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Indian muslim :Javed Akhtar's India & Pakistan

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Anti-Pakistan sentiments are fed to Indian Muslims via the media & through the political parties; & in general, the political system of India.

when was the last time you saw indian news channels broadcasting news specifically for muslims??
news is broadcasted for every Indian not from a particular religion...
i can say same about zaid hamid who speaks BS on your news channels shows...
 
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when was the last time you saw indian news channels broadcasting news specifically for muslims??
news is broadcasted for every Indian not from a particular religion...
i can say same about zaid hamid who speaks BS on your news channels shows...

Zaid Hamid is just one of the few bad apples in Pakistan (& most people don't take him seriously in Pakistan), but if I start naming the bad apples in India, it will be hard for me to stop.
 
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It is sad that the Indian administration has to build up anti-Pakistan sentiments in its Muslim population, because of a fear of them shifting their loyalties to Pakistan. There are constant accusations levied against Indian Muslims of being loyal towards Pakistan & not India.

bilal, what about hate from people like Omar1984 right here? Listen to JuD and LeT ideologues. These people advocate killing of Kashmiri muslims that don't agree with them. Similarly there are other Pakistani - including intelligence and army personnels - who would hate people in India including muslims.

The problem is that Pakistanis get a very distorted view of India. We see the examples when journalists that speak out are not just tortured but killed.

And the fact is more muslims are killed in Pakistan than India. Even if we add the 92 riots and the 2002 riots deaths, still Pakistani muslims killed are much much more.
 
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Zaid Hamid is just one of the few bad apples in Pakistan (& most people don't take him seriously in Pakistan), but if I start naming the bad apples in India, it will be hard for me to stop.

zaid hamid is daddy of bad apples and there are more people who support him than those who do not...
else he would not have been given chance to be on news channels....
any so called "indian bad apple" cant even come close to his highness zaid hamid...
 
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bilal, what about hate from people like Omar1984 right here?

I have not personally met people who think like that in Pakistan. I have felt as Pakistani as anyone else, despite my 'Mohajir' background. There might be some people that think badly about people that migrated from India, but it's very few of them.

Listen to JuD and LeT ideologues. These people advocate killing of Kashmiri muslims that don't agree with them. Similarly there are other Pakistani - including intelligence and army personnels - who would hate people in India including muslims.

Most people want peace in the region, & an amicable resolution to the Kashmir problem, that has caused nothing but misery for India, Pakistan; & most importantly, the Kashmiri people. I think the hatred of Pakistan officials for India is exaggerated. Nations do not have love for another, they are tied to each other with respect to their mutual interests. Alliances can change overnight. Right now, India & Pakistan do not have any mutual interests, but the day they do, don't be surprised when Pakistan & India become closer to each other on a national level.

The problem is that Pakistanis get a very distorted view of India.

You get varied opinions from Pakistanis about India. Some are very favorable to India, others are pretty anti-India. Indians that do not have any personal experiences with Pakistanis only have one opinion about Pakistan/Pakistanis.

We see the examples when journalists that speak out are not just tortured but killed.

Again, there is no proof that implicates the Pakistani authorities killing journalists.

And the fact is more muslims are killed in Pakistan than India. Even if we add the 92 riots and the 2002 riots deaths, still Pakistani muslims killed are much much more.

Pakistan is embroiled in the global WOT right now. Let's compare the statistics of pre-2001 India & Pakistan, & let's see what the results come out to be. It is not fair to compare India to Pakistan when Pakistan has been fighting the global WOT for the past 10 years & India hasn't.
 
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I have not personally met people who think like that in Pakistan. I have felt as Pakistani as anyone else, despite my 'Mohajir' background. There might be some people that think badly about people that migrated from India, but it's very few of them.
With due respect, I have plenty of interactions with Punjabis and Pathans and they have no love lost for Muhajirs. The fact that they are called Muhajirs even after 67 years is something to note.

But moreover, the hate shown by terrorist groups like JuD, LeT and others who advocate killing of people in India inclusing muslims just because they don't hold their point of view is well known.

Most people want peace in the region, & an amicable resolution to the Kashmir problem, that has caused nothing but misery for India, Pakistan; & most importantly, the Kashmiri people. I think the hatred of Pakistan officials for India is exaggerated. Nations do not have love for another, they are tied to each other w.r.t their mutual interests. Alliances can change overnight. Right now, India & Pakistan do not have any mutual interests, but the day they do, don't be surprised when Pakistan & India become closer on a national level.
I think at present, even Kashmir is not a major issue for Pakistan right now. It needs to resolve the civil war within its borders before it can come to an understanding on Kashmir. Alliances can change overnight ofcourse, but when you see the usual Israel, India US conspiracy theories escpicially by those websites that are known establishment media wing, then you have to wonder.

Only genuine people of the masses, maybe like Nawaz Sharif who can channel popular sentiment of the masses to have good relations with India and can show the army/ISI their place i.e. under civilian control; then we might see better relations.


