What's new

India, Russia opt for velvet divorce

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr.Bhadrakumar does not currently hold any official position hence it is even more important to introspect as his advice is not bound by any stress.

The current experts holding the official foreign policy positions would be more worried about their jobs than providing genuine advice after the Ms. Sujatha Singh firing fiasco.

Valid argument. However Bhadrakumar is not the only retired IFS officer who does not hold an official position, plenty who give the completely opposite take to what he has written. Bhadrakumar has strong leftist leanings (his father was a communist MP from Kerala), being anti-Modi is par for the course. You can read his other articles to form your own opinion.
 
India, Russia opt for velvet divorce
The statement by the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov on Wednesday acknowledging that Moscow and Islamabad are engaged in negotiations for the supply of the latest Russian version of Su-35 fighter jet to its “closest partner” Pakistan doesn’t comes as a surprise. This has been the stuff of kite flying by the Russian media in the recent months. Nonetheless, when it is formally acknowledged by a top diplomat, the impact is no less stunning.

First, its military significance. Make no mistake, Su-35S, the latest version, a 4++ generation fighter is a formidable beast with a payload up to 8 tons and a wide array of air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry. It has high maneuverability, advanced avionics and electronic systems, speed of mach 2.25 and a range of 3600 kilometers.

The multi-role Su35 S uses fifth generation technologies and would outclass Rafale that India proposes to buy from France or even America’s F35. Watch its fantastic fight performance, here, at the recent MAKS 2015 Air Show in Russia. Without doubt, if the sale goes through, Su 35 S will be a ‘force multiplier’ for the Pakistan Air Force.

Interestingly, China will be the first country to receive the Su 35 S fighter. Russia first offered to India the option to buy the Su 35 S and when it showed disinterest, turned to the Chinese customer. Russia increasingly looks at arms exports as a source of income in these hard times with low oil prices and the western sanctions affecting the economy, which is in recession.

Having said that, the willingness to sell such a cutting-edge weapon system to Pakistan, India’s archrival, is indeed hugely symbolic in its import for the quality of Russia-Indian relations today. To be sure, if the sale goes through, India-Russia relations can never be the same again. The romance of the Indo-Soviet friendship began dissipating in the early nineties but a special bonding laced with realism promptly replaced it, but now that seems to be inexorably unraveling. The good thing is that the parting of ways may not be in acrimony or with heartache.

Both India and Russia are moving on strategic trajectories that do not happen to be similar. They are far from running into each other – not yet, at least – but would have, simply put, different priorities today. Both are BRICS member countries but doubt arises often what makes India to be one when its foreign policies have drained of any high principles or ideology and are practically motivated by self-interest. Whereas Russian foreign policies are imbued with a long term vision regarding the world order and are focused on the working of an international system based on international law, India has preferred to remain a lotus eater.

For Russia, the tense relationship with the US is increasingly turning into an adversarial mode, while India under the present government, obsessed with the rise of China, is edging closer than ever to the US’ rebalance strategy in Asia. If reports are to be believed, US and India even co-sponsored the project to bring about a regime change in Sri Lanka by ousting President Mahinda Rajapaksa, whom they viewed as ‘pro-China’.

At a time when India cozies up to any country that would have a problem with China, the relationship between Russia and China are at their best ever historically.

At any rate, it was New Delhi that began introducing ‘market forces’ into its arms procurement policies, cherry-picking from Russia only if it suited India’s interests and assiduously searching for alternate sources of supply from abroad. Lately, the United States has also been replacing Russia, inevitably, as India’s preferred source of military hardware. Russia holds no veto power over New Delhi’s decisions to incrementally cut down its share of the Indian market.

The decision to offer Su 35 S to Pakistan underscores that Russia has reconciled with the India’s policies and will now go its own way to secure its self-interests. Clearly, New Delhi also cannot hope to veto the Russia-Pakistan arms dealings. This ought to make the parting of ways cordial.

Secondly, Russia may view China – or Pakistan, Indonesia or Egypt, which have been mentioned as potential customers for the Su 35 fighter – as commercial customers but then, the political considerations underlying weapons sales are always there. What could be the considerations behind a potential Su 35 S deal with Pakistan?

