Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

[sancho]

Why not have it if we can afford it? And in a naval warfare, an aircraft carrier adds a significant strategic depth to the navy. Its a decisive force which may well swing the balance of the naval war. In India's case, we need to understand why we need it in case of a war with Pakistan (God forbid, may that never happen). Karachi is a port on which Pakistan depends heavily for its sea route trade & many other things. In case of a war, India will always try to block Karachi port thru sea route. Aircraft carrier will be very decisive in that case.
Also in Ground war, AC will help open another front for air attacks to support the ground army. Read Pakistani analysists' blogs on the net. They admit that indian AC will be a menace for Pakistan in case of a full scale war.

But not with only 16 Mig, that is far to less airpower to make an attack from sea! We can only try to get sea control but, nothing more.

This deal is totally crazy, we should pay nearly 3 B $ for such an old ship which needed 8 years for modernising? England builds the NEW Queen Elizabeth class for the same price, in the same time and has 36 fighters on board!

 

[ejaz007]

Updates & Contracts:


Feb 22/09:

The?Hindu quotes UAC VP and RAC MiG Director-General Mikhail Aslanovich Pogosyan, who says that Indian naval pilots have been training in Russia since October 2008. The theory portion of the course is done, and:

“Indian pilots are already training to fly the MiG-29Ks from a shore-based facility. They have been doing even 15 sorties in a day during the winter. We expect the first four MiG-29Ks to arrive in India later this year, with the other 12 being delivered by 2010.”

So far, 4 certified MiG-29Ks have been transferred to the Indian project team in Russia, after Russian test pilots have conducted carrier landing check-outs. After the course is complete, India’s Navy hopes to continue their own pilots’ training by using a Shore-based Test Facility (SBTF) built with Russian help at INS Hansa in Goa.

Complete article is here:

INS Vikramaditya Hits Delay, Cost Increases

 

[ejaz007]

There is another thread on the same topic. Perhaps we should merge both.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...indian-acquisition-gorshkov-5.html#post310275

 

[ejaz007]

Russia Seeks USD 2.9 billion as Final Amount for INS Vikramaditya Aircraft Carrier Deal
Dated 22/2/2009


Press Trust of India has reported that Russia is seeking an additional USD 700 million for the refitting, repairs and delivery of INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier.

Quoting Defense Ministry sources here are excerpts from the PTI report:

-- Russia is seeking an additional USD 700 million from India for the repair and refit works it is carrying out in Sevmash Shipyard

-- Russian decision to seek USD 700 million dollars was conveyed to India on February 10 during the bilateral meeting to re-negotiate the Russian demand for additional payment for the 44,500-tonne warship

-- Sevmash Shipyard was also stressing on an immediate release of USD 190 million for continuing the repair work

-- USD 700 million demand was over and above the additional INR 1.2 billion the Russians were already demanding for the warship bought by India in 2004 for USD 974 million

-- Russia would agree on a final price of USD 2.9 billion


Russia Seeks USD 2.9 billion as Final Amount for INS Vikramaditya Aircraft Carrier Deal | India Defence

 

[TruthSeeker]

Next US Carrier Class Costs at $8B each

The Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carriers (or Ford-class) will be the next generation supercarrier for the United States Navy. Before its redesignation as the Ford-class (CVN-78), this new class of carriers was known as the CVNX carrier program ("X" meaning "in development") and then as the CVN-21 carrier program.

Carriers of the Ford class will incorporate many new design features including a new nuclear reactor design (the A1B reactor), stealthier features to help reduce radar profile, electromagnetic catapults, advanced arresting gear, and reduced crewing requirements. The U.S. Navy believes that with the addition of the most modern equipment and extensive use of automation they will be able to reduce the crew requirement and the total cost of future aircraft carriers. The primary recognition feature compared to earlier supercarriers will be the more aft location of the navigation "island".

Construction began on components of CVN-78 in the spring of 2007,and is planned to finish in 2015. It will be constructed at Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding in Newport News, Virginia, the only shipyard in the United States capable of building and refueling nuclear powered aircraft carriers. It is estimated to cost at least $8 billion excluding the $5 billion spent on R&D and is not representative of the cost of future members of the class.

A total of three carriers have been authorized for construction.

 

[Fennecus]

The Russians are becoming increasingly unreliable and erratic.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged

 

[TruthSeeker]

This aircraft carrier and blimp are available on e-bay for $35,000:

 

[LCA]

LiveFist: Cochin Shipyard to build 5 aircraft carriers

Cochin Shipyard to build 5 aircraft carriers

The keel of India's first indigenous aircraft carrier, to be the second warship christened INS Vikrant, will be laid on February 28 at Kochi. But it is now clear that while Cochin Shipyards will build three aircraft carriers in the current 37,500-ton category (the second and third are to be christened INS Viraat and INS Vishaal apparently), design work has already begun in earnest to develop and build two more aircraft carriers with not only much larger displacements, but possibly nuclear propulsion as well.


Unlike what the model in the photograph depicts, the new INS Vikrant will almost definitely be inaugurated with a flight of MiG-29Ks as its commissioning deck birds rather than the Naval Light Combat Aircraft (the Express has a report about this today). More details soon.


I am not sure about 5 but definitely 3 AC are on place by 2022.

 

[heartwinlion]

LiveFist: Cochin Shipyard to build 5 aircraft carriers

Cochin Shipyard to build 5 aircraft carriers

The keel of India's first indigenous aircraft carrier, to be the second warship christened INS Vikrant, will be laid on February 28 at Kochi. But it is now clear that while Cochin Shipyards will build three aircraft carriers in the current 37,500-ton category (the second and third are to be christened INS Viraat and INS Vishaal apparently), design work has already begun in earnest to develop and build two more aircraft carriers with not only much larger displacements, but possibly nuclear propulsion as well.


Unlike what the model in the photograph depicts, the new INS Vikrant will almost definitely be inaugurated with a flight of MiG-29Ks as its commissioning deck birds rather than the Naval Light Combat Aircraft (the Express has a report about this today). More details soon.


I am not sure about 5 but definitely 3 AC are on place by 2022.

Hi good that is very good new if we have the technology to develop indigenous A/C it is much cheaper and good for our industries coze of economic slow down in west and it now coming in India also. It is better to support our industries and make job for our people.

 

[LCA]

Yes it is much cheaper than gorky.

First IAC cost about less than a 1billion $.
and its desplacement is about 37000-40000 tone,similar to gorky.

 

[heartwinlion]

Yes it is much cheaper than gorky.

First IAC cost about less than a 1billion $.
and its desplacement is about 37000-40000 tone,similar to gorky.

that is what I want to say we have to support our industries Ist. why we go for vidasi when we have technology

 

[CrazyEagle9]

With Russia hiking Gorshkov price, India goes for indigenous carrier

New Delhi, Feb 23 : As Russia continues escalating the price for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov much to the chagrin of the defence establishment here, India is all set for the keel laying of its first indigenous carrier for which Rs.3,260 crore (Rs.32.60 billion/654 million dollar) has initially been allocated.

The keel will be laid at the Cochin Shipyard Feb 28.

“The present sanction for the construction of the aircraft carrier under Project-71 (as it is technically named) is Rs.3,260 crore (Rs.32.60 billion),” a defence source said.

However, this is likely to rise considerably, given the history of India's indigenous defence projects. For instance, Rs.150 million were initially allocated for the Arjun main battle tank that has been almost four decades in the making and which has so far cost Rs.3.5 billion.

The carrier, with a 40,000-tonne displacement, will be ready to sail by 2011. It is not only the first military warship to be built at Cochin Shipyard but also the largest military vessel to be constructed at any Indian yard.

“The aircraft carrier will be a big boost for the shipbuilding capability of the country. We will become the fourth nation besides the US, Russia and France to have the capability of building a carrier,” an Indian Navy official told IANS.

Britain also the capability to build carriers but these are now in shambles.

"Work on the construction of the aircraft carrier started in 2006. It required nearly 300 people working on the ship designing for 2-3 years. It will be a spin-off for the industry because steel, lagging material, generators and other things are indigenous," the official added.

The building of a ship can be divided into seven phases: design, construction planning, work prior to keel laying, ship erection, launching, final outfitting, and sea trials.

What makes the carrier special is that it is built with steel produced by state-owned SAIL (Steel Authority of India ltd.) The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) are also involved in the project.

India, which plans to operate three aircraft carriers by 2015, is also purchasing the Admiral Gorshkov, which was built in 1987. However, the deal has sparked a lot of controversy as Russia now is demanding a staggering $2.9 billion, which is almost twice as much as was originally agreed on.

“India needs the Gorshkov to replace (its sole aircraft carrier) INS Viraat, which is currently undergoing refurbishment. We were expecting a price hike of $300-400 million during the refit in Russia of the Gorshkov but we were stunned when Russia proposed a cost escalation of $1.2 billion in 2007,” another senior navy official said.

That pushed up the cost from Rs.1.5 billion to $2.7 billion and the Russians are now demanding $2.9 billion.

With Russia hiking Gorshkov price, India goes for indigenous carrier .:. NewKerala - India 's Top Online Newspaper

 

[ejaz007]

Updates & Contracts:

Feb 28/09:

The keel for India’s “Project-71” 37.5t-40t indigenous carrier project is scheduled to be laid at the Cochin Shipyard in Kerala. While the project currently has a budget of INR 32.6 billion (currently about $650 million), few observers believe that the final cost will remain on budget.

Delivery is scheduled for 2014-2015, and these carriers are expected to carry their own complement of MiG-29K fighters. Plans exist for a naval variant of India’s LCA Tejas lightweight fighters, but India’s history of extremely late and failed weapons projects suggests caution. Even a successful project is unlikely to induct a naval Tejas before 2016-2018, leaving both of India’s future carrier classes strongly dependent on Russian goodwill. The Hindu | Indian Express.

Feb 23/09:

Indian media report that Russia has demanded another $700 million, on top of their demand for an additional $1.2 billion which had been approved by India’s cabinet, on top of the original $947 million contract. The shipyard is also demanding $190 million immediately, in order to continue work. Delivery is still scheduled for 2012, but this assumes the schedule promises are kept, and that there are no work stoppages or other production delays owning to contract negotiations.

Assuming that this is in fact Russia’s final demand, it would bring the asking price for the Gorshkov to $2.85 billion. That figure could buy a similar 45.7t new-build America Class LHA-R medium carrier with funds left over, and might even buy one of Britain’s new 65t CVF Class carriers. Hindustan Times | Indian Express | Forecast International report/op-ed | Indian Express op-ed.

Complete article is here:

INS Vikramaditya: Waiting for Gorshkov…

 

[ejaz007]

that is what I want to say we have to support our industries Ist. why we go for vidasi when we have technology

The answer is quite simple. Some earn commission I mean big commission from such deals and India is notorious for this type of business deals.