Indian Air Force faces risk as PAK, China modernise airforce: report

[salwararmy]

Try to send your jets you will know what we would do

bus Hawa main PAAD marte raho..karna kuch nahin....Last time i know an Atlantique crossed Indian Border...result you know.

 

[Misay]

I admire Indian fighter pilot，France, Britain, the United States, Russia。。。。In addition to China's plane，Indian pilots all can Flying plane

By the way it is extremely idiotic of you to expect France to give you the latest technology for the price of jets. Rafale is the most hi tech plane right now along side Typhoon. You will be foolish to think they will give you technology. Technology is a nation's edge. Any nation will never give away technology. Why do you expect your money can buy defense technology and that too from France??!!

People in India can do anything，But we are ordinary people

 

[gslv mk3]

"The Tejas has a safety record that is unbeaten"

Its been flying since 2001 you fool.

Tejas is a disaster for india

Come back when you have an indigenously developed motor glider

 

[acid rain]

What a stupid demand. Unbelievable!

Quality checks..customers demand quality that comes with a brand..For E. G.electronics manufactured in china but quality guaranteed by the brand owner..who takes responsibility if any defects found.

 

[GURU DUTT]

sothis thread is about IAF spokesperson trying to make a case for rafale and increase funding forthere future projects and all pakistani fanboys and internet warriors are going bonkers and celebrating already .... wow

so in short its a case of a begger who is happy & celebrating that his richer naighbour is going thru a tought time while he has no remose over his own pathettik condition .....i wonder what do you call it

 

[$@rJen]

Try to send your jets you will know what we would do

last time i checked its the Pakistanis who cry over Kashmir and waged war against India. and we all knew what was the out come. you are once again welcome to try. let see which port would be on fire tis time.

 

[I M Sikander]

Let's face the hard realities.

India planning to buy 126 jets since 2007, still no final decision.
Pakistan planning for J10, still nothing final.
And finally India settles with inducting LCA and modernizing SU30.
Same with pak, modernizing F16 and inducting more JF17. The fighter jets inventory of both countries seriously lack top quality aircrafts in handsome quantity.

 

[I M Sikander]

PAF modernizing plans are on back foot due to lack of financial muscle, whereas IAF need for modern jets still unanswered despite financial muscle due to stringent and bureaucratic procurement procedures

 

[maxpayne]

India is trying to raise his military for an offensive approach but Pakistan is trying to maintain its defences or deterrence for its survival. Pak should boost her economy so it should have money for defence items

 

[The SC]

Its been flying since 2001 you fool.



Come back when you have an indigenously developed motor glider

Test flying repeated unsuccessful test flights.You must be really a fool after 30 years of test flights to be proud of a very old platform with a forced induction, and patched pieces from all over the place.

 

[Indian Patriot]

The 126 Rafales should have been inducted by now, if not 126 then atleast half the number for sure. The unnecessary babudom delays of India are not desirable. There are only two world class aircraft in IAF now that is MKI and Mirage 2000, the Rafales are badly needed.

The LCA is the classic example of the right plane at the wrong moment. The LCA is a Mig-21 replacement and the Mig-21 is a 3rd generation aircraft. Airforces around the world are inducting or planning to induct 5th generation fighters and we are still stuck with Mig-21 replacement that are yet to be inducted. The LCA should be a trainer aircraft instead of being a frontline fighter.

Airforces will also have to spend on radars. missiles, and other supporting equipment. It makes sense if India forgets quantity and focuses on quality. 270 MKIs, 126 Rafales and 126 modern 4th gen aircraft are more than enough. The Jaguars, Mig-29, Mig-27, Mig-21 should all be retired. Instead use the money to build airstrips on the border and upgrade bases and equipment.

 

[MilSpec]

The 126 Rafales should have been inducted by now, if not 126 then atleast half the number for sure. The unnecessary babudom delays of India are not desirable. There are only two world class aircraft in IAF now that is MKI and Mirage 2000, the Rafales are badly needed.

The LCA is the classic example of the right plane at the wrong moment. The LCA is a Mig-21 replacement and the Mig-21 is a 3rd generation aircraft. Airforces around the world are inducting or planning to induct 5th generation fighters and we are still stuck with Mig-21 replacement that are yet to be inducted. The LCA should be a trainer aircraft instead of being a frontline fighter.

Airforces will also have to spend on radars. missiles, and other supporting equipment. It makes sense if India forgets quantity and focuses on quality. 270 MKIs, 126 Rafales and 126 modern 4th gen aircraft are more than enough. The Jaguars, Mig-29, Mig-27, Mig-21 should all be retired. Instead use the money to build airstrips on the border and upgrade bases and equipment.

