Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

[stax]

Guess you have heard the word business. They are not doing it out of charity.

I know business, and I also know a good business man should not break his contract, otherwise it's not fair

 

[DeathGod]

I'm not jealous or frustrated about the relations of India and Russia. Since there is nothing to jealous or frustrated. I just wonder about this deal. If Russia do such things to China, I'll be very angry. But why I don't see any complaint from Indian

As a client we should be angry and we were angry, some of us will still be angry but as a friend of Russia who has stood with us on countless occasions, we can make a few consessions esp when we know that we wont be getting an AC from any other nation and that cost overruns can occur for such massive projects.

 

[sudhir007]

Sevmash needs more workers - BarentsObserver


Sevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk Oblast, will need at least 1500 new workers to complete construction of the Prirazlomnaya platform.

According to Deputy General Director Vasily Ugryumov at Sevmash, the shipyard is in need of a large number of qualified workers, Severodvinsk newspaper Korabelnaya Storona reports.

In addition to the finishing stages of construction of the ice-strengthened platform Prirazlomnaya, Sevmash will be busy with the modernization of the Russian aircraft carrier “Admiral Gorshkov” for the Indian Navy.

Sevmash shipyard in 2008 had 25 000 workers according to Wikipedia.

 

[scuthan]

so r u worried abt indian navy going fishing.

He actually means Gorshkov is a baiting project for india. the price is INDEED exorbitant and i seriously suspect that there will be more delays since russia in itself has difficulty in making it. Russia partially lost its capacity to produce CV because it lost its CV producer in Ukraine after its dissolution. Anyway, i do think having Mig29s are wise options for indian Navy.

 

[ptldM3]

Let me start off by saying i worked for a company that built ships. Firstly, the ships we built were 165ft, the Gorshkov is over 800 ft. It is not uncommon for the projected price to go up, as a matter of fact it usually does. One of our ships were extended by only just two feet, and as a result the cost when thrue the roof. It took us about 3 years to built a ship. We had about 17 department including HVAC, metal fab, carpenders, electricians ect. it took three years working 18-20 hours a day for each department to complete a small 165 ft ships, and we always had problems, even something minor usually required the engineers to re-right the blue prints, and in tern the job took longer and the longer the job takes the more money it cost. Our company not only built ships but we also repaired them. The repair part is very difficult because the ships had to be carefully striped which was time consuming because if things are rushed parts of the ship can be damaged. Things that often seem simple are not. For instance, hundreds of miles of electrical wire have to be carefully removed, it seem simple. However, every ship is different, and some ships have completely different sonars, radar ect which, in tern, made it difficult for the electricians . It was also not uncommon for the ship to be several hundred or several thousand hours behind schedule. When ships are striped and refited prolems accure. For instance, HVAC may want to run pipe, but metal fab may want to do something else, so in tern the job will take longer than expected. Some times Forman made mistakes reading blue prints, and sometimes engineers made mistakes creating blue prints, so things had to be repaired or re-worked on a regular bases. My point is the Gorshkov is an 800 foot monster, everything is bigger compared to the ships we build, more complex, requires more men, requires better electronic, and it requires specialist . It does not suprise me that the cost went up as much as it did. Small problems end up costing millions of dollars, with a ship like the Gorshkov those same problems end up costing 10X more. One must also take into account all of the changes that accure during construction. For instance, it may be decided that the bow thruster may need to shrink in size or the planers decide they want to hire more men because the deadline is approaching, with more men comes in-experience and with in-experience comes problems.

This is a very general and vague but i think most of you get the point.

 

[jha]

nuclear powered monster

seems a mistake....

 

[Maddy2105]

nuclear powered monster

seems a mistake....

Its going to be a monster none the less

 

[Veer]

So you confirm that Russia is not a sincere friend of India?
What is the price of Gorshkov in the original contract? I think a friend should not break its promise.

Don't talk crap about friendship, china claims to be a friend of pakistan then

1.) Why China have refused to bailout Pakistan when they need you because of the threat of being bankrupt.

2.) Why China is building Dam in Tibet to steal the water of Pakistan of Indus and Satluj.

You are using pakistan for your gains.

 

[ptldM3]

nuclear powered monster

seems a mistake....

My mistake, i thought it was.

 

[gogbot]

My mistake, i thought it was.

Only the french and Americans have Nuclear powered carriers.

China has announces its intentions to join that club. with their 2nd generation carriers

Russia was originally supposed have a Nuclear carrier. But due to Financial constrains it could not. Since it has better economic time now. It might still make one.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Only the french and Americans have Nuclear powered carriers.

China has announces its intentions to join that club. with their 2nd generation carriers

Russia was originally supposed have a Nuclear carrier. But due to Financial constrains it could not. Since it has better economic time now. It might still make one.

Its a surprise that Russia still don't have a Nucear powered one. Why didn't they created one in Cold war era.

 

[Iggy]

Its a surprise that Russia still don't have a Nucear powered one. Why didn't they created one in Cold war era.

They have nuclear powered missile cruiser..They have to capacity to build one

 

[gogbot]

Its a surprise that Russia still don't have a Nucear powered one. Why didn't they created one in Cold war era.

They wanted to USSR was building two of them. When their economy hit hard times.

Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carriers

one functional unit, Admiral Kuznetsov. The only other ship in her class, Varyag, was never commissioned and was sold to China .

Admiral Kuznetsov

Initially Western analysts anticipated that Admiral Kuznetsov would have a Combined Nuclear And Steam (CONAS) propulsion plant similar to the Kirov class battlecruisers and the SSV-33 command ship. However, Admiral Kuznetsov as completed was conventionally powered by eight gas-fired boilers and four steam turbines, each producing 50,000 hp (37 MW), driving four shafts with fixed-pitch propellers. Her maximum speed is 29 knots (54 km/h), and her range at maximum speed is 3,800 miles (6,100 km). At 18 knots (33 km/h), her maximum range is 8,500 miles (13,700 km).

Admiral Kuznetsov serving as the flagship of the Russian Navy. She was originally commissioned in the Soviet Navy, and was intended to be the lead ship of her class, but the only other ship of her class, Varyag, has never been commissioned and was sold to the People's Republic of China by Ukraine under the condition she would never be refitted for combat. Kuznetsov was named after the Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov.

I had to be scaled back and powered conventionally.

And since the ships were built i Ukraine, the sister ship of the Admiral Kuznetsov the Varyag(which was inclomplete and just a Hull) was left with the Ukrainians who then proceeded to sell it to the Chinese with the gentlemen s agreement that it would not be used for military role.

In April 1998, Ukrainian Trade Minister Roman Shpek announced the winning bid—US$20 million from a small Hong Kong company called the Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd. Chong Lot proposed to tow Varyag out of the Black Sea, through the Suez Canal and around southern Asia to Macau, where they would moor the ship and convert it into a floating hotel and gambling parlor. It would be similar to the attractions Kiev in Tianjin and Minsk at Minsk World in Shenzhen.

However, considerable evidence suggested that the future of Varyag was linked to the People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and its program to develop an aircraft carrier.

Before the auction was closed, officials in Macau had warned Chong Lot that they would not be permitted to berth Varyag in the harbor. The sale was carried out anyway. Chong Lot is owned by a Hong Kong firm called Chin Luck (Holdings) Company. Four of Chin Luck's six board members live in Yantai, China where a major Chinese Navy shipyard is located. Chin Luck's chairman is a former career military officer with the People's Liberation Army. However, the large involvement of former PLA officers is not necessarily a sign that the firm is a cover organization, because, for historical reasons, it is not unusual in mainland China for a company that actually is involved in tourism or travel to be controlled by former PLA officers.

Due to the poor condition of the hull, it was thought highly unlikely that the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) would commission the carrier; rather, many analysts suggested that the PLAN intended to examine the carrier as a model for an indigenous carrier to be built later. Others countered that the carrier did not represent modern technology; the PLAN could probably have learned all they needed from the Varyag without towing it all the way to China.

That's what happened with the Soviets attempts at Building a nuclear carrier.

A carrier without a nuclear reactor.
And the other half completed sold to China

 

[jha]

ANYWAYS KUZNETSHOV is more like a floating fortress with immense capability to defend itself from hostile missiles and planes... hence it does not require that many warships along with it....this however has taken a toll on the no. of aircrafts....

anyways back to the topic...

 

[Chanakyaa]

One good implication of the "Delays" by Russia has been the understanding by India that they can only protect their strategic interests by Going Indegenous .. The IAC .

Known as ADS earlier has been in pipeline since Two Decades but the real work begain only a few years back after the Gorskov NightMare.

Gorshkov will be perhaps the Last foreign Aircraft carrier in IN.