India wants to fight Pakistan conventionally,Pakistan wants to jump from subconventional to nuclear

[GURU DUTT]

asfor whole pakistani nation its funny when pakistani kids celebrate the fact that indian army could not have had tea & nashta at lahore club in 1965 ... but forget what pakistan lost due to that war in next 53 years but india gained and where they were before 1965 war and where they are now ... but stil celbrating that indian army lost tea and nashta but look at ordinary pakistanies 65% of them cant even get two square meals a day

 

[scorpionx]

Funny you should mention that:

Stop talking about things you clearly don't understand, it makes you look stupid.



No, I mean just because he was doesn't mean the whole military/government backed him.



We both have way too many people to be wiped out completely.

I agree. But given India' massive growth both population wise, urbanization, the nature of its regional economic and trade balance it has better chance to rise again compared to Pakistan.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I don't.



If your leadership thought it was a bluff, they'd have tried to call it.

kidd you have no idea whats going on with you but just weight for six more months before kist/imdaad from saudi arabia & uae evaporates

 

[Hamza913]

but forget what pakistan lost due to that war

We didn't lose anything lol (other than people and equipment, but so did you).

look at ordinary pakistanies 65% of them cant even get two square meals a day

kidd you have no idea whats going on

No, YOU really have no idea what's going on.

 

[IceCold]

Question is, can Pakistan risk using it's TNWs on Indian IBGs which would give India an opportunity to launch a full scale N-attack on major Pakistani cities which are infact not too many?

Why not? First Pakistan used it on its own territory on the invading forces (India) and Second by that time Pakistani strategic nukes will already be ready and pointed towards India and a direct hotline established. Meaning the ball will be in your court whether you intend to escalate it to Full scale N attack resulting in MAD or backing down. In either case dont just assume that India will launch a full scale N attack on Pakistani cities without getting Delhi and Mumbai nuked out of existence as well.

 

[GURU DUTT]

We didn't lose anything lol (other than people and equipment, but so did you).







No, YOU really have no idea what's going on.

look at your nation and its growth trajectory and those like malasia , S korea or even india in same period wher were they then and where were you then with full US support and where are they now and where are you now

i know more tha what you and all of your freinds can ever know but weight and watch its gonna be real tamasha oon and what your best friends gonna do to you .... in compario what us did to you will look like mothers lap

Why not? First Pakistan used it on its own territory on the invading forces (India) and Second by that time Pakistani strategic nukes will already be ready and pointed towards India and a direct hotline established. Meaning the ball will be in your court whether you intend to escalate it to Full scale N attack resulting in MAD or backing down. In either case dont just assume that India will launch a full scale N attack on Pakistani cities without getting Delhi and Mumbai nuked out of existence as well.

guess what it had happened twice but looks like you dint learn in both times .. ayub thaught india wont open punjab front and musharraf thaught india wont go for all out war but we all know what happenned

 

[IceCold]

guess what it had happened twice but looks like you dint learn in both times .. ayub thaught india wont open punjab front and musharraf thaught india wont go for all out war but we all know what happenned

Oh but we have learned it well, which is why we are prepared on all fronts. Plus back than both nations did not posses the means to blow each other out of their existence, now we do. So stakes are much higher compared to 65. Do you think if Pakistan had nukes 71 would have happened?

 

[scorpionx]

Why not? First Pakistan used it on its own territory on the invading forces (India) and Second by that time Pakistani strategic nukes will already be ready and pointed towards India and a direct hotline established. Meaning the ball will be in your court whether you intend to escalate it to Full scale N attack resulting in MAD or backing down. In either case dont just assume that India will launch a full scale N attack on Pakistani cities without getting Delhi and Mumbai nuked out of existence as well.

I am not assuming anything and thank you for giving such a thoughtful insight. Now, my question is if a Low yield N-attack is carried out from your Brigade level, it will take Indians hardly minutes to escalate to a full scale holocaust. Would that be more than launching your strategic nukes? I guess, no.

And given, India for long invested enormous manpower and resources to build its own BMD and spending billions on Russian and Israeli BMDs, its major cities will be far more protected than yours. Also, India will enjoy advantage of its geograpgic vastness too. Its most prosperous cities are today moved far away from Pakistan, hence better chance to survive from a missile attack.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Oh but we have learned it well, which is why we are prepared on all fronts. Plus back than both nations did not posses the means to blow each other out of their existence, now we do. So stakes are much higher compared to 65. Do you think if Pakistan had nukes 71 would have happened?

what could have you done nuced whole est pakistan ,,, what would india had done dont forget india had nuce tech then as they tested its first one in 1974 meaning it was prepairing already for it in late 1960s

 

[IceCold]

I am not assuming anything and thank you for giving such a thoughtful insight. Now, my question is if a Low yield N-attack is carried out from your Brigade level, it will take Indians hardly minutes to escalate to a full scale holocaust. Given, India for long invested enormous manpower and resources to build its own BMD and spending billions on Russian and Israeli BMDs, its major cities will be far more protected than yours. Also, India will enjoy advantage of its geograpgic vastness too. Its most prosperous cities are today moved far away from Pakistan, hence better chance to survive from a missile attack.

