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Indian Army is mobilizing tanks and troops along the internationl boundary with Pakistan-OSINT

Thanks @MastanKhan and I agree with that. And handlers or not IAF would have psychologically speaking so much decimated that they wouldn’t dare to attack us again for several decades.



@Leviza their backers / handlers who are also some of their suppliers would quickly fix the issue with their systems (I’m speaking particularly about spice systems). They could come up with a workaround in the guidance system. And then indians could again launch another same kind of attack.

Men at front know better than me so I have full confidence.
Yes I agree man at the front knows better and we should trust in them
Everyone knows they are now looking at the factors which failed the systems and system behaviour under stressful time and what sort of ppl interacting with them
But I know for a fact that PAF or any other airforce do not have only one planned approach to handle things
Enjoy the moment and prepare for the worst
I am happy with the PAF response and on this information war front our social media guys did excellent work as well
 
Yes I agree man at the front knows better and we should trust in them
Everyone knows they are now looking at the factors which failed the systems and system behaviour under stressful time and what sort of ppl interacting with them
But I know for a fact that PAF or any other airforce do not have only one planned approach to handle things
Enjoy the moment and prepare for the worst
I am happy with the PAF response and on this information war front our social media guys did excellent work as well

Yes I’m happy too but there is a just a little taste of glass being half empty. :enjoy:
 
I suppose indians are saying Pakistan should have caused more damages on india’s Assets as @MastanKhan is saying ? Am I right ?



For how long did you worked with them ?



It’s not about what we did, but what we could have and should have done : shotdown tens of their incoming jets, sunk their submarine.
Then our actions would have not only been taught in Air war colleges, but also in history books lol. But anyway I have also told to @MastanKhan that what is done, is done and we cannot change it. We should move on. But he is old man.
I think now u r just arguing for nothing. Have a good day. If you like Mastankhan so much that you will argue with everyone then thats just not right. If he is old thats no excuse to abuse our country.

thats why isreal kicked the shit of all arabs -in arabe isreal war???????

then the turks the shit out of wahhabis of arab

isrealie,s believe in them selfs--

arabs believe in dollars................same as pakistani,s
Thats why pakistani took pakistan from you. Then they took all the northern areas and half of kashmir. And more recently took out your aurcraft to give them tea
 
I think now u r just arguing for nothing. Have a good day. If you like Mastankhan so much that you will argue with everyone then thats just not right. If he is old thats no excuse to abuse our country.


Thats why pakistani took pakistan from you. Then they took all the northern areas and half of kashmir. And more recently took out your aurcraft to give them tea

Bro listen, you are as patriotic as is MastanKhan and others. That’s a point not to forget.

I agree with you and I myself reminded him several times to not use such language against our Armed Forces.

He seems not be able to change. That’s seems a fact too.
But if we do abstraction of his abuse, his messages have valid points too.

I’m not defending him, I never meet him, I don’t know him personally but I’m defending his points of view because I agree with them.
It’s kind of half full glass and half full glass. I would have loved full glass on the 27th February.

Yes we have different points of view and that’s good. That’s all.

:pakistan:
 
PA armor is already deployed next to the border, all along the IB. Starting from XXX Corps up near Jammu-Pathankot axis, to IV Corps in Lahore, II Corps troops in Okara, then XXXI Corps in Bahwalpur and V Corps in Sindh. Majority of cantonments in these areas are next to the border. All that the Army has to do is order the movement to penetrate across the border. Only 1st Armored Division is deployed away from the border, rest all armored formations are next to IB.
Most of Indian cantonments housing armored formations are located at longer distances from the border. Movement of tanks inside India becomes a big deal then.


Specific for you.

Tagging @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri too:

1. I Corps and II Corps, both Strike Corps, mobilized from their peace time locations in this period (1st post of the thread). 48 hours overall mobilization time.

2. XXI Corps, the third Strike Corps, is still in peacetime. That shall be ready for offensive operations latest by 96 hours from Mobilization order. Orders not passed yet.

Head back to CSD thread. Very sketchy post I had made that time.

Now consider your own reserves and their dispersion. Not asking for specifics, only for you to work out for yourself. This (PDF) is the only medium I can communicate right now with you in.

3. XXI Corps mobilization places it along with XII Corps opposite Sindh. Evaluate options.

4. In all this, do NOT overlook ground realities along LC. Check at your end for major reversals in certain tactical locations for your side over past few days including loss of a GTI which may prove costly for PA for operations in General Area Sialkot. Confirm for YOUR USE and analysis.

5. Consider this sentence of mine very carefully - "....with 26 Feb 19 crossing of LC by IAF for strikes into Pakistani territory, the Simla Agreement was rendered into annals of history. LC became the old CFL of 1948, no more sacrosanct, which every Government of India considered as sacrosanct in aftermath of Simla Agreement of 1972. This marked the final ditching of efforts by PM Modi to still find peace under the conditions of Simla Agreement, when he tried to engage with the then PM Sharief, in spite of Pathankot & Gurdaspur."

regards.