To be sure, the rapidly growing military ties between Moscow and Islamabad testify to the strategic importance that Russia attaches to Pakistan in the geopolitics of the region and Moscow’s overall regional strategies. For one thing, as a key player in the Afghan endgame that impacts on Russia and Central Asia’s vital interests, Pakistan assumes importance in Russia’s security calculus.

More important, perhaps, weaning Pakistan away from the American orbit is a strategic necessity for Russia and the military cooperation creates leverage both to influence Pakistani policies as well as to provide space for Pakistan to maneuver its way out of Uncle Sam’s decades-old embrace. Russia would estimate that given Pakistan’s enviable geographical location, the US’s regional strategies can never be effective without Pakistan playing its traditional cold-war era role as junior partner.

Conceivably, Russian policies toward Pakistan are moving in the direction of its efforts to counter the American intentions to establish military bases in Afghanistan on a long-term basis. (Amongst the regional players, India must be the only country that may welcome a long term American military presence in Afghanistan.)

Equally, it needs to be factored in that Russia and China coordinate their regional policies and the two big powers could be moving in tandem to strengthen Pakistan’s ‘strategic autonomy’ – China with its offer of massive investments within the ambit of the Silk Road projects and Russia stepping in to roll back Pakistan’s dependence on the US for meeting its defence needs. Interestingly, an agreement to lease 2300 acres of land in the vicinity of Gwadar Port in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province to China for a 43-year period was reportedly signed this week. (People’s Daily)

Indeed, Russia and China can do a great deal in tandem to ensure that the US influence over Pakistan gets vastly diminished. Actually, compared to the situation even 5 or 6 ago, Washington would already be sensing the need to negotiate hard with Pakistan rather than simply dictate terms as it used to do. Gone are the days when an incumbent Pakistani prime minister desperately sought a White House invitation to consolidate his political standing in the domestic power structure. The special bonding between the Pentagon and the CIA with their Pakistani counterparts is also becoming a relic of history.

Against this backdrop, Russia sees a ‘level playing field’ becoming available in Islamabad and Rawalpindi in a way that would have been unthinkable during the cold war era.

For sure, Russia’s gravitation toward Pakistan shifts the tectonic plates in regional politics. The arms deals with Pakistan will proclaim to the entire region and internationally that the alignment in the power dynamic is changing.

Whether the realignment in the power dynamic of the region works to India’s advantage or not remains to be seen. The hard reality is that despite all the hype about the US-Indian ‘defining partnership of the 21st century’, India hasn’t gained anything much out of it so far. It is high time ‘Friend Barack’ who is left with only 16 more months in office does something tangible for India and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

The point is, Pakistan will always try to balance its ties with the US with its developing relations with Russia. It is adept at managing the balancing act with great finesse – showing, for example, remarkable dexterity in balancing the ‘all-weather friendship’ with China and its partnership with the US as its key ‘non-NATO ally’ all through the past decade of the Afghan war since 2001.

From the US point of view, too, Pakistan will remain a key regional partner bordering West and Central Asia. Besides, any containment strategy toward China, Russia and Iran can only be pursued if Pakistan is willing to play along or at least maintain a ‘positive neutrality’. Over and above, it is crucial for the US to remain engaged with Pakistan so long as the problem of international terrorism remains a concern for the western world.

Of course, India can never be a substitute for the role that Pakistan is expected to play. Most certainly, in order to neutralize India’s regional profile, Pakistan will continue to strive to maintain a strategic partnership with the US based on shared concerns and common interests (while strengthening its ‘strategic autonomy’).

Suffice it to say, if the Su 35 S ever appears over the Pakistani skies, it will be a stark reminder that the Modi government’s foreign polices have ended in a cul de sac. After all, it is no mean achievement for the Modi government to have chilled the ties with China, ratcheted up tensions with Pakistan to a near-flashpoint and to atrophy India’s time-tested relationship with Russia to this low point — and, all that to have been achieved in a matter of just 15 months in power.


Posted in Military, Politics.

