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India’s aircraft carrier ambitions take a dive

1nd1a

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NEW DELHI: Just when the US is seeking to "rebalance'' 60% of its formidable naval fleet towards the Asia-Pacific region, and China steams ahead to commission its first aircraft carrier this year, India's long-standing aim to operate two full-blown carrier battle groups (CBGs) by 2015 has taken a huge hit.

Construction schedule of the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard in defence minister AK Antony's home state, has "slipped another three years'' behind the already-revised timelines.

"The fact is IAC will not be ready anytime before 2017. In a recent high-level meeting, the Cochin Shipyard was sharply pulled up for this huge delay,'' said a defence ministry source.

The barely one-third finished IAC, to be christened INS Vikrant after the country's first carrier decommissioned in 1997, currently stands forlornly next to the bridge connecting Cochin Shipyard to the naval base there.

"IAC, whose keel was laid in February 2009, was to be 'launched' with a weight of around 25,000 tonnes by October 2010. But that is yet to happen. Prematurely floated out of the dry dock last December due to delays in gear boxes and other systems, IAC is just about 14,000 tonnes at present,'' he said.

The first contract for IAC till its "launch'', sanctioned in 2002-2003, was pegged at Rs 3,261 crore. But there has been a huge cost escalation since then, with the second contract from "launch to completion'' yet to be even inked.

This effectively torpedoes Navy's plan to have two potent CBGs by 2015. CBGs or carrier strike groups, capable of travelling 600 nautical miles a day with accompanying destroyers, frigates, submarines, tankers, fighters and other aircraft, project raw offensive power like nothing else around the globe.

As per plans, India's first CBG is to be centered on the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya, or the refitted Admiral Gorshkov, which will be inducted by early-2013 under the revised $2.33 billion deal inked with Russia.

The second CBG was to revolve around the IAC. But Navy will now have to further stretch the operational life of its present solitary carrier, the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, beyond 2014. Already over 50 years old, Viraat is also relatively toothless with just 11 Sea Harrier jump-jets left to operate from its deck. The 45 MiG-29K naval fighters, being procured from Russia for $2 billion, can operate only from Vikramaditya and IAC.

All this when US is going to deploy at least six of its 11 CBGs - each carrier is over 94,000 tonnes and can operate 80-90 fighters -- in the Asia-Pacific region. China, too, is moving fast ahead, holding aircraft carriers are "symbols of a great nation''.

China will take a few years to master CBG operations after it commissions its first carrier, the 67,500-tonne Varyag, undergoing sea trials at present. But it has an ongoing robust programme to build "multiple carriers'' in the decade ahead.

India also has a 65,000-tonne IAC-II on the drawing board but the delay in IAC-I has derailed it. The 260-metre-long IAC-I is supposed to carry 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and 10 anti-submarine and reconnaissance helicopters on its 2.5-acre flight deck and hangars.

With a crew of 160 officers and 1,400 sailors, IAC will have an endurance of around 7,500 nautical miles at 18 knots, powered by four American LM2500 gas turbines. It will be capable of a maximum speed of 28 knots.

India’s aircraft carrier ambitions take a dive - The Times of India

Fire every tom, dick and harry from Cochin Shipyard. Government should learn something from this and give IAC - II to private ship building company. I am sure they will do a better job then these guys.

:sniper:
 
UPA jai Ho... Sonia Gandhi Jai Ho... Ak Antony Jai Ho... Chup Chap Singh jai hoo...

When all 4 of them r present the Only thing that can be expected is Delay But a Guaranteed Cost Escalation ...
 
If I'm not wrong it took 9+ years to build the 28,000 tonne HMS Hermes/INS VIRAAT and the 65,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers laid down in 2008/9 will only be ready in 2018/21 respectively. Of course this is not the same but what I'm trying to say is building and ACC is one of the hardest and most complex projects any navy can undertake and of course the 1st one is always going to be the hardest but the incredible amount of information and knowledge collected by Indian shipyards will not go to waste and will only see Indian warships construction in good steed in the future especially future indigenous ACCs. We can certainly expect IAC-2 and subsequent ACCs to be built faster and be more capable.
 
If I'm not wrong it took 9+ years to build the 28,000 tonne HMS Hermes/INS VIRAAT and the 65,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers laid down in 2008/9 will only be ready in 2018/21 respectively. Of course this is not the same but what I'm trying to say is building and ACC is one of the hardest and most complex projects any navy can undertake and of course the 1st one is always going to be the hardest but the incredible amount of information and knowledge collected by Indian shipyards will not go to waste and will only see Indian warships construction in good steed in the future especially future indigenous ACCs. We can certainly expect IAC-2 and subsequent ACCs to be built faster and be more capable.
When Will Indians go Above the Chalta haii Attitude & Accept there incompetence instead of Justifying it...

Open the eyes... it will not Come before 2020 -2023 i am 100% Guaranteed ... even then people will try to Justify it... So what if it takes 2023...
 
If I'm not wrong it took 9+ years to build the 28,000 tonne HMS Hermes/INS VIRAAT and the 65,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers laid down in 2008/9 will only be ready in 2018/21 respectively. Of course this is not the same but what I'm trying to say is building and ACC is one of the hardest and most complex projects any navy can undertake and of course the 1st one is always going to be the hardest but the incredible amount of information and knowledge collected by Indian shipyards will not go to waste and will only see Indian warships construction in good steed in the future especially future indigenous ACCs. We can certainly expect IAC-2 and subsequent ACCs to be built faster and be more capable.
Exactly....People think India can pull a rabit out of the hat anytime. Its ACC we are talking about. We had difficulty in our Tejas program and here we are talking about 40,000 tonnes of steel beast with the most complex architecture not to forget its our first attempt.

Compare the timeline of our ACC program and complexity with other programs India has undertaken....I seriously think India has taken a step backwards, but one always do that before taking a leap.

When Will Indians go Above the Chalta haii Attitude & Accept there incompetence instead of Justifying it...

Open the eyes... it will not Come before 2020 -2023 i am 100% Guaranteed ... even then people will try to Justify it... So what if it takes 2023...
I disagree...tell me any instance of any country that developed its first ACC in same time frame as India considering the knowledge pool, technological and financial and resources.
 
Exactly....People think India can pull a rabit out of the hat anytime. Its ACC we are talking about. We had difficulty in our Tejas program and here we are talking about 45,000 tonnes of steel beast with the most complex architecture not to forget its our first attempt.

Compare the timeline of our ACC program and complexity with other programs India has undertaken....I seriously think India has taken a step backwards, but one always do that before taking a leap.

I disagree...tell me any instance of any country that developed its first ACC in same time frame as India considering the knowledge pool, technological and financial and resources.

Dude do you think the planners did not envisage all this when they set the target for 2015?
Get rid of this passive attitude.The guys responsible for building the ship are at fault here.Don't make excuses for them.
 
Dude do you think the planners did not envisage all this when they set the target for 2015?
Get rid of this passive attitude.The guys responsible for building the ship are at fault here.Don't make excuses for them.
Prematurely floated out of the dry dock last December due to delays in gear boxes and other systems...Can we get them those systems from other countries considering no country imports that and we have to build it on our own.

Look at our space program and why few projects are delayed, Own cryogenic engine...we already used russians one...do you think, russians gave us the blue print.

I am not saying that no one is at fault, may be it was premature to set this deadline which didn't take into account the possible delays one program can have. India is way to vocal about its project before its done. Lets say we didn't revealed the keel laying of this AC and informed us in 2012 that we are developing our own AC, then wouldn't the time of induction by 2017 have made to cheer out loud.

Have you ever involved or witnessed any major project....such as at governmental level....if you ask who do, they can certainly tell you the challenges Indians face each and everyday.
 
Dude my dad is the GM of the largest Hydroelectric project in India.Google it.So I know it better than most how govt. projects work.Thats why I am saying, there should be accountability in govt. projects.The targets are set up after lot of brain storming.If what you are saying in correct, then the people who planned such a premature deadline should take the rap.Somebody has to take responsibility, right?
 
We have Been making Tejas for God Know 3 decades Still Not available ... forget about generation Fighter we cant even make a Trainer jet for out Pilots ...

Arjun... just 140 in service r u Mad billions Spent on Research But Still Could just use 140... its Success is Exposed

Kaveri engine... Dropped ... worked for Decades ...

Other Countries fail Does it mean we Should fail ... we have the Largest Pool of Scientist & Engineers in the World after China ... So Stop giving that Excuse...

The only Success Seen in Indian indigenous development in Defence is HAL Drv... (apart from Missiles & Radars)


Its Not Because of Scientist But Due to our Political System & Bureaucracy ... We as a Nation Still dont have Target ... we r a Confused Bunch of People who have no other Option So recognize ourself as Indians...

We & Our Leaders r Not Committed in Nation Building ... Do u People Think having a Secular Democracy & Free and Fare election Solve our problems No...

Democracy is Just as a Ideology like Communism ... Unless People of the State & there leaders r not Committed Towards the Country No System can help u develop...

I mean who r We Fooling... Stop Justifying taking Examples of Other Countries & accept ur Defeat then Start working ...
 
Let me give you an example from my real life experience...I was attending an international conference with my professor.

A person who leads the study of "Spread of dengue fever in Delhi" came to him and ask for something...You know what was it.....

God damn 5 to 7 mathematical equations. He had all the data, all the resources but didn't have a mathematical model so he came asked the one who was pioneer in this field. And let me tell you to make a robust and low error mathematical model is not a child's game.

Look at China...they have robst ship building industry, they have developed their own nuclear submarine and tanks for decades, still our arjun beat T-90 in weapon's trial....

Make Army accountable for Arjun MK-I and MK II, for contantly changing requirements, same for IAF in case of Tejas for asking 4.5 generation airplane to build from the scratch without no experience.

Tejas got delayed due to sanctions imposed post 1998.....US forbid Israel to sell us AESA radar.....we were at nascent stage of use of composite material...what would you have an incompetent aircraft in large number or wait of 5 to 10 years to launch a good platform by its own...filling the stop gap with foreign fighters until then.

Kaveri is not a failure. It just doesn't thrust. But look at the bright side, its more than sufficient to power UAVs which is future of Air force. Now we can focus on building multiple squadrons of UCAV since we have the most important part, the engine

We are a developing country, not developed. Its silly of us to not to expect delays and problems. Even russia don't have steam catapult, US is working on EMALS, China's ACC will come out with ours.....

Its the mentality of us Indians to start blaming as soon as something bad occurs.

No one said anything when we had succesful BMD demonstration or successful Moon mission. Ask any scientist and any researcher, they will tell you one thing.....Patience is the key not planning. How can you plan something which you haven't done yet.

We have to try to learn setbacks and take it as a challenge rather than pointing fingers. I was way happy when NAG had problems in extreme hot weathers and Both Army and DRDO instead of blaming, agreed to work together.

Blame game takes you no wheree, either keep wasting time on it or "Do Whats Necessary".

Only one thing Cochin shipyard did wrong was they made promise before taking everything in account. For that you can held them accountable for but not for their incompetence coz incompetence comes when you can't make a simple thing not when you can't make an Entire Aircraft Carrier. (These shipyards gave us or will give destroyers, submarines, frigates, corvettes). Have some faith and don't prosecute them just because we can't boast before posters of other nations and possible mocking by them.
 
Only one thing Cochin shipyard did wrong was they made promise before taking everything in account. For that you can held them accountable for but not for their incompetence coz incompetence comes when you can't make a simple thing not when you can't make an Entire Aircraft Carrier. (These shipyards gave us or will give destroyers, submarines, frigates, corvettes). Have some faith and don't prosecute them just because we can't boast before posters of other nations and possible mocking by them.

Nobody is asking to prosecute them.All I want to see is more professionalism and accountabilty.When you say your going to do a job in a time-frame, do it.Otherwise accept that you made mistakes somewhere along the way and learn from it.
Your attitude is ki bas rafa-dafa karo.It doesn't help anybody.
 
It is the nature of big projects like this to go over budget and be delayed, it is not unique to India. It is true one must not make excuses for it not should one become accustomed to it and not aim for to achieve hight standards but one must understand ground realites and be reasonable. I'm sure the 2015 timeline was given without factoring unforeseen delays that have striken the project like low-quality steel issues and other sourcing issues. The fact is lessons will be learned and follow-on projects will be built on these lessons and will be made quicker and better- same goes for all such projects like Arjun and LCA. Everyone has to start somewhere and a delay of a few years leading to total build time of 8-9 years isn't bad for a project as ambitious as this one/
 
As expected,we are in india where there is no value of time..we have a lot of time to do....Same condition of gorshkov wid this ACC.Now increase the age of vikrant. :lol:

its 3 yrs.. and its massive
 
Nobody is asking to prosecute them.All I want to see is more professionalism and accountabilty.When you say your going to do a job in a time-frame, do it.Otherwise accept that you made mistakes somewhere along the way and learn from it.
Your attitude is ki bas rafa-dafa karo.It doesn't help anybody.
Agreed.....but do it in positive way.....professionalism doesn't come just in a day....for that you have to look at educational, social, political system.....If you want to do it, start everywhere rather than prosecuting one while letting others go untouched. Held MoD and planners responsible too along with Cochin Shipyard.

Ask your father, he will say one thing, that problem is everywhere and at every stage. No matter how much one can give their best, it all can be ruined by one incompetent one. That's where I want to address a bigger point. Remove reservation in IITs IIMs and IIST(if there is), IISC, DRDO and its laboratories and other critical organizations. Only merit based not caste based with scholarship to backward castes....

Start from their, one can change Indian industries in one decade.

But lets stick to topic, we can discuss that in some other thread.
 
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