@Cobra Arbok @Gryphon
 
Pakistanis have been going gaga since the Feb 27th incident. It was not a war, just a confrontation like what happens almost everyday at the border. In a confrontation today you can have an a kill, tomorrow we can have an advantage of destroying a bunker or the kill. You can’t call this a victory. Yes downing the MIG 21 & getting the pilot as POW is a moral victory. But if you look at how you reacted even after capturing our pilot in spite of having an upper hand, will tell who was scared & in panic of fighting & escalating.

Even after his capture the Indian Gov.t had a tough stand threatening & dictating Pak Gov.t & establishment to release him immediately or face consequences & you obliged. Releasing the pilot & so quick showed the fear Pakistan was in & that’s our moral victory. Loss of MIG 21 is not a big deal because it is anyway going to be phased out. We lost a Helicopter due to the confrontation. I can accept that as a loss even though you didn’t shoot it down, it’s due to the confrontation. So that’s an economic loss.

The facts is Abhinandan or our MIG 21 crossing over changed the course & the fate of Pakistan. Whether he got over excited to venture into the enemy territory or it was our communication flaws is another debate. But it happened on that day, so luck was on your side on that day. Had he not crossed the LOC on that day, the outcome & losses for Pakistan would have been far far greater. It was our bad luck.

If we had a confrontation with full fleet with exchange of missiles & dog fights between our jets & if you downed our jets - Yes you can call it a victory partially. A full victory is when the enemy surrenders or when your purpose of war is met.. But here we didn’t send even one squadron across, so it was the error of the pilot, where it’s bound to happen. What would happen to a Pakistani jet if it crossed into LOC when you are waiting with your full force other side. It’s a suicide. It’s just Pakistanis trying to pacify each other claiming this a victory, which they have never tasted ever & never will.

In any confrontation where there is ceasefire & no decisive victory, what you look at is the impact of the confrontation. What’s the outcome.

Has India panicked after the war? No. If we have got scared then we will be defensive in our statements & speeches. Has it happened. Will India fear to invade or attack Pakistan again. Do you think it won’t happen again?

Pakistan started all previous wars. Does Pakistan today have the will & guts to start a war with India. No – So your posture now will always be we don’t want war, we are peace lovers, because your Gov.t & establishment knows they cannot win any war with India anymore.

All the previous wars it was Pakistan who was bullying India & imposing casualties & fear, but now it’s India who will impose the same. Pakistan has no choice but to be defensive, because before you used to bully India, volley threats, promote terror or start a war at will as you had a choice run to the international community for ceasefire when you near defeat. India was scared of western isolation & sanctions along with the Chinese threat before, but now India doesn’t fear the west, international community or Chinese.

The biggest victory for India was Pakistani establishment announcing on media, India crossed the international boundary & went back without any response or confrontation. But after the announcement they had to prove to their people they are not cowards, so they brought a full fleet & dropped a bomb in open field just across the LOC. But to Pakistan’s surprise India responded to their attempt to cross LOC immediately. Abhinandan crossed the LOC with an outdated jet. That was your luck

Now coming to the result of this confrontation for Pakistan

Last time the surgical strikes was in LOC, so you could get away by rejecting we didn’t enter the territory. But this time we crossed international boundary, just to prove a point to see if you can reject it. If you don’t announce it, you are putting yourself to risk for future similar incursions freely by India. You had to no choice but to announce it immediately. So this “Indians are cowards” manjan won’t sell anymore with your public. Victory for India.

Pakistan was scared to escalate to a full fledged war. Victory for India

After this bold move, Pakistan in future will be scared to do any Mumbai kind of cowardly attack. India has no more worry or fear for such attacks. Our radars, coast guards, BSF & intelligence was always in extreme pressure to be vigilant, not to miss out on any ploy plotted from across the border. So now it’s an advantage for India, if Pakistan does any such kind of attack, we have the reason & license to invade & attack Pakistan.

So the Mullah’s like Hafeez Saeed, Mullah Omar, Syed Salahuddin will become irrelevant. They won’t be able to plan or execute any terror attack in future. We have given an extra head ache for your Govt & establishment to monitor your own terrorists they don’t plot any attack on India as we will be waiting for such a mistake to be committed by Pakistan. The fear has reversed now for Pakistani people & establishment. Victory for India.

