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Indian Helicopter Discussion

so both will operate choppers ? its good idea ?

Yes, not only IA & IAF but IN also operate choppers.

Yes, it's a good idea, all major powers' Army & AF operates choppers, i don't think there will be trouble since there are already many capabilities overlaps in place like commandos for all the 3 forces, fighter a/c for both IAF & IN, marine forces of both IA & IN, etc.
 
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What most AFs do that don't operate the majority of the rotary wing assets. Anyways the IAF has its hands full enough with inductions left right and centre this is a load of their mind.



A few Qs arise though:
-Will IAF still get their LCHs and ALH WSI that are on order?
-Will the Apaches that will be arriving in the next 36 months be delviered to the IAF or IA AAC?
-What will happen to the MIL-17 V5 fleet down the road?

Indian Army to get its own 'mini air force' now

The Indian Army has finally got an in-principle approval for its demand for a 'mini air force' of its own. Going against the opposition of the Indian Air Force (IAF) to the "duplication of assets", the Defence Ministry on Thursday conceded to the Indian Army's demand of operating attack helicopters.

The letter received by the Indian Army on Thursday mentioned that all "future procurements" of the attack helicopters will be done by the force. This approval has open the speculation that the yet-to-be-procured 22 Boeing Apache AH-64D helicopters are also like to go to the Indian Army. For the last several years the the IAF has been conducting the field and technical evaluations for this contract and it is presently in the Contract Negotiation stage. However, the existing fleet of attack helicopters with the IAF - Mi-25/Mi-35 - will remain with it.

Also the Defence Ministry has given greater role to the Indian Army in the tasking of the medium lift helicopters operated by the IAF. From now on, the tasking given by the Army will be given priority in all times.

Sources indicate the attack helicopters requirement of the Army to be about 10 squadrons. As per plans the Indian Army envisages to have a squadron each of attack/armed, reconnaissance and tactical battle-support helicopters for each of its 13 Corps and the three strike corps headquartered at Mathura, Ambala and Bhopal will get more air assets. In fact, the Army is scheduled to get its first attack helicopter developed domestically Rudra soon. Rudra will be armed with 20mm turrent guns, 70 mm rockets, air-to-air missiles and anti-tank guided missiles.

The Air Force and Army had seen a tussle over deployment of attack helicopters during the 1999 Kargil conflict. Despite repeated requests from the Indian Army, the IAF had refused to deploy attack helicopters citing extreme heights and advantageous position of the enemy will make them sitting duck. Since then the control and operation of air assets has been a bone of contention between the two forces.

defence eXpress: Indian Army to get its own 'mini air force' now
 
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IAF is buying Apache with its own money. They will not transfer the control of aircraft bought by their money.

IA will raise new squadrons of LCH... Cant say anything about the Hinds.

If I am not wrong then APACHES that are being bought are form IA Money. Attack choppers were IA property maintain by IAF.

And I am pretty sure I read IA in the tender
 
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Good one by the MOD

Indeed, but by far not enough! They have to work out or reform the whole interoperability between the forces and have to check the efficiency of their policies as well.
It is not efficient if the forces can choose their different weapon systems, for the same purpose. It is not effecient, when IA needs nearly decades to decide for new procurements. It is not efficient, when IAF places fighter squads in the south, when INs will have their air bases around the costal areas anyway.

There is still a lot of things that can be improved, or at least should be reconsidered according to modern standards and MoD has to take a much more bold stand against the forces!
 
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Apache+AH-64D.jpg







By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 13th Oct 12

Ending a decade of friction between the army and the air force (IAF), the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has finally made a decision: the army will hereafter operate the fleet of attack helicopters that provides crucial fire support to army troops in battle.

“We have received a letter from the defence ministry and we have been given the attack helicopters by the government,” Army Chief, General Bikram Singh told PTI today.

In a letter that was issued on Thursday, the MoD has ruled that the military’s entire attack helicopter fleet will be owned, operated and maintained by the army. This includes the 22 Apache AH-64D helicopters that are being procured from US company, Boeing Defence, Space and Security (BDS); as also a new-generation fleet of combat helicopters that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is currently developing. That will include 179 Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs) and 76 Rudras, which are a weaponized version of HAL’s Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH).

The IAF’s existing fleet of rapidly fading Russian Mi-25/35s, for long the world’s most heavily armed attack helicopter, will continue to be operated by the air force until they are retired from service.

The most immediate effect of this decision will be that, instead of IAF pilots, Army Aviation Corps pilots will be going to the US for training on the Apache AH-64D.

The MoD has also accepted the army’s long-standing request for Mi-17 medium lift helicopters to be located in army camps in J&K, so that heliborne contingents can be launched into operations without delay. The army says that heliborne operations are invariably delayed because a cumbersome IAF hierarchy takes too long to sanction the use of its helicopters.

For the IAF, which has zealously guarded its turf, especially the two attack helicopter squadrons that it has so far operated, this decision will come as a blow. On Monday, speaking at the 80th IAF day celebrations in Hindon, outside Delhi, the IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne pooh-poohed the idea of the army having a dedicated combat support helicopter fleet, dismissively stating that “little air forces” cannot be allowed to sprout doing “their own things”.

Ignoring the fact that almost every major army in the world operates its own combat support aviation fleet, Browne flippantly wondered whether the navy would comply if the coast guard wants its own submarines.

The IAF has opposed the army’s acquisition of an aviation wing ever since the Army Aviation Corps was established in 1986. At that time, in the Joint Implementation Instructions, 1986, it was mandated that the Army Aviation Corps would operate only helicopters below 5 tonnes in weight. The IAF has successfully cited this document to block the expansion of the Army Aviation Corps.

The army, however, has argued --- ultimately successfully --- that the pace of battle today demands dedicated weapons platforms and command structures, and that aviation assets that are primarily designed for the land battle must be owned and operated by the army.

For years, the MoD has vacillated, postponing any decision. Defence Minister AK Antony recently dismissed the issue as “a family problem.”

For the army, this has been a long-festering sore. Says Lt Gen BS Pawar, who headed the Army Aviation Corps from 2004 to 2006: “the MoD has consistently avoided a decision. Whenever Army Aviation sent up a proposal relating to aviation assets, the MoD would send it to the IAF for comments, knowing full well that would effectively kill the proposal.”

In the absence of MoD clarity, both army and IAF were placing orders for attack helicopters. The army has ordered 60 Rudra from HAL, while the IAF has ordered 16.

Broadsword: In a first, Army to fly attack helicopters: means reduced dependence on IAF
 
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as far as the IAF is concerned they havent thrown in the towel yet...and this going to be long and perhaps dirty turf war...hope it doesnt affect the overall defence preparedness of the nation...
 
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as far as the IAF is concerned they haven't thrown in the towel yet...and this going to be long and perhaps dirty turf war...hope it doesn't affect the overall defence preparedness of the nation...

i hope so too
 
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Who would train those pilots or bear the cost of training ????? eventually reluctant IAF or AAC itself.
 
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Who would train those pilots or bear the cost of training ????? eventually reluctant IAF or AAC itself.

The kind of sophistication that comes with the Apache III block both the IAF and the IA will need to train with the US team first.
 
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