India-Pakistan: Can We Ever Be Friends?

[untitled]

But you guys can't even sort out your own Muslim Shia-Sunni conflicts and Ahmedis ......

Well converts are more enthusiastic than older followers

You guys can show us the way

So it's not about Kasmir at all! It's a religious thingie, right? In other words, Hindu Vs Muslim, where the twain shall never meet!

Why do Pakistanis claim Kashmir and not Tamil Nadu or Bihar ?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Die Religion , ist das Opium des Volkes
religion is the opium of masses !!

 

[dray]

On a serious note, friendship between two countries is possible only if:

1. Both rest their claim on entire Kashmir and willingly agree to convert LOC as IB.

2. Keep religion as a personal matter of faith and completely remove its influence on everything else including politics, Govt. policies, international politics, education, etc. and learn to respect all religions.

Even after all these it will take 40-50 years to completely normalize everything. Tough task!!

 

[OrionHunter]

Individual frndship .. but as somebody said "Individuals forget.... Nations never"..

OPs post is biased.. nonsense like "encirclement","thousand cuts","insecurity","Zia doctrine","ISI n proxies"..

I wasnt born in 71... but it was a loss i can never forget... same goes for the blood shed of 47... or how can i even forget what india is doing in my country n my home province? or IOK?

Firstly, you can't blame the 1971 disaster on India alone. You asked for it, you got it! Blame the powers that be including your Army stalwarts from Yahya to Niazi for their faulty policies in regard to then East Pakistan.

Secondly, is what I mentioned - 'encirclement', 'bleeding India with a thousand cuts', insecurity etc nonsense? I think not. Do read the geopolitics of the region and Pakistan's strategic imperatives. Bhutto’s promise of a thousand year war and Gen Zia’s strategy to bleed India through a thousand cuts are not mere rhetoric. They are at the core of Pakistani ideology and the raison d’être for its very existence.

Thirdly, what happened in 1947? Is India the only villain? How about the thousands upon thousands of Hindus who were massacred by Muslims during partition?

Fourthly, who invaded Kashmir first with regular troops and laskars, who came up to the outskirts of Srinagar when the Indian Army troops were flown in and pushed your forces back to what is now known as the LoC? It is you guys who invaded and captured parts of Kashmir, not India. So how can you use the word, 'Indian occupation'?

Fifthly, you guys keep crying and hollering from the rooftops about India not complying with the UN Resolutions. But have you even read the resolutions yourselves? Pakistan was to withdraw ALL its forces including those not directly involved in the fighting from areas occupied by Pakistani troops before a so called plebiscite could be held, as per the preamble of the Resolution. But that never happened and never will. So why keep cribbing and blaming India for 'non compliance' when you guys are the culprits for not adhering to the Resolutions yourselves?


.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1. Both rest their claim on entire Kashmir and willingly agree to convert LOC as IB.

That is not in interest of Pakistan and is no solution . Making LoC the International Border , means "Strategic Death" to Pakistan . Only a self-autonomous Kashmir (with some degree of shared control by both PK & IND) is the possible solution .

 

[dray]

That is not in interest of Pakistan and is no solution . Making LoC the International Border , means "Strategic Death" to Pakistan . Only a self-autonomous Kashmir (with some degree of shared control by both PK & IND) is the possible solution .

Maybe, but India won't agree to this because: 1. India's fear would be that self-ruled or autonomous Kashmir will not last long, it will be occupied by Pakistan. 2. No political party in India will risk secession of Kashmir. At most, India can grant some more autonomy to its part of Kashmir, but won't let go the control of it.

In short, friendship looks difficult.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Firstly, you can't blame the 1971 disaster on India alone. You asked for it, you got