Pakistan is talking claiming there can be another attack before election. This thread itself for eg; is the result of the fear. We have put you on back foot & continuous vigil & agony. This fear will continue even after election. Victory for India

We are making you spend on troop deployment, arms & equipment draining your reserves, which is what India wants. India can afford escalation not Pakistan. As long as cost of Military expenditure, LOC clashes increase, it will keep eating into your developmental funds, pushing your economy lower & lower. Victory for India

We are pushing you more & more into Chinese dependence, as a full fledged war means elimination of Pakistan. You would need China for counter weapons, intelligence & satellite data, for which they will ask you to give access to your territory & other economic benefits. You will slowly lose all your voice, freedom to take decisions & most importantly the power with China. You won’t be able to enforce your laws & decisions on your own land. There will be a day soon where your Gov.t & Military will take full orders making you a bonded labor & thorough slave of China. Victory for India.

As long as these above atmosphere prevails, there will be no development & businesses taken over by China one by one. Local businesses are further going to perish gravely affecting cost of living, increasing unemployment, trade deficit & debts. This is the perfect ingredient for instability, collapse of government & political turmoil. This will increase your crime rate, political, regional & ethnic clashes eventually leading to economic collapse & breakup of the country.

You can see it in your increase in costs for necessities, Rupee struggling to even hold at one level, forget strengthening. Except for loans you have not got any investments so far. Everything is big talks & claims, nothing in reality. So as debts & deficits start putting pressure, your Rupee is further going to tumble leading to hyperinflation & increase in further cost of basic necessities.

Such threads & discussions will give you short term happiness & verbal victory. Your real victory will only be after you decide to surrender to India & accept all its terms. You will able to grow like BD. If not distance will grow not only with India but with Afghanistan, Iran, Israel & others.

And my common sense says, there won’t be any attack or incursions before election or near future at least for a year or two. But yes our soldiers at the border are starving, scared & cowards, so the LOC will remain hot with sniping, shelling & violations continuously as Indians are scared of dying.

Hi,

Very interesting post and very " professionally written "---.

See---that is why I have wanted aircraft like the JH7A's---just a couple of economic zone struck in mumbai on that first night---would have done wonders---.
 
Specific for you.

Tagging @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri too:

1. I Corps and II Corps, both Strike Corps, mobilized from their peace time locations in this period (1st post of the thread). 48 hours overall mobilization time.

2. XXI Corps, the third Strike Corps, is still in peacetime. That shall be ready for offensive operations latest by 96 hours from Mobilization order. Orders not passed yet.

Head back to CSD thread. Very sketchy post I had made that time.

Now consider your own reserves and their dispersion. Not asking for specifics, only for you to work out for yourself. This (PDF) is the only medium I can communicate right now with you in.

3. XXI Corps mobilization places it along with XII Corps opposite Sindh. Evaluate options.

4. In all this, do NOT overlook ground realities along LC. Check at your end for major reversals in certain tactical locations for your side over past few days including loss of a GTI which may prove costly for PA for operations in General Area Sialkot. Confirm for YOUR USE and analysis.

5. Consider this sentence of mine very carefully - "....with 26 Feb 19 crossing of LC by IAF for strikes into Pakistani territory, the Simla Agreement was rendered into annals of history. LC became the old CFL of 1948, no more sacrosanct, which every Government of India considered as sacrosanct in aftermath of Simla Agreement of 1972. This marked the final ditching of efforts by PM Modi to still find peace under the conditions of Simla Agreement, when he tried to engage with the then PM Sharief, in spite of Pathankot & Gurdaspur."

regards.

@Cobra Arbok @Gryphon

Back to hellfire now :) ....no longer vibrio hehe
 
Pakistanis have been going gaga since the Feb 27th incident. It was not a war, just a confrontation like what happens almost everyday at the border. In a confrontation today you can have an a kill, tomorrow we can have an advantage of destroying a bunker or the kill. You can’t call this a victory. Yes downing the MIG 21 & getting the pilot as POW is a moral victory. But if you look at how you reacted even after capturing our pilot in spite of having an upper hand, will tell who was scared & in panic of fighting & escalating.

Even after his capture the Indian Gov.t had a tough stand threatening & dictating Pak Gov.t & establishment to release him immediately or face consequences & you obliged. Releasing the pilot & so quick showed the fear Pakistan was in & that’s our moral victory. Loss of MIG 21 is not a big deal because it is anyway going to be phased out. We lost a Helicopter due to the confrontation. I can accept that as a loss even though you didn’t shoot it down, it’s due to the confrontation. So that’s an economic loss.

The facts is Abhinandan or our MIG 21 crossing over changed the course & the fate of Pakistan. Whether he got over excited to venture into the enemy territory or it was our communication flaws is another debate. But it happened on that day, so luck was on your side on that day. Had he not crossed the LOC on that day, the outcome & losses for Pakistan would have been far far greater. It was our bad luck.

If we had a confrontation with full fleet with exchange of missiles & dog fights between our jets & if you downed our jets - Yes you can call it a victory partially. A full victory is when the enemy surrenders or when your purpose of war is met.. But here we didn’t send even one squadron across, so it was the error of the pilot, where it’s bound to happen. What would happen to a Pakistani jet if it crossed into LOC when you are waiting with your full force other side. It’s a suicide. It’s just Pakistanis trying to pacify each other claiming this a victory, which they have never tasted ever & never will.

