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India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

If it's all build in their plant, they will guarantee the quality.

That should be obvious, hardly something worth quoting my post for. :p: We are referring to quality assurance issues with regard to the jets which were supposed to be built in country.
 
There will be no solution to the quality assurance issue. Dassault is simply going to refuse, they will rightly argue that they cannot assure or ensure that all QC/QR will be met through the life of the production line. They would have to literally check the components going on every single jet being built in country to be able to take such a responsibility in good faith, and that is not feasible. Quality assurance does not mean that they pass on the certification process to HAL and then sit back and still assume the ultimate liability.
There was said to be some traction on this with HAL open to the idea of allowing Dassualt to inspect all the work done in India.
 
I don't buy this a major part of the MMRCA was about ToT, industrial benefits and addressing the depleting Sqn strength issue this 60 Rafales through a G-G deal undermines every aspect of this. 126 Rafales simply isn't enough the IAF hinted they would be pursuing the clause for 63 follow on Rafales, they might as well not bother 60 Rafales won't bring enough to India to justify the cost.

I could be wrong but it doesn't make a lot of sense AT ALL.


When has any news on this deal made any sense........
 
Sounds like a replacement for the 60 mirage 2000's that will be retired in 10 years.

For those concerned on the differing platforms and their maintainence, in 10 yrs we will be rid of mig21/25/27/Jag/M2k so a lot of consolidation taking place.

So we will be left with:
Su30,Mig29,Rafael,LCA,FGFA

For a 600 aircraft air force, not too much of an issue.
 
Options are:

More Tejas (inexpensive, unclear if Hal can meet the extra demand)
Go for Typhoon (Typhoon+Rafale+all other Indian aircraft is a logistics problem)
Mig-35 (a lot of commonality with Mig-29)

Order JF-17 (it has DSI) :chilli:

JF 17 is our best option. It is made by the mighty han people so you know quality is good and has DSI!!
 
India don't get TOT but at least it can get their airforce moving. This is a wise move plus you get all gurantee from France since it build in France.
 
Big breakthrough in Rafale deal likely
India is likely to buy about 60 Rafale combat jets from Dassault Aviation instead of 126 aircraft proposed in the original request for proposal (RFP) meant to be procured in under the process that began some eight years ago, highly placed sources told this writer.
The decision to buy nearly three and a half squadrons (between 60-63 aircraft) of Rafale jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) was taken at the highest political level hours before Prime Minister Narendra Modi embarked on his three-nation tour on Thursday, the sources added. Given the huge financial and operational implication, the government thought it prudent to take a strategic decision rather than leave it to a bureaucratic process.

The French are likely to be told of this decision by the Prime Minister himself when he meets President Francois Hollande in Paris on Friday.

Under the new proposal, the entire process for procuring 126 combat jets would be scrapped, sources revealed. A new G-to-G (government-to-government) contract is likely to be negotiated between New Delhi and Paris to buy around 60 Rafale jets in flyaway condition from France.

According to top sources, this approach is being adopted for two primary reasons: one, it is imperative that the IAF gets these jets as soon as possible in view of the fast depleting numbers and two, because the impasse in the price negotiations. The entire procurement procedure for the combat jets has turned into a chaotic process thanks to the indecision on part of the political leadership in the previous regime and some loopholes in the negotiations itself making it impossible for the government to arrive at a satisfactory solution.

India is likely to ask for lowering of the price per aircraft too when the G-to-G negotiations get underway. By ordering 60 aircraft to be manufactured in France itself, the government is also hoping to skirt the tricky issue of guaranteeing quality of work under Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), designated as the Lead Production Agency in India.

The government's drastic decision to scarp the torturous procurement process is aimed at augmenting the IAF's falling numbers as well as save about RS 60,000 crore in precious foreign exchange. The calculation is that the 60-odd aircraft would cost about RS 40-45000 crore to be paid out over next four-five years instead of over Rs one Lakh crore necessary to procure the original number of 126 combat jets.

NewsWarrior: Big breakthrough in Rafale deal likely
Big breakthrough in Rafale deal likely
India is likely to buy about 60 Rafale combat jets from Dassault Aviation instead of 126 aircraft proposed in the original request for proposal (RFP) meant to be procured in under the process that began some eight years ago, highly placed sources told this writer.
The decision to buy nearly three and a half squadrons (between 60-63 aircraft) of Rafale jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) was taken at the highest political level hours before Prime Minister Narendra Modi embarked on his three-nation tour on Thursday, the sources added. Given the huge financial and operational implication, the government thought it prudent to take a strategic decision rather than leave it to a bureaucratic process.

The French are likely to be told of this decision by the Prime Minister himself when he meets President Francois Hollande in Paris on Friday.

Under the new proposal, the entire process for procuring 126 combat jets would be scrapped, sources revealed. A new G-to-G (government-to-government) contract is likely to be negotiated between New Delhi and Paris to buy around 60 Rafale jets in flyaway condition from France.

According to top sources, this approach is being adopted for two primary reasons: one, it is imperative that the IAF gets these jets as soon as possible in view of the fast depleting numbers and two, because the impasse in the price negotiations. The entire procurement procedure for the combat jets has turned into a chaotic process thanks to the indecision on part of the political leadership in the previous regime and some loopholes in the negotiations itself making it impossible for the government to arrive at a satisfactory solution.

India is likely to ask for lowering of the price per aircraft too when the G-to-G negotiations get underway. By ordering 60 aircraft to be manufactured in France itself, the government is also hoping to skirt the tricky issue of guaranteeing quality of work under Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), designated as the Lead Production Agency in India.

The government's drastic decision to scarp the torturous procurement process is aimed at augmenting the IAF's falling numbers as well as save about RS 60,000 crore in precious foreign exchange. The calculation is that the 60-odd aircraft would cost about RS 40-45000 crore to be paid out over next four-five years instead of over Rs one Lakh crore necessary to procure the original number of 126 combat jets.

NewsWarrior: Big breakthrough in Rafale deal likely


As much as I want to believe the news, I dont think source is reliable.
 
Dear GOD...............start of another decade of indian brain farts

no money for 126?
 
As much as I want to believe the news, I dont think source is reliable.


Some reporting from other sources:
With Modi arriving on visit, India, France set to push Rafale deal

With Modi arriving on visit, India, France set to push Rafale deal
21098395-2fd2-44bd-aba8-9b382e373d60wallpaper1.jpg

India's multi-billion-dollar potential combat jet deal with preferred bidder Dassault Aviation is one of the many that India wants to implement. In this file photo, a Dassault Rafale fighter jet takes part in a flying display during the 49th Paris Air Show.

India is considering direct purchase of two squadrons of the French Rafale fighter plane to avoid the mire of price negotiations that the deal for 126 of these aircraft has been stuck in since January 2012.

The Dassault-manufactured Rafale fighter was on January 31, 2012 announced as the preferred bidder in the $13-billion contract for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). India is now seriously considering strategic purchase of up to 40 Rafales for the Indian Air Force (IAF) through the government-to-government (G2G) route on account of operational necessity. The tentative price tag of this deal would be over $4 billion.

New Delhi and Paris remain silent on the new proposal.

But, a senior official involved in the deal says the decision to bypass the 2004 MMRCA tender route - on the basis of which Rafale emerged in the lead - was taken as both Dassault and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) were unable to bridge price differences arising out of original request for proposals (RFP).

"After detailed analysis of the RFP and the laborious process followed by the previous government, it was evident that the entire deal could not be worked out with serious discrepancies in the negotiations that could lead to litigation in future," said a senior official.

The 2012 deal envisages 18 ready-to-fly Rafales supplied to the IAF by this year, and the remaining 108 to be manufactured under licence in India.

With the NDA government not willing to let the IAF fighter squadron strength dip into the critical zone in coming years, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President François Hollande will on Friday discuss ways to clinch the Rafale deal. "If the French company is willing to lower the price per aircraft due to recovery of development costs on missiles, ammunition and sale to other countries, then India could go for outright purchase of the 4.5 generation fighter through the French government route. The deal could be negotiated and signed in 2015 itself but numbers to be purchased depend on offered price. India has purchased the Lockheed Martin C-130 J Super Hercules, Boeing C-17 Globemaster and P-8I Poseidon aircraft from the US on the basis of strategic requirement and operational necessity through the G2G route," a senior official told Hindustan Times.

The IAF's sanctioned strength is 42 squadrons but it is currently operating only 34 with the Russian-origin Sukhoi 30 MKI being the teeth and the Soviet-era MiG-21 forming the long tail. Given the serviceability, repair and upgrade of these fighters and that eight MiG-21 squadrons are to be phased out in the next eight years, the IAF is set to be heavily depleted. It is in this context that the Modi government plans to have two or three Rafale squadrons to spearhead the IAF with the indigenously made Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) replacing the MiG-21 in coming years.

The French government is expected to join the 'Make in India' initiative with an offer of two or three top defence technologies, and New Delhi is not adverse to Dassault floating a joint venture with a private company to build more Rafales in India. Similar offers of building fighters in India will also be made to other MMRCA competitors like the Saab Grippen, Boeing F-18, EADS Eurofighter, Russian MiG-35 and Lockheed Martin F-16 so that the IAF dominates the evolving security scenario in Asia
 
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I guess because Indian AirForce is hell bent on wanting these planes. If it was sole in Indian Government hands, the deal would have been scrapped.


If this news is confirmed, i think it is more of a face saver for everyone involved. A complete cancellation would have been seen as a snub for France, an important partner. This looks like a way to close this chapter(if true)
 
Some reporting from more reliable sources:
With Modi arriving on visit, India, France set to push Rafale deal

With Modi arriving on visit, India, France set to push Rafale deal
21098395-2fd2-44bd-aba8-9b382e373d60wallpaper1.jpg

India's multi-billion-dollar potential combat jet deal with preferred bidder Dassault Aviation is one of the many that India wants to implement. In this file photo, a Dassault Rafale fighter jet takes part in a flying display during the 49th Paris Air Show.

India is considering direct purchase of two squadrons of the French Rafale fighter plane to avoid the mire of price negotiations that the deal for 126 of these aircraft has been stuck in since January 2012.

The Dassault-manufactured Rafale fighter was on January 31, 2012 announced as the preferred bidder in the $13-billion contract for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). India is now seriously considering strategic purchase of up to 40 Rafales for the Indian Air Force (IAF) through the government-to-government (G2G) route on account of operational necessity. The tentative price tag of this deal would be over $4 billion.

New Delhi and Paris remain silent on the new proposal.

But, a senior official involved in the deal says the decision to bypass the 2004 MMRCA tender route - on the basis of which Rafale emerged in the lead - was taken as both Dassault and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) were unable to bridge price differences arising out of original request for proposals (RFP).

"After detailed analysis of the RFP and the laborious process followed by the previous government, it was evident that the entire deal could not be worked out with serious discrepancies in the negotiations that could lead to litigation in future," said a senior official.

The 2012 deal envisages 18 ready-to-fly Rafales supplied to the IAF by this year, and the remaining 108 to be manufactured under licence in India.

With the NDA government not willing to let the IAF fighter squadron strength dip into the critical zone in coming years, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President François Hollande will on Friday discuss ways to clinch the Rafale deal. "If the French company is willing to lower the price per aircraft due to recovery of development costs on missiles, ammunition and sale to other countries, then India could go for outright purchase of the 4.5 generation fighter through the French government route. The deal could be negotiated and signed in 2015 itself but numbers to be purchased depend on offered price. India has purchased the Lockheed Martin C-130 J Super Hercules, Boeing C-17 Globemaster and P-8I Poseidon aircraft from the US on the basis of strategic requirement and operational necessity through the G2G route," a senior official told Hindustan Times.

The IAF's sanctioned strength is 42 squadrons but it is currently operating only 34 with the Russian-origin Sukhoi 30 MKI being the teeth and the Soviet-era MiG-21 forming the long tail. Given the serviceability, repair and upgrade of these fighters and that eight MiG-21 squadrons are to be phased out in the next eight years, the IAF is set to be heavily depleted. It is in this context that the Modi government plans to have two or three Rafale squadrons to spearhead the IAF with the indigenously made Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) replacing the MiG-21 in coming years.

The French government is expected to join the 'Make in India' initiative with an offer of two or three top defence technologies, and New Delhi is not adverse to Dassault floating a joint venture with a private company to build more Rafales in India. Similar offers of building fighters in India will also be made to other MMRCA competitors like the Saab Grippen, Boeing F-18, EADS Eurofighter, Russian MiG-35 and Lockheed Martin F-16 so that the IAF dominates the evolving security scenario in Asia


lets wait & watch then.
 
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