You get varied opinions from Pakistanis about India. Some are very favorable to India, others are pretty anti-India. Indians that do not have any personal experiences with Pakistanis only have one opinion about Pakistan/Pakistanis.

Again, there is no proof that implicates the Pakistani authorities killing journalists.
I think the poor and less educated in Pakistan tend to have better opinion of India. Atleast that is my feeling. They seem to not have the inbuilt bias that "Pakistan studies" creates in people who have gone through the Pakistani education system. Or those Pakistani origin people who have not gone through the same system andhave done O levels e.t.c.

And journalists killed or tortured by the ISI is now a pretty well known fact bilal, All journalists are openly talking about and many victims have openly come out and said their stories. If prime witnesses are not proof then what else is?


Pakistan is embroiled in the global WOT right now. Let's compare the statistics of pre-2001 India & Pakistan, & let's see what the results come out to be. It is not fair to compare India to Pakistan when Pakistan has been fighting the global WOT for the past 10 years & India hasn't.

Why not? I can India was embroiled in the worst financial crisis in history in 1992, had the Kashmir insurgency and hence an unfavourable climate that generated high unemployment and Hindu-Muslim hostility. Or I can say that 9/11, ISI supported terror networks as well as homegrown terrorists group like Abhinav Bharat created an atmosphere of overt hostlitly towards muslim.

We should included statistcs from 1950-2011, and compare literacy, per capita incomes, poverty levels, no.of graduates and no. of people killed in violent campagins. In all of them I think Indian muslims would come out looking better. But the real comparison should be minorities of India compared with minorities of Pakistan. That is what you should be comparing.

Bottomline is, Pakistan needs to set its own house in order. If it needs help from its neighbour, they will have to improve their relationship with it. But by staying hostile, its bad for Pakistan. Rest is upto you to decide.
 
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With due respect, I have plenty of interactions with Punjabis and Pathans and they have no love lost for Muhajirs.

If that was true, 'Mohajirs' such as A.Q.Khan & Musharraf would not have had popular support of the Pakistani people. Musharraf still has a lot more support than Zardari ever will. There might be certain Punjabis/Pathans that do not like certain 'Mohajirs', individuals like Pervez Hoodbhoy that openly speak against Pakistan's nuclear program & generate anti-Pakistan sentiments, just like there are Indians that do not like people like Arundhati Roy or Teetsa Setalvad for speaking out on Hindu extremism. But that doesn't mean Punjabis/Pathans harbor ill-feelings towards the 'Mohajirs' as a group.

The fact that they are called Muhajirs even after 67 years is something to note.

No one is called 'Mohajir', they are called 'Urdu speakers' or 'Urdu speaking people'. I have never been referred to as a Mohajir in Pakistan. In most cases, Pakistanis are not even concerned where one is from: people are called Pakistanis, & that is good enough for most people. Even the Mohajir Qaumi Party became Muttahida (united) Qaumi Party. So there is no such thing as a Mohajir, & no Pakistani that migrated from India thinks of him/herself like that. When I use the term 'Mohajir' in this forum, I use it for clarification purposes, as most Indians are not familiar with the term 'Urdu speakers' for the people that migrated from India to Pakistan in 1947. Urdu speakers are the most well-off ethnic group in Pakistan.

But moreover, the hate shown by terrorist groups like JuD, LeT and others who advocate killing of people in India inclusing muslims just because they don't hold their point of view is well known.

Pakistan supported the LeT in the 90s, not after that. The violence from the LeT is not the common sentiment of the common Pakistani though. Remember, Pakistan is a diverse country of 180 million people, even if there are 500,000 LeT terrorists, & a few million supporters of the LeT, the support they have would still be about 1-2%. Most people want amicable relations with India, & a peaceful resolution to Kashmir.

Alliances can change overnight ofcourse, but when you see the usual Israel, India US conspiracy theories escpicially by those websites that are known establishment media wing, then you have to wonder.

Conspiracy theories come from international media outlets as well. This is not something exclusive to Pakistan. In Pakistan, one has the complete freedom to express his/her views, which is why you see a wide range of opinions of people, from reliable sources like Dawn/Tribune.com.pk, & crap ones like rupee.com/news.com.pk. Take your pick.

Only genuine people of the masses, maybe like Nawaz Sharif who can channel popular sentiment of the masses to have good relations with India and can show the army/ISI their place i.e. under civilian control; then we might see better relations.

India tried to influence Sri Lanka for at least 2 decades, while Pakistan mainly influenced Kashmir through proxies only for a decade. It was the Tamils that got training in India that were responsible for suicides in Sri Lanka. My point being, nations try to influence their neighbors in the region, it is futile to point fingers at one another when one nation is just as bad as the other.

I think the poor and less educated in Pakistan tend to have better opinion of India. Atleast that is my feeling. They seem to not have the inbuilt bias that "Pakistan studies" creates in people who have gone through the Pakistani education system. Or those Pakistani origin people who have not gone through the same system andhave done O levels e.t.c.