Tagged with BRICS, China's Silk Road strategy, Gwadar, Russia-Pakistan, US bases in Afghanistan.

No comments »

By M K Bhadrakumar – September 11, 2015

Fair analysis. The problem of India begin, when India shift its policy toward west and stop supporting Russia i the time of need and history witness that mother Russia always jumps in to support in the time of need and it hurts the bear most. India was having two nuclear enemy and now due to Indian policy she is creating another one and it is now very dangerous to India b/c India choose partner outside Asia and God knows she will help India or not on the time of need, whereas all three enemy are very near to India and can hurts any time they want and this means India have to fight with all three by her own. Now if we look into what each country offer to each other then it will be like

Russia - Hardware, Technology, Oil and Gas
China - Finance, Technology, Gold
Pakistan - Strategic support, Agriculture, Textile,check on ME oil and gas.

This is my assessment and may be i am wrong
 
Man this was the best post
after failing to prove India is the biggest aid receiver
the economist returned with another table which is a US dollar table with external assistance and that too a RBI chart lol.
Actually you need to know what is an external assistance dude and that too to CENTRAL BANK of a country.
Finance is not your area dude.
Don't humiliate yourself especially indulging in finance and economy issues.

Mr. troll no need to make a JACK A.S.S of yourself .... as advices repeatedly .... DON'T QUOTE ME WITH YOUR IDIOTIC POST ....
 
Last edited:
Era of passivity is over for good or bad, India is going to pursue aggressive and confrontational foreign policy. All those who are not on board have been sidelined.

I completely agree that it is the prerogative of the government to choose who wants to be part of it's team. More so when the government has clear majority but there are better/subtle ways to replace people than the methods adopted by the current leadership. And this is not an isolated incidence and was used incase of DRDO too.
 
I completely agree that it is the prerogative of the government to choose who wants to be part of it's team. More so when the government has clear majority but there are better/subtle ways to replace people than the methods adopted by the current leadership. And this is not an isolated incidence and was used incase of DRDO too.

Don't disagree, though the way a message is delivered is often more important than message itself. Think on that eh?
 
i have a question , Russia offered , dose PAK has $$ to buy it? can PAK have $$ for After sales support escalation?
Yes they have,they have enough money for there defense expenditure. Their numerical superiority on nuclear weapons over India tels everything, a single nuk will cost is higher than a jet fighter.
 
Russian state technology corporation Rostec said that India has expressed interest in carrying out a joint project to extensively modernize its SU-30MKI aircraft in collaboration with Russian companies.


This is the same company which is interested to invest in a $2 billion pipeline between Karachi and Lahore. The relationship between Pakistan and Russia is changing.
 
Fair analysis. The problem of India begin, when India shift its policy toward west and stop supporting Russia i the time of need and history witness that mother Russia always jumps in to support in the time of need and it hurts the bear most. India was having two nuclear enemy and now due to Indian policy she is creating another one and it is now very dangerous to India b/c India choose partner outside Asia and God knows she will help India or not on the time of need, whereas all three enemy are very near to India and can hurts any time they want and this means India have to fight with all three by her own. Now if we look into what each country offer to each other then it will be like

Russia - Hardware, Technology, Oil and Gas
China - Finance, Technology, Gold
Pakistan - Strategic support, Agriculture, Textile,check on ME oil and gas.

This is my assessment and may be i am wrong


Indians are not delusional to believe that US would come to it's rescue. India has learnt the lesson the hard way from 1962 & 1971 war experiences.

There is a reason why US birds were not selected for MMRCA.

Unfortunately, India did not factor in the change in Franco-Russian dynamics and the death of France's independent foreign policy.
 
i have a question , Russia offered , dose PAK has $$ to buy it? can PAK have $$ for After sales support escalation?

We purchased F16 + MLU 36 with amount more then 7.5 Billion back in 2005 and we are in good shape compare o 2005 so we can handle 10 billion easily.

F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter | Page 9
Indians are not delusional to believe that US would come to it's rescue. India has learnt the lesson the hard way from 1962 & 1971 war experiences.

There is a reason why US birds were not selected for MMRCA.

