon docks and Cochin Ship yard right now?

 

[Kinetic]

I think letting private players more aggressively will be the key. At least conventional subs should be let out to them. At the rate at which PSUs deliver the requirements, we'll always be hamstrung. Remember that there were times when the Electric Boat company use to deliver one nuke sub every 6 months to the US Navy? I think companies like L&T are very capable of deploying highly effecient delievery yard+ they'll also put in some of their capital to speed up the projects- which is worth it even if they recover it later on with interest.

Your theory is rite mate but actually our private players don't hold advanced technologies to build new generation submarines (like EB). I think for some years the govt shipyards will be prime contractors while private shipyards will contribute significantly. Example: Arihant class. Though our PSUs are improving and feeling the pressure of timely supply of ships/submarines but not like privates. Thats why privates are crucial. They take some burden and know the value of time.

In future we should think about letting them build fully.

 

[Guynextdoor]

They will have to look for private shipyards because MDL and CSl will have their hands full. I dont know about the newly acquired one in Vizag..can it handle submarine construction..? any idea..?

From what I've heard the Vizag facility is dedicated to building nuke subs alone. Even the way in which the building is built is designed in such a way that the security of what is being built inside is never disclosed to the outside world. No matter what it's current role, with Five more nuclear subs in the pipeline, I see viazah having it's hands full for the next decade, at least.

 

[SpArK]

Here is the pic of Vizag HSl shipyard

 

[archangel]

"I didn't know that China had nuclear submarine in the 60s!!! "

That was cool. I love it when people tease Mr. Faithful Guy saying he is a chinese.

Anyways, I was wondering what happened to our Arihant Class subs. As per the calculations, the cost of one sub here in this deal is near about the whole cost of the Arihant Class project.

India has taken this step to fill the vacancies created by the decommissioning of the existing Diesel-Electric Subs and also as an answer to the induction of new subs by Pakistan(??????).

But the time taken to deliver these would be mostly the same where Arihant is likely to be delivered faster as we don't have to hold competitive trials, no delay regarding ToT(if in-house production is to take place), no issues with price negotiations, no mid-session price hikes and probably a lot more.

Also, Nuclear Powered Submarines can have a much-much larger, virtually unlimited endurance. This would cut operation, maintenance, docking costs(Although it has to return for change of crews and for resupply of rations and missiles).

And, as far as I know, they are quite 'quiet'. If not, we have enough insulation(both by quality and quantity) to suppress the existing ones. Noise cannot be entirely eliminated and no where is there written that Diesel-Electrics one with AIP are quieter. It is just that it increase the endurance of a conventional submarine by a small margin. It can even be added to existing subs by adding one more ring.

So, there seems no point in inducting these at such high costs. Rather the Arihant should be developed and promoted.

But since we don't need to go around the world and due to overload of construction projects at existing dockyards, this step might have been taken. Or else, we don't need these, not at atleast these prices.

There are chances for adjacent secret deals but in that case India could've selected a better reason for spending such a high amount of money without getting so much of attention and suspicion.

All we can now do is wait and watch.

 

[Kinetic]

@Kinetic any info about the projects going on in Mazagon docks and Cochin Ship yard right now?

MDL: Not any new details but as far as I know, P-15A delayed by two/three years. The first one scheduled to be commissioned in 2010 and no sign of it. Scorpene delayed by four years. First submarine scheduled to be inducted into the Navy by 2011/12 but the new date is 2015. This shipyard has worst management and working culture among all the shipyards in the country.

CSL: IAC-1 scheduled to be launched by year end but its rescheduled to mid 2011. It will not be delayed too much like usually done by MDL.