Most Pakistanis do not harbor ill-feelings against India/Indians, & their hospitality is experienced by Indians that visit Pakistan. It is futile to make baseless generalizations.

We should included statistcs from 1950-2011, and compare literacy, per capita incomes, poverty levels, no.of graduates and no. of people killed in violent campagins. In all of them I think Indian muslims would come out looking better. But the real comparison should be minorities of India compared with minorities of Pakistan. That is what you should be comparing.

Indian Muslims fare better than Pakistani Muslims in literacy, but in every other parameter, Pakistani Muslims fare better than Indian Muslims. What's the use of education if it still results in abysmal conditions for most Indian Muslims? In most of the years since India & Pakistan's 63 years of independence, Pakistan as a country has fared better than India.

Bottomline is, Pakistan needs to set its own house in order. If it needs help from its neighbour, they will have to improve their relationship with it. But by staying hostile, its bad for Pakistan. Rest is upto you to decide.

This I agree with.
 
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Javed akhtar is unnecessarily combative against pakistan. I dont understand why Indian muslims have to dish pakistan all the time to show they are patriotic.

It is because if they show little bit favor towards Pakistan they are nailed down by your media, agencies and society.......Coz in India there are lot of problems for minorities.........which your media don't expose
 
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It is because if they show little bit favor towards Pakistan they are nailed down by your media, agencies and society.......Coz in India there are lot of problems for minorities.........which your media don't expose

No, I have observed, Indian muslims have genuinely carry a grudge against pakistan(some of them).
May be because they paid the price for pakistani freedom. I dont know.

About media part, you are right. If a hindu or sikh loves pakistan, he is a dove( kuldeep nayar, Manmohan Singh), if a muslim does a fraction of it, he is suspected( Shahrukh Khan).

I am sure it is same on other side of border. We wont know because hindu or sikh there wont dare to speak up.
 
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Indian Hindus dislike pakistan but Indian Muslims literally hate Pakistan..I got to know about it very recently when Pakistan lost against India...lots of dadhi walas were on the streets...
 
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I fail to understand what this "abysmal conditions" of Indian Muslims are......

In kerala, there are so many rich Muslim families that you would lose count. The generally backward Muslim communities in kerala made a strong comeback in the education sector. Infact a lot of kids from our communities make it to the premier institutions in India nowadays.

India is becoming a true state for the people and im happy to see the developments.

Your assessment is outdated bilal.....you would do well to update yourself. This overall growth is not restricted to kerala alone......this is fast becoming true for most parts in India.
 
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I fail to understand what this "abysmal conditions" of Indian Muslims are......

In kerala, there are so many rich Muslim families that you would lose count. The generally backward Muslim communities in kerala made a strong comeback in the education sector. Infact a lot of kids from our communities make it to the premier institutions in India nowadays.

India is becoming a true state for the people and im happy to see the developments.

Your assessment is outdated bilal.....you would do well to update yourself. This overall growth is not restricted to kerala alone......this is fast becoming true for most parts in India.
Those who realized education is key are reaping the benefit of liberalization. They dont need govt protection or handout.
They dont have to blame govt for not getting success in civil service exams, because they are getting good education and succeeding.

But a large group of people are also left out( hindu and muslim). It is bad to be a poor, worse to be poor muslim.
 
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I fail to understand what this "abysmal conditions" of Indian Muslims are......

In kerala, there are so many rich Muslim families that you would lose count. The generally backward Muslim communities in kerala made a strong comeback in the education sector. Infact a lot of kids from our communities make it to the premier institutions in India nowadays.

India is becoming a true state for the people and im happy to see the developments.

Your assessment is outdated bilal.....you would do well to update yourself. This overall growth is not restricted to kerala alone......this is fast becoming true for most parts in India.

My information is very much up to date, as I have family spread all over Bihar, UP, Jharkhand (Ranchi). My assessment is based on my 3 trips to India. My mother's parents live in Patna, some of her siblings (her two brothers) live in Lucknow. My mother's sister lives in Delhi. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I also have a small part of my Dad's side in India. We are not talking about the Muslims in Kerala or in Delhi/Ahmedabad/Bombay, we are talking about Indian Muslims as a whole.
 
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My information is very much up to date, as I have family spread all over Bihar, UP, Jharkhand (Ranchi). My assessment is based on my 3 trips to India. My mother's parents live in Patna, some of her siblings (her two brothers) live in Lucknow. My mother's sister lives in Delhi. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I also have a small part of my Dad's side in India.

Are you saying it is govt fault. Have you observed poverty in hindus in those part of India?

They are not called BIMARU without reason.
 
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Are you saying it is govt fault. Have you observed poverty in hindus in those part of India?

Yes, I have seen poor Hindus in those parts of India as well. But my point isn't really about discrimination of minorities in India (that is a completely separate issue that can dealt with in other threads), my argument is solely focusing on Indian Muslims as a group (all over India, not restricted to certain parts of India like Kerala, Delhi etc). I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.
 
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