I disagree with your assessment. 126 aircrafts that are being bought are bought with our tax money and there needs to be due dilligence in procurement. MoD and IAF have some short comings in establishing PLC costs and were not equipped to evaluate such costs to start with. Along with that I have maintained from start that Dassault won't be able to validate it's claims on life cycel costs of the unit to begin with.


I also disagree with LCA comment of yours. LCA is perfectly capable of doing what it was designed for, and then redesigned for and then again do what it was finally redesigned in it's last iteration. Most of this has been a DRDO _ IAF blunder in mis management and deliberate ghar ki murgi daal barabar syndrome. LCA mkII will be perfectly be capable of performing within the current Air staff HQ req's aslong as they don't change htem again in next two years.

As far retiring Mig 29's are concerned, they still are the most agile and nimble air superiority combat platforms in Air Force and even today can best a MKI with all it's bells and whistles any day. It still remains the first choice for the best ACM pilots in IAF.

Coming to Mig 27M platforms, one thing most people in India forget that it is also a IAF blunder to have agreed to buy Mig27M's without the AL21 Engines and opt for Khatchaturov R-29B which later seems to have had issues, even now there is a good chance for re-engine the units and wth Dare III upgrades, we can have 150 second line fighters available until the shortfall is resolved within a Billion dollar project.

Next you want to retire Jaguars, when some of the airframes are newer than Mirage 2000 airframes?

 

[Indian Patriot]

I disagree with your assessment. 126 aircrafts that are being bought are bought with our tax money and there needs to be due dilligence in procurement. MoD and IAF have some short comings in establishing PLC costs and were not equipped to evaluate such costs to start with. Along with that I have maintained from start that Dassault won't be able to validate it's claims on life cycel costs of the unit to begin with.


I also disagree with LCA comment of yours. LCA is perfectly capable of doing what it was designed for, and then redesigned for and then again do what it was finally redesigned in it's last iteration. Most of this has been a DRDO _ IAF blunder in mis management and deliberate ghar ki murgi daal barabar syndrome. LCA mkII will be perfectly be capable of performing within the current Air staff HQ req's aslong as they don't change htem again in next two years.

As far retiring Mig 29's are concerned, they still are the most agile and nimble air superiority combat platforms in Air Force and even today can best a MKI with all it's bells and whistles any day. It still remains the first choice for the best ACM pilots in IAF.

Coming to Mig 27M platforms, one thing most people in India forget that it is also a IAF blunder to have agreed to buy Mig27M's without the AL21 Engines and opt for Khatchaturov R-29B which later seems to have had issues, even now there is a good chance for re-engine the units and wth Dare III upgrades, we can have 150 second line fighters available until the shortfall is resolved within a Billion dollar project.

Next you want to retire Jaguars, when some of the airframes are newer than Mirage 2000 airframes?

There is a thing as cost inflation. Please bear in mind that the MMRCA deal was floated around 2000-01 odd. The deal has been inked and finalised. What else are they waiting for? In all these years the IAF has thoroughly evaluated the aircraft and selected the best. 126 aircraft and supporting equipment WILL cost money and a LOT of money. If the payment is made now it actually helps the tax payer because then there will be no inflation adjustments.

LCA was designed as a Mig-21 replacement. It does a very good job as a Mig-21 replacement but the problem is that 2015 is the age of 5th generation aircraft and in India we are trying to rebuild a 3rd generation plane. AESA+stealth design has become the standard and goal of every modern air force. LCA was planned in 1980s and we are still to induct them. The aircraft is not bad but its role will be limited in modern high-tech environment and instead of spending money buying 200 LCA the money would be better spend buying additional MKI or Rafale.

On one hand India is investing in the Russian FGFA and on the other hand we want to induct a 3rd generation fighter as well. Does not make any sense.

Mig-29s are same as F-16s, you can upgrade the aircraft to make it relevant but if you have the option to go for a EF-2000 then go for that instead of a Mig-29. I am not calling the fulcrum a bad aircraft, I am saying time has come to retire the aircraft. Mig-21s in the 50s and 60s were the best fighter interceptors in the world, but today is 2015 and things have changed.

The only class of Migs good enough to put up a fight is Mig-29 but even they are aging. There are a lots of ifs and bts attached with Mig 21/23/27. 150 upgraded Mig-27 sounds good but I would rather have 40-50 frontline Rafale/Typhoon than 150 second line of attack Mig-27.

Jaguars are past their prime. Spitfires were the legends of WW2 but new Spitfires are not made today because the generation of the aircraft has evolved. Jaguars are strike aircraft and IAF already has the trump card with MKI. Having 7-8 different types of aircraft in an airforce is not a plus point but a SERIOUS disadvantage. Logistics and maintenance will be badly hit.