In any confrontation where there is ceasefire & no decisive victory, what you look at is the impact of the confrontation. What’s the outcome.

Has India panicked after the war? No. If we have got scared then we will be defensive in our statements & speeches. Has it happened. Will India fear to invade or attack Pakistan again. Do you think it won’t happen again?

Pakistan started all previous wars. Does Pakistan today have the will & guts to start a war with India. No – So your posture now will always be we don’t want war, we are peace lovers, because your Gov.t & establishment knows they cannot win any war with India anymore.

All the previous wars it was Pakistan who was bullying India & imposing casualties & fear, but now it’s India who will impose the same. Pakistan has no choice but to be defensive, because before you used to bully India, volley threats, promote terror or start a war at will as you had a choice run to the international community for ceasefire when you near defeat. India was scared of western isolation & sanctions along with the Chinese threat before, but now India doesn’t fear the west, international community or Chinese.

The biggest victory for India was Pakistani establishment announcing on media, India crossed the international boundary & went back without any response or confrontation. But after the announcement they had to prove to their people they are not cowards, so they brought a full fleet & dropped a bomb in open field just across the LOC. But to Pakistan’s surprise India responded to their attempt to cross LOC immediately. Abhinandan crossed the LOC with an outdated jet. That was your luck

Now coming to the result of this confrontation for Pakistan

Last time the surgical strikes was in LOC, so you could get away by rejecting we didn’t enter the territory. But this time we crossed international boundary, just to prove a point to see if you can reject it. If you don’t announce it, you are putting yourself to risk for future similar incursions freely by India. You had to no choice but to announce it immediately. So this “Indians are cowards” manjan won’t sell anymore with your public. Victory for India.

Pakistan was scared to escalate to a full fledged war. Victory for India

After this bold move, Pakistan in future will be scared to do any Mumbai kind of cowardly attack. India has no more worry or fear for such attacks. Our radars, coast guards, BSF & intelligence was always in extreme pressure to be vigilant, not to miss out on any ploy plotted from across the border. So now it’s an advantage for India, if Pakistan does any such kind of attack, we have the reason & license to invade & attack Pakistan.

So the Mullah’s like Hafeez Saeed, Mullah Omar, Syed Salahuddin will become irrelevant. They won’t be able to plan or execute any terror attack in future. We have given an extra head ache for your Govt & establishment to monitor your own terrorists they don’t plot any attack on India as we will be waiting for such a mistake to be committed by Pakistan. The fear has reversed now for Pakistani people & establishment. Victory for India.

Pakistan is talking claiming there can be another attack before election. This thread itself for eg; is the result of the fear. We have put you on back foot & continuous vigil & agony. This fear will continue even after election. Victory for India

We are making you spend on troop deployment, arms & equipment draining your reserves, which is what India wants. India can afford escalation not Pakistan. As long as cost of Military expenditure, LOC clashes increase, it will keep eating into your developmental funds, pushing your economy lower & lower. Victory for India

We are pushing you more & more into Chinese dependence, as a full fledged war means elimination of Pakistan. You would need China for counter weapons, intelligence & satellite data, for which they will ask you to give access to your territory & other economic benefits. You will slowly lose all your voice, freedom to take decisions & most importantly the power with China. You won’t be able to enforce your laws & decisions on your own land. There will be a day soon where your Gov.t & Military will take full orders making you a bonded labor & thorough slave of China. Victory for India.

As long as these above atmosphere prevails, there will be no development & businesses taken over by China one by one. Local businesses are further going to perish gravely affecting cost of living, increasing unemployment, trade deficit & debts. This is the perfect ingredient for instability, collapse of government & political turmoil. This will increase your crime rate, political, regional & ethnic clashes eventually leading to economic collapse & breakup of the country.

You can see it in your increase in costs for necessities, Rupee struggling to even hold at one level, forget strengthening. Except for loans you have not got any investments so far. Everything is big talks & claims, nothing in reality. So as debts & deficits start putting pressure, your Rupee is further going to tumble leading to hyperinflation & increase in further cost of basic necessities.

Such threads & discussions will give you short term happiness & verbal victory. Your real victory will only be after you decide to surrender to India & accept all its terms. You will able to grow like BD. If not distance will grow not only with India but with Afghanistan, Iran, Israel & others.

And my common sense says, there won’t be any attack or incursions before election or near future at least for a year or two. But yes our soldiers at the border are starving, scared & cowards, so the LOC will remain hot with sniping, shelling & violations continuously as Indians are scared of dying.
1 - Our objective wasn't initiating a war between India and Pakistan. Our objective was to tell India that despite we telling Indians that we would come and surprise you, knowing that Indians had latest air defence systems, knowing that Indians were confident on their su30s bvr capability that is far greater than ours, we still went inside to prove or point that we can hit back at the time and point of our choice.

2 - since we achieved our objective, and we didn't want to escalate further, we sent the pilot back... That was again our decision. Call it our cowardice or whatever, we didn't have interest in waging a full scale war...

3 - Had there been any further escalation from Indian side despite us not wanting to further escalate, we would have escalated surely... There is no doubt about this.

4 - Indian objective of sending jets to warn Pakistan to not meddle in Indian occupied Kashmir affairs failed miserably, because Pakistan wasn't bothered at all... In fact Pakistan humiliated India... and Indian forces.

5 - India was expected to launch an attack, but didn't... I don't know what stopped them from doin doing that... I am sure if this situation had happened between India and Bangladesh, India wouldn't have given a second thought to escalate. Maybe the planners in India thought about 2 decade old infrastructure, industries and other economic zones in India before deciding to keep away... Who knows!

One thing you are right about, if there was a full scale war, we didn't know until when we could have defended because of our disadvantage against you in conventional force... So there was a huge possibility of conventional war turning into nuclear, where you sitting somewhere in Andaman, or me sitting somewhere in UAE wouldn't have survived for more than 10 years...
 
Hi,

Very interesting post and very " professionally written "---.

See---that is why I have wanted aircraft like the JH7A's---just a couple of economic zone struck in mumbai on that first night---would have done wonders---.

and which profession is that taxi driver, second hand car salesman, truck driver, sanitation worker, a failure in life fake wannabe Pakistan hating insecure looser who is proven wrong every time he opens his mouth professional?
 
Pakistanis have been going gaga since the Feb 27th incident. It was not a war, just a confrontation like what happens almost everyday at the border. In a confrontation today you can have an a kill, tomorrow we can have an advantage of destroying a bunker or the kill. You can’t call this a victory. Yes downing the MIG 21 & getting the pilot as POW is a moral victory. But if you look at how you reacted even after capturing our pilot in spite of having an upper hand, will tell who was scared & in panic of fighting & escalating.

Even after his capture the Indian Gov.t had a tough stand threatening & dictating Pak Gov.t & establishment to release him immediately or face consequences & you obliged. Releasing the pilot & so quick showed the fear Pakistan was in & that’s our moral victory. Loss of MIG 21 is not a big deal because it is anyway going to be phased out. We lost a Helicopter due to the confrontation. I can accept that as a loss even though you didn’t shoot it down, it’s due to the confrontation. So that’s an economic loss.

The facts is Abhinandan or our MIG 21 crossing over changed the course & the fate of Pakistan. Whether he got over excited to venture into the enemy territory or it was our communication flaws is another debate. But it happened on that day, so luck was on your side on that day. Had he not crossed the LOC on that day, the outcome & losses for Pakistan would have been far far greater. It was our bad luck.

If we had a confrontation with full fleet with exchange of missiles & dog fights between our jets & if you downed our jets - Yes you can call it a victory partially. A full victory is when the enemy surrenders or when your purpose of war is met.. But here we didn’t send even one squadron across, so it was the error of the pilot, where it’s bound to happen. What would happen to a Pakistani jet if it crossed into LOC when you are waiting with your full force other side. It’s a suicide. It’s just Pakistanis trying to pacify each other claiming this a victory, which they have never tasted ever & never will.

In any confrontation where there is ceasefire & no decisive victory, what you look at is the impact of the confrontation. What’s the outcome.

Has India panicked after the war? No. If we have got scared then we will be defensive in our statements & speeches. Has it happened. Will India fear to invade or attack Pakistan again. Do you think it won’t happen again?

Pakistan started all previous wars. Does Pakistan today have the will & guts to start a war with India. No – So your posture now will always be we don’t want war, we are peace lovers, because your Gov.t & establishment knows they cannot win any war with India anymore.

All the previous wars it was Pakistan who was bullying India & imposing casualties & fear, but now it’s India who will impose the same. Pakistan has no choice but to be defensive, because before you used to bully India, volley threats, promote terror or start a war at will as you had a choice run to the international community for ceasefire when you near defeat. India was scared of western isolation & sanctions along with the Chinese threat before, but now India doesn’t fear the west, international community or Chinese.

The biggest victory for India was Pakistani establishment announcing on media, India crossed the international boundary & went back without any response or confrontation. But after the announcement they had to prove to their people they are not cowards, so they brought a full fleet & dropped a bomb in open field just across the LOC. But to Pakistan’s surprise India responded to their attempt to cross LOC immediately. Abhinandan crossed the LOC with an outdated jet. That was your luck

Now coming to the result of this confrontation for Pakistan

Last time the surgical strikes was in LOC, so you could get away by rejecting we didn’t enter the territory. But this time we crossed international boundary, just to prove a point to see if you can reject it. If you don’t announce it, you are putting yourself to risk for future similar incursions freely by India. You had to no choice but to announce it immediately. So this “Indians are cowards” manjan won’t sell anymore with your public. Victory for India.