And here comes the BMDs. Even the most technology advanced nations such as the US do not have the means to successfully intercept an incoming missile which BY THE WAY WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE TIME TO REACT THAN AN INDIAN BMD WHICH WILL HAVE ONLY FEW MINUTES TO REACT TO MISSILES FIRED FROM PAKISTAN towards India. So The only thing protected in this case will be your ego till the time a nuclear exchange does take place.
Size advantage you do hold however so does Pakistan possess the means. This is why it is referred to as MAD. It does not matter how big you are because Pakistan has already brought this to its strategic calculus and possess enough missiles and nukes to blow India out of its existence. 2nd strike capability is already in work and with upcoming Chinese subs, it will be fully integrated with Pakistan strategic forces. Naturally that would also mean there would be no Pakistan either but do not for a second assume anyone will be a winner in a nuclear exchange, irrespective of size difference.

what could have you done nuced whole est pakistan ,,, what would india had done dont forget india had nuce tech then as they tested its first one in 1974 meaning it was prepairing already for it in late 1960s

Why would we nuke east Pakistan, if nuclear weapons were there, there would have been no war. Our nuclear policy explicitly states that if large part of Pakistan armed forces are destroyed or large chunk of our territory captured, it would result in nuclear weapons being used. It wouldnt had been different back than.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

in short

India : merre paas bharmose , Pinaka 1-2 & rafale-MKI and S400-AAD-PAD-BMD+Barak-8 hai & economy bhee

Pakistan : oye chotte ainoo NASR te tactical atim bomb wikhayeen

View attachment 535613

babur for brahamos, A100 answer to panika, jf 17 block 3 answer to rafale, ly 80 anwer to s400. Ababeel answer to AAD-PAD BMD. and economy of Pakistan is not small either.
and not to forget that rafale and S400 are just on paper until now.
But NASR is an extra ingredient.

 

[scorpionx]

And here comes the BMDs. Even the most technology advanced nations such as the US do not have the means to successfully intercept an incoming missile which BY THE WAY WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE TIME TO REACT THAN AN INDIAN BMD WHICH WILL HAVE ONLY FEW MINUTES TO REACT TO MISSILES FIRED FROM PAKISTAN towards India. So The only thing protected in this case will be your ego till the time a nuclear exchange does take place.
Size advantage you do hold however so does Pakistan possess the means. This is why it is referred to as MAD. It does not matter how big you are because Pakistan has already brought this to its strategic calculus and possess enough missiles and nukes to blow India out of its existence. 2nd strike capability is already in work and with upcoming Chinese subs, it will be fully integrated with Pakistan strategic forces. Naturally that would also mean there would be no Pakistan either but do not for a second assume anyone will be a winner in a nuclear exchange, irrespective of size difference.


Why would we nuke east Pakistan, if nuclear weapons were there, there would have been no war. Our nuclear policy explicitly states that if large part of Pakistan armed forces are destroyed or large chunk of our territory captured, it would result in nuclear weapons being used. It wouldnt had been different back than.

So, if Pakistan's reliance on TNW to stop a conventional war hinges on one, the vulnerability of India's BMD and two, SLCMs the discussion will enter into a much broader dimension. Please, understand my point. I am not taking this as a boxing match where someone in the end will rise his hands up. My point is very simple, so is the connotation of India's N-doctrine. Can Pakistan risk using Nasr given it would lead to its almost annihilation? Isn't relying on its conventional deterrence would be more logical? Isn't this concept of TNW at brigade level too risky first of all? In case of India, where the decision must have prime ministerial approval, in Pakistan a brigade commander will take that decision according to his own judgement. Can you spot the difference?

I am just trying to understand the logic behind TNW here. If you want to win/ stall a conventional war, relying on N bomb no matter how small it is, is a bad, rogue idea.

 

[Trango Towers]

What Table ??? Ever heard of "status quo ante bellum".

Sorry a man with no toilet cannot be expected to have a table let alone understand what it means to sit at one.

Try to be smart you will get a slap

 

[GURU DUTT]

babur for brahamos, A100 answer to panika, jf 17 block 3 answer to rafale, ly 80 anwer to s400. Ababeel answer to AAD-PAD BMD. and economy of Pakistan is not small either.
and not to forget that rafale and S400 are just on paper until now.
But NASR is an extra ingredient.

speed of babur is less than 16.3 Km per minute and it has to travel at least 500-750 Km before reaching its nearest target giving 15-20 minutes india to destroy it and its your fastes cruise missile

same bhramose taravels 54.7Km per minute but has to travel only 35-185 or at best 285 Km now calculate how much reaction time you have to stop it

as for rest we next door to you kidd and monitoring all your moves 365X24X7 for almost 15 years now with owr multi layered PESA & AESA radar coverage and now we have some dozen spy sats of which 3 are capable of SAR that can see through clouds and day and night so we know what and where you have stock piled all your missiles and nuces and where are all your ammo dumps and strategic air & militarry & command installations what do you think gonna happen to them in first few minutes of the battle

all of them are with our field artilerry and MRBL range we dont even need owr surface to surface missiles for them

as for AAD+BMD-PAD or S400 or other classified systems well go kidd you have no idea they are not MANPADs and yes ever heard of HAROP & HARPY or Popey class smart weapons and drones

 

[scorpionx]

speed of babur is less than 16.3 Km per minute and it has to travel at least 500-750 Km before reaching its nearest target giving 15-20 minutes india to destroy it and its your fastes cruise missile

same bhramose taravels 54.7Km per minute but has to travel only 35-185 or at best 285 Km now calculate how much reaction time you have to stop it

as for rest we next door to you kidd and monitoring all your moves 365X24X7 for almost 15 years now with owr multi layered PESA & AESA radar coverage and now we have some dozen spy sats of which 3 are capable of SAR that can see through clouds and day and night so we know what and where you have stock piled all your missiles and nuces and where are all your ammo dumps and strategic air & militarry & command installations what do you think gonna happen to them in first few minutes of the battle

all of them are with our field artilerry and MRBL range we dont even need owr surface to surface missiles for them

as for AAD+BMD-PAD or S400 or other classified systems well go kidd you have no idea they are not MANPADs and yes ever heard of HAROP & HARPY or Popey class smart weapons and drones

Gurujee, aaj kya jung jeet ke hi saans lenge aap?