Unfortunately, India did not factor in the change in Franco-Russian dynamics and the death of France's independent foreign policy.

correct and that is also annoyed Russia and it make Russia further close to china and now Pakistan.
 
Don't disagree, though the way a message is delivered is often more important than message itself. Think on that eh?

I have been in Management for 20 years and very well know what & why the government did. But it's a double edge sword. They wanted to send a message to the bureaucrats and scientists to fall in line or else their fate would be no different than Ms. Sujatha Singh and Dr Avinash Chander. They cleverly selected the top most people in the departments to send the stern messages across but my concern is

1) Did they factor in what would be the effect of these on the morale of the staff?
2) How does these decisions impact the openness in communication within the government?

Also, playing devils advocate, why should I consider these decisions as genuine acts and not as sinister plots to destroy these organizations which are critical for the survival of the country?

Finally, 56 inch strategy may not always work. There is concept called "Servant Leadership" for a reason.
 
PAF sources are optimistic about this however there is also a lot of caution. If we will see Su-35S in Green & White roundel or not is something only time will tell. The PAF sources suggest that buying this jet among its obvious advantages would be also used as an 'aggressor' by CCS to workout how to defeat it in an actual engagement using other platforms PAF has. It will solidify PAF's training system as all ifs & buts will be sorted out when we have a much more capable Flanker than IAF currently has. It will have an overall impact on PAF's training doctrines.
 
India, Russia opt for velvet divorce
The statement by the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov on Wednesday acknowledging that Moscow and Islamabad are engaged in negotiations for the supply of the latest Russian version of Su-35 fighter jet to its “closest partner” Pakistan doesn’t comes as a surprise. This has been the stuff of kite flying by the Russian media in the recent months. Nonetheless, when it is formally acknowledged by a top diplomat, the impact is no less stunning.

First, its military significance. Make no mistake, Su-35S, the latest version, a 4++ generation fighter is a formidable beast with a payload up to 8 tons and a wide array of air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry. It has high maneuverability, advanced avionics and electronic systems, speed of mach 2.25 and a range of 3600 kilometers.

The multi-role Su35 S uses fifth generation technologies and would outclass Rafale that India proposes to buy from France or even America’s F35. Watch its fantastic fight performance, here, at the recent MAKS 2015 Air Show in Russia. Without doubt, if the sale goes through, Su 35 S will be a ‘force multiplier’ for the Pakistan Air Force.

Interestingly, China will be the first country to receive the Su 35 S fighter. Russia first offered to India the option to buy the Su 35 S and when it showed disinterest, turned to the Chinese customer. Russia increasingly looks at arms exports as a source of income in these hard times with low oil prices and the western sanctions affecting the economy, which is in recession.

Having said that, the willingness to sell such a cutting-edge weapon system to Pakistan, India’s archrival, is indeed hugely symbolic in its import for the quality of Russia-Indian relations today. To be sure, if the sale goes through, India-Russia relations can never be the same again. The romance of the Indo-Soviet friendship began dissipating in the early nineties but a special bonding laced with realism promptly replaced it, but now that seems to be inexorably unraveling. The good thing is that the parting of ways may not be in acrimony or with heartache.

Both India and Russia are moving on strategic trajectories that do not happen to be similar. They are far from running into each other – not yet, at least – but would have, simply put, different priorities today. Both are BRICS member countries but doubt arises often what makes India to be one when its foreign policies have drained of any high principles or ideology and are practically motivated by self-interest. Whereas Russian foreign policies are imbued with a long term vision regarding the world order and are focused on the working of an international system based on international law, India has preferred to remain a lotus eater.

For Russia, the tense relationship with the US is increasingly turning into an adversarial mode, while India under the present government, obsessed with the rise of China, is edging closer than ever to the US’ rebalance strategy in Asia. If reports are to be believed, US and India even co-sponsored the project to bring about a regime change in Sri Lanka by ousting President Mahinda Rajapaksa, whom they viewed as ‘pro-China’.

At a time when India cozies up to any country that would have a problem with China, the relationship between Russia and China are at their best ever historically.