Pakistan was scared to escalate to a full fledged war. Victory for India

After this bold move, Pakistan in future will be scared to do any Mumbai kind of cowardly attack. India has no more worry or fear for such attacks. Our radars, coast guards, BSF & intelligence was always in extreme pressure to be vigilant, not to miss out on any ploy plotted from across the border. So now it’s an advantage for India, if Pakistan does any such kind of attack, we have the reason & license to invade & attack Pakistan.

So the Mullah’s like Hafeez Saeed, Mullah Omar, Syed Salahuddin will become irrelevant. They won’t be able to plan or execute any terror attack in future. We have given an extra head ache for your Govt & establishment to monitor your own terrorists they don’t plot any attack on India as we will be waiting for such a mistake to be committed by Pakistan. The fear has reversed now for Pakistani people & establishment. Victory for India.

Pakistan is talking claiming there can be another attack before election. This thread itself for eg; is the result of the fear. We have put you on back foot & continuous vigil & agony. This fear will continue even after election. Victory for India

We are making you spend on troop deployment, arms & equipment draining your reserves, which is what India wants. India can afford escalation not Pakistan. As long as cost of Military expenditure, LOC clashes increase, it will keep eating into your developmental funds, pushing your economy lower & lower. Victory for India

We are pushing you more & more into Chinese dependence, as a full fledged war means elimination of Pakistan. You would need China for counter weapons, intelligence & satellite data, for which they will ask you to give access to your territory & other economic benefits. You will slowly lose all your voice, freedom to take decisions & most importantly the power with China. You won’t be able to enforce your laws & decisions on your own land. There will be a day soon where your Gov.t & Military will take full orders making you a bonded labor & thorough slave of China. Victory for India.

As long as these above atmosphere prevails, there will be no development & businesses taken over by China one by one. Local businesses are further going to perish gravely affecting cost of living, increasing unemployment, trade deficit & debts. This is the perfect ingredient for instability, collapse of government & political turmoil. This will increase your crime rate, political, regional & ethnic clashes eventually leading to economic collapse & breakup of the country.

You can see it in your increase in costs for necessities, Rupee struggling to even hold at one level, forget strengthening. Except for loans you have not got any investments so far. Everything is big talks & claims, nothing in reality. So as debts & deficits start putting pressure, your Rupee is further going to tumble leading to hyperinflation & increase in further cost of basic necessities.

Such threads & discussions will give you short term happiness & verbal victory. Your real victory will only be after you decide to surrender to India & accept all its terms. You will able to grow like BD. If not distance will grow not only with India but with Afghanistan, Iran, Israel & others.

And my common sense says, there won’t be any attack or incursions before election or near future at least for a year or two. But yes our soldiers at the border are starving, scared & cowards, so the LOC will remain hot with sniping, shelling & violations continuously as Indians are scared of dying.

How long it took you to type all the above or you copy pasted it?
 
9 year.. enough ?
i am still working with an international crowd ..
aur kuch bataon ?

I suppose indians are saying Pakistan should have caused more damages on india’s Assets as @MastanKhan is saying ? Am I right ?



For how long did you worked with them ?



It’s not about what we did, but what we could have and should have done : shotdown tens of their incoming jets, sunk their submarine.
Then our actions would have not only been taught in Air war colleges, but also in history books lol. But anyway I have also told to @MastanKhan that what is done, is done and we cannot change it. We should move on. But he is old man.
 
Specific for you.

Tagging @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri too:

1. I Corps and II Corps, both Strike Corps, mobilized from their peace time locations in this period (1st post of the thread). 48 hours overall mobilization time.

2. XXI Corps, the third Strike Corps, is still in peacetime. That shall be ready for offensive operations latest by 96 hours from Mobilization order. Orders not passed yet.

Head back to CSD thread. Very sketchy post I had made that time.

Now consider your own reserves and their dispersion. Not asking for specifics, only for you to work out for yourself. This (PDF) is the only medium I can communicate right now with you in.

3. XXI Corps mobilization places it along with XII Corps opposite Sindh. Evaluate options.

4. In all this, do NOT overlook ground realities along LC. Check at your end for major reversals in certain tactical locations for your side over past few days including loss of a GTI which may prove costly for PA for operations in General Area Sialkot. Confirm for YOUR USE and analysis.

5. Consider this sentence of mine very carefully - "....with 26 Feb 19 crossing of LC by IAF for strikes into Pakistani territory, the Simla Agreement was rendered into annals of history. LC became the old CFL of 1948, no more sacrosanct, which every Government of India considered as sacrosanct in aftermath of Simla Agreement of 1972. This marked the final ditching of efforts by PM Modi to still find peace under the conditions of Simla Agreement, when he tried to engage with the then PM Sharief, in spite of Pathankot & Gurdaspur."

regards.

@Cobra Arbok @Gryphon
PA has placed Brigade sized forces in critical area, like Rahim Yar Khan is defended by an Infantry Brigade from a formation of XXXI Corps. As the IBG attacks are absorbed by infantry formations which could or could not be assisted by maneuver formations, then the armor formations will try to break into India. There is also another talk to create own combined arms forces (Brigade Strength or more) which can effectively penetrate inside India. This is why some Indep Armored Brigades are deployed near borders and shown as Corps Reserves. The doctrine always was to shift the war inside India, capture a portion of area, keep defending it and launch further attacks using it as launching pad. if Indian armored forces get inside Pakistan's borders, it will be difficult to contain them. Firstly, because Paramilitary is lightly equipped, secondly, the reserves will be used up to eject Indians out from that area which could instead have been used to launch counter attacks inside India. This is where the Gunships could come in and stop Indian armor with the help of PAF.
IA armor can exploit Sindh and Rann of kutch(north of it) areas. V-Corps will get reinforced by XII Corps.The strength of Indian Army is still overwhelming, which means Indian troops and equipment will keep pouring in even if PA keeps repulsing Indian Army attacks. The only other option is to keep pressing on the retreating enemy after repulsing an attack. I do expect comedy of errors from both sides in operational planning and as well as combat.
 
9 year.. enough ?
i am still working with an international crowd ..
aur kuch bataon ?

I asked this to you to know how much you know about psychology of our enemies. I know them since more than 30 years. I don’t pretend to know them 100%, but I spent lot of time observing them, I have learnt many things about them. That’s why I agree with what said MastanKhan. And that’s the main point of the discussion.

I pray Allah that we are wrong in the same time.

Nothing personal bro:P
 
Pakistanis have been going gaga since the Feb 27th incident. It was not a war, just a confrontation like what happens almost everyday at the border. In a confrontation today you can have an a kill, tomorrow we can have an advantage of destroying a bunker or the kill. You can’t call this a victory. Yes downing the MIG 21 & getting the pilot as POW is a moral victory. But if you look at how you reacted even after capturing our pilot in spite of having an upper hand, will tell who was scared & in panic of fighting & escalating.

Even after his capture the Indian Gov.t had a tough stand threatening & dictating Pak Gov.t & establishment to release him immediately or face consequences & you obliged. Releasing the pilot & so quick showed the fear Pakistan was in & that’s our moral victory. Loss of MIG 21 is not a big deal because it is anyway going to be phased out. We lost a Helicopter due to the confrontation. I can accept that as a loss even though you didn’t shoot it down, it’s due to the confrontation. So that’s an economic loss.

The facts is Abhinandan or our MIG 21 crossing over changed the course & the fate of Pakistan. Whether he got over excited to venture into the enemy territory or it was our communication flaws is another debate. But it happened on that day, so luck was on your side on that day. Had he not crossed the LOC on that day, the outcome & losses for Pakistan would have been far far greater. It was our bad luck.

If we had a confrontation with full fleet with exchange of missiles & dog fights between our jets & if you downed our jets - Yes you can call it a victory partially. A full victory is when the enemy surrenders or when your purpose of war is met.. But here we didn’t send even one squadron across, so it was the error of the pilot, where it’s bound to happen. What would happen to a Pakistani jet if it crossed into LOC when you are waiting with your full force other side. It’s a suicide. It’s just Pakistanis trying to pacify each other claiming this a victory, which they have never tasted ever & never will.

In any confrontation where there is ceasefire & no decisive victory, what you look at is the impact of the confrontation. What’s the outcome.

Has India panicked after the war? No. If we have got scared then we will be defensive in our statements & speeches. Has it happened. Will India fear to invade or attack Pakistan again. Do you think it won’t happen again?

Pakistan started all previous wars. Does Pakistan today have the will & guts to start a war with India. No – So your posture now will always be we don’t want war, we are peace lovers, because your Gov.t & establishment knows they cannot win any war with India anymore.

All the previous wars it was Pakistan who was bullying India & imposing casualties & fear, but now it’s India who will impose the same. Pakistan has no choice but to be defensive, because before you used to bully India, volley threats, promote terror or start a war at will as you had a choice run to the international community for ceasefire when you near defeat. India was scared of western isolation & sanctions along with the Chinese threat before, but now India doesn’t fear the west, international community or Chinese.

The biggest victory for India was Pakistani establishment announcing on media, India crossed the international boundary & went back without any response or confrontation. But after the announcement they had to prove to their people they are not cowards, so they brought a full fleet & dropped a bomb in open field just across the LOC. But to Pakistan’s surprise India responded to their attempt to cross LOC immediately. Abhinandan crossed the LOC with an outdated jet. That was your luck

Now coming to the result of this confrontation for Pakistan

Last time the surgical strikes was in LOC, so you could get away by rejecting we didn’t enter the territory. But this time we crossed international boundary, just to prove a point to see if you can reject it. If you don’t announce it, you are putting yourself to risk for future similar incursions freely by India. You had to no choice but to announce it immediately. So this “Indians are cowards” manjan won’t sell anymore with your public. Victory for India.

Pakistan was scared to escalate to a full fledged war. Victory for India

After this bold move, Pakistan in future will be scared to do any Mumbai kind of cowardly attack. India has no more worry or fear for such attacks. Our radars, coast guards, BSF & intelligence was always in extreme pressure to be vigilant, not to miss out on any ploy plotted from across the border. So now it’s an advantage for India, if Pakistan does any such kind of attack, we have the reason & license to invade & attack Pakistan.

So the Mullah’s like Hafeez Saeed, Mullah Omar, Syed Salahuddin will become irrelevant. They won’t be able to plan or execute any terror attack in future. We have given an extra head ache for your Govt & establishment to monitor your own terrorists they don’t plot any attack on India as we will be waiting for such a mistake to be committed by Pakistan. The fear has reversed now for Pakistani people & establishment. Victory for India.

Pakistan is talking claiming there can be another attack before election. This thread itself for eg; is the result of the fear. We have put you on back foot & continuous vigil & agony. This fear will continue even after election. Victory for India

We are making you spend on troop deployment, arms & equipment draining your reserves, which is what India wants. India can afford escalation not Pakistan. As long as cost of Military expenditure, LOC clashes increase, it will keep eating into your developmental funds, pushing your economy lower & lower. Victory for India

We are pushing you more & more into Chinese dependence, as a full fledged war means elimination of Pakistan. You would need China for counter weapons, intelligence & satellite data, for which they will ask you to give access to your territory & other economic benefits. You will slowly lose all your voice, freedom to take decisions & most importantly the power with China. You won’t be able to enforce your laws & decisions on your own land. There will be a day soon where your Gov.t & Military will take full orders making you a bonded labor & thorough slave of China. Victory for India.

As long as these above atmosphere prevails, there will be no development & businesses taken over by China one by one. Local businesses are further going to perish gravely affecting cost of living, increasing unemployment, trade deficit & debts. This is the perfect ingredient for instability, collapse of government & political turmoil. This will increase your crime rate, political, regional & ethnic clashes eventually leading to economic collapse & breakup of the country.

You can see it in your increase in costs for necessities, Rupee struggling to even hold at one level, forget strengthening. Except for loans you have not got any investments so far. Everything is big talks & claims, nothing in reality. So as debts & deficits start putting pressure, your Rupee is further going to tumble leading to hyperinflation & increase in further cost of basic necessities.

Such threads & discussions will give you short term happiness & verbal victory. Your real victory will only be after you decide to surrender to India & accept all its terms. You will able to grow like BD. If not distance will grow not only with India but with Afghanistan, Iran, Israel & others.

And my common sense says, there won’t be any attack or incursions before election or near future at least for a year or two. But yes our soldiers at the border are starving, scared & cowards, so the LOC will remain hot with sniping, shelling & violations continuously as Indians are scared of dying.
Battles and wars are not determined in ‘what ifs’, ‘if we had done that or they had done that’ ... Pakistan won the battle (narrative and military) on the 26th and 27th - the facts are clear on that. How that Pakistani victory will impact the course of future battles and/or wars remains to be seen, and discussion on that is separate from the fact that Pakistan emerged victorious during the recent events.

Second, the Pakistani State was not involved in the Mumbai attacks or the Pulwama attack. Pulwama was clearly by local actors due to local compulsions in IOK.

Consider this sentence of mine very carefully - "....with 26 Feb 19 crossing of LC by IAF for strikes into Pakistani territory, the Simla Agreement was rendered into annals of history. LC became the old CFL of 1948, no more sacrosanct, which every Government of India considered as sacrosanct in aftermath of Simla Agreement of 1972. This marked the final ditching of efforts by PM Modi to still find peace under the conditions of Simla Agreement, when he tried to engage with the then PM Sharief, in spite of Pathankot & Gurdaspur."
What I find rather tragic, in terms of the loss of any objectivity in India, is the fact that these significant changes you describe, pushing over a billion and a half people closer to drawn out conflict, if not all out war, have as their trigger an event that was entirely local to IOK in terms of the human and material resources involved, and as its motivation drew upon the barbarities perpetrated upon Kashmiris by the Indian security forces.

Well, with Simla dead, at least Indians won’t be able to use a misinterpretation of the language of Simla to claim that the UNSC Resolutions don’t apply to J&K anymore.
 
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