Fewer classes of aircraft of the best quality is anyday better than a dozen types of aircraft of average quality.

A 400 strong IAF consisting of MKI, Rafale, 4th generation aircraft like EF-2000 Typhoon will be more effective feared and respected than 900 strong IAF consisting of Mig-27, Jaguars, LCA etc.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Let's face the hard realities.

India planning to buy 126 jets since 2007, still no final decision.
Pakistan planning for J10, still nothing final.
And finally India settles with inducting LCA and modernizing SU30.
Same with pak, modernizing F16 and inducting more JF17. The fighter jets inventory of both countries seriously lack top quality aircrafts in handsome quantity.

wellthere is another fact thateven as we talk IAF has some 320 4th gen fighters backed by worlds best AWACS & ground based Radrs (AESA & PESA )

soas most pakistanies love to beleve that indian air force is a sitting duck then your searouslli wrong ... have a nice day

 

[MilSpec]

There is a thing as cost inflation. Please bear in mind that the MMRCA deal was floated around 2000-01 odd. The deal has been inked and finalised. What else are they waiting for? In all these years the IAF has thoroughly evaluated the aircraft and selected the best. 126 aircraft and supporting equipment WILL cost money and a LOT of money. If the payment is made now it actually helps the tax payer because then there will be no inflation adjustments.

Not true, What was envisaged in 2001 was MRCA with front runners Mirage 2000 and Mig29's with no competative evaluation but a direct purchase. The RFI changed the deal into a MMRCA in 2006, and RFP's arriving in 2007, and shortlists happening in 2011/2012.

LCA was designed as a Mig-21 replacement. It does a very good job as a Mig-21 replacement but the problem is that 2015 is the age of 5th generation aircraft and in India we are trying to rebuild a 3rd generation plane. AESA+stealth design has become the standard and goal of every modern air force. LCA was planned in 1980s and we are still to induct them. The aircraft is not bad but its role will be limited in modern high-tech environment and instead of spending money buying 200 LCA the money would be better spend buying additional MKI or Rafale.

LCA is thoroughly a 4th gen aircraft, please get your facts correct. LCA will give IAF th ability to talor tranches of aircrafts to cater to it's specific requirement without having to pay through their noses as it has to for any foreign platform.

On one hand India is investing in the Russian FGFA and on the other hand we want to induct a 3rd generation fighter as well. Does not make any sense.

Sorry to be blunt but, your assessment of LCA as a gen 3 a/c is a ludicrous comment and reflect your lack of understanding of combat air crafts and their efficacy.

Mig-29s are same as F-16s, you can upgrade the aircraft to make it relevant but if you have the option to go for a EF-2000 then go for that instead of a Mig-29. I am not calling the fulcrum a bad aircraft, I am saying time has come to retire the aircraft.

Why would you retire an airframe which has more than half of it's airframe life intact and is the most potent WVR system in your arsenal, and has an active upgrade program?

The only class of Migs good enough to put up a fight is Mig-29 but even they are aging. There are a lots of ifs and bts attached with Mig 21/23/27. 150 upgraded Mig-27 sounds good but I would rather have 40-50 frontline Rafale/Typhoon than 150 second line of attack Mig-27.

Most mig 21's are already decommisioned, Mig 23's were decommisioned and mothballed six years ago, There are Some Mig 27 units still in use. As far as your MMRCA aircrafts, for the price of 10 of them you can keep the the entire 120-150 mig 27 airframes in air for another 10 years. that is an incredible trade off.

Jaguars are past their prime. Spitfires were the legends of WW2 but new Spitfires are not made today because the generation of the aircraft has evolved. Jaguars are strike aircraft and IAF already has the trump card with MKI. Having 7-8 different types of aircraft in an airforce is not a plus point but a SERIOUS disadvantage. Logistics and maintenance will be badly hit.

you still realise that less than half of Jag airframe life time has been utilised, apart from that , it is optimised as a low level strike fighters and has a better service rate than that of mirage 2000's.

A 400 strong IAF consisting of MKI, Rafale, 4th generation aircraft like EF-2000 Typhoon will be more effective feared and respected than 900 strong IAF consisting of Mig-27, Jaguars, LCA etc.

Wonder why doesn't USAF replace all its fighters by just F22 Raptors then.... Right tool for the right job, MKI and MMRCA's are very expensive aircrafts, LCA's Jaguars, Mig 29's and Mirage 2000's at thier respective time of indctions were best bang for the buck options. they are still relevant in the mix. Peace time CAP missions, CAS and Strike packages, needs cost effective platforms. jaguars, Mig29's, M2K's and LCA will provide the same variety which will be relevant for the next two decades.