At any rate, it was New Delhi that began introducing ‘market forces’ into its arms procurement policies, cherry-picking from Russia only if it suited India’s interests and assiduously searching for alternate sources of supply from abroad. Lately, the United States has also been replacing Russia, inevitably, as India’s preferred source of military hardware. Russia holds no veto power over New Delhi’s decisions to incrementally cut down its share of the Indian market.

The decision to offer Su 35 S to Pakistan underscores that Russia has reconciled with the India’s policies and will now go its own way to secure its self-interests. Clearly, New Delhi also cannot hope to veto the Russia-Pakistan arms dealings. This ought to make the parting of ways cordial.

Secondly, Russia may view China – or Pakistan, Indonesia or Egypt, which have been mentioned as potential customers for the Su 35 fighter – as commercial customers but then, the political considerations underlying weapons sales are always there. What could be the considerations behind a potential Su 35 S deal with Pakistan?

To be sure, the rapidly growing military ties between Moscow and Islamabad testify to the strategic importance that Russia attaches to Pakistan in the geopolitics of the region and Moscow’s overall regional strategies. For one thing, as a key player in the Afghan endgame that impacts on Russia and Central Asia’s vital interests, Pakistan assumes importance in Russia’s security calculus.

More important, perhaps, weaning Pakistan away from the American orbit is a strategic necessity for Russia and the military cooperation creates leverage both to influence Pakistani policies as well as to provide space for Pakistan to maneuver its way out of Uncle Sam’s decades-old embrace. Russia would estimate that given Pakistan’s enviable geographical location, the US’s regional strategies can never be effective without Pakistan playing its traditional cold-war era role as junior partner.

Conceivably, Russian policies toward Pakistan are moving in the direction of its efforts to counter the American intentions to establish military bases in Afghanistan on a long-term basis. (Amongst the regional players, India must be the only country that may welcome a long term American military presence in Afghanistan.)

Equally, it needs to be factored in that Russia and China coordinate their regional policies and the two big powers could be moving in tandem to strengthen Pakistan’s ‘strategic autonomy’ – China with its offer of massive investments within the ambit of the Silk Road projects and Russia stepping in to roll back Pakistan’s dependence on the US for meeting its defence needs. Interestingly, an agreement to lease 2300 acres of land in the vicinity of Gwadar Port in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province to China for a 43-year period was reportedly signed this week. (People’s Daily)

Indeed, Russia and China can do a great deal in tandem to ensure that the US influence over Pakistan gets vastly diminished. Actually, compared to the situation even 5 or 6 ago, Washington would already be sensing the need to negotiate hard with Pakistan rather than simply dictate terms as it used to do. Gone are the days when an incumbent Pakistani prime minister desperately sought a White House invitation to consolidate his political standing in the domestic power structure. The special bonding between the Pentagon and the CIA with their Pakistani counterparts is also becoming a relic of history.

Against this backdrop, Russia sees a ‘level playing field’ becoming available in Islamabad and Rawalpindi in a way that would have been unthinkable during the cold war era.

For sure, Russia’s gravitation toward Pakistan shifts the tectonic plates in regional politics. The arms deals with Pakistan will proclaim to the entire region and internationally that the alignment in the power dynamic is changing.

Whether the realignment in the power dynamic of the region works to India’s advantage or not remains to be seen. The hard reality is that despite all the hype about the US-Indian ‘defining partnership of the 21st century’, India hasn’t gained anything much out of it so far. It is high time ‘Friend Barack’ who is left with only 16 more months in office does something tangible for India and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

The point is, Pakistan will always try to balance its ties with the US with its developing relations with Russia. It is adept at managing the balancing act with great finesse – showing, for example, remarkable dexterity in balancing the ‘all-weather friendship’ with China and its partnership with the US as its key ‘non-NATO ally’ all through the past decade of the Afghan war since 2001.

From the US point of view, too, Pakistan will remain a key regional partner bordering West and Central Asia. Besides, any containment strategy toward China, Russia and Iran can only be pursued if Pakistan is willing to play along or at least maintain a ‘positive neutrality’. Over and above, it is crucial for the US to remain engaged with Pakistan so long as the problem of international terrorism remains a concern for the western world.

Of course, India can never be a substitute for the role that Pakistan is expected to play. Most certainly, in order to neutralize India’s regional profile, Pakistan will continue to strive to maintain a strategic partnership with the US based on shared concerns and common interests (while strengthening its ‘strategic autonomy’).

Suffice it to say, if the Su 35 S ever appears over the Pakistani skies, it will be a stark reminder that the Modi government’s foreign polices have ended in a cul de sac. After all, it is no mean achievement for the Modi government to have chilled the ties with China, ratcheted up tensions with Pakistan to a near-flashpoint and to atrophy India’s time-tested relationship with Russia to this low point — and, all that to have been achieved in a matter of just 15 months in power.


Posted in Military, Politics.

Tagged with BRICS, China's Silk Road strategy, Gwadar, Russia-Pakistan, US bases in Afghanistan.

No comments »

By M K Bhadrakumar – September 11, 2015
Pakistan should buy 50 SU-35 dividing them in three squadrons
 
Any of the consequences of speeding up will be matched proportionally in form increased urgency in US - India ties. For now I think all the parties have decided to drag it out for mutual benefit. Ironic eh?

I agree with you about Russia - China - Pakistan axis with China at the lead providing the financing, Russia as maverick and Pakistan as the soldier doing the heavy lifting, even a blind man can see it coming.

Similarly I see a counterweight to it in form of US-Japan-India. Nature abhors imbalance
and India as the soldier doing the heavy lifting, even a blind man can see it coming?:omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
 
A Fiction being discussed to 9 Pages already.
Cheap bandwidth can be a Curse !
 
As Russia announced this news of a possible negotiation, it has announced a joint deal to modernise the Su 30 MKI / SM into Super Sukhoi, essentially SU 35S + aircraft with AESA radar, new engines, etc.

Even Russia is not buying Su 35 and China doesn't need it now that it has J 16. Pakistan can only afford a squadron or two of these jets if Russia doesn't lend it 2 - 5 bn $ of credit. Russia is in need of money so chances that they will lend money to a beggar when they are in need of money themselves is incredulous.

Even if it goes through, 2 squadrons of SU 35 < 272 Super Sukhoi which are closer to FGFA than Su 35.

Russian state technology corporation Rostec said that India has expressed interest in carrying out a joint project to extensively modernize its SU-30MKI aircraft in collaboration with Russian companies.





MOSCOW (Sputnik) – India has expressed interest in carrying out a joint project to extensively modernize its SU-30MKI aircraft in collaboration with Russian companies, the Russian state technology corporation Rostec said in a statement Friday.


"In the long term, as recommended by the Russian Ministry of Defense, we plan a major upgrade of the SU-30SM [model] to increase its combat effectiveness. The Indian government has expressed interest in collaborating to modernize the SU-30MKI, which is an evolution of the SU-30SM," the statement reads.

According to the statement, both aircraft models will be given upgraded avionics and radars, as well as an improved engine. The SU-30SM and the SU-30MKI will also be equipped with additional weapons.

The SU-30 MKI, NATO reporting name Flanker-H, is the Indian Air Force’s elite fighter-bomber. It was developed by Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Corporation and built under license by India's Hindustan Aeronautics.

Russia and India have been close partners in military and technical cooperation for decades. In 2014, the total value of weapons and military hardware delivered by Russia to India reached $4.7 billion, according to Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation estimates.

Timeline is around 2020.

Son, you think so? Fandingo can you do us a favour. Please beg some money for this child below and many more who are being killed by hunger. This is pure cruelty to Indian children. Beg some food for them and feed them hungry children. Only one thing is worse then a beggar. Starving Indian children.


"Gita Devi,” he said between a gulp of tea and a bite of biscuit “died of tuberculosis.”
“These people are poor,” he explained. “They drink. So they have health problems. They get sick. And die.” Case closed.


StarvationIndia_Reuters.jpg


No one starves in India. The poor drink, get sick and die - Firstpost

Starving in India: A Fight for Life in Bihar - India Real Time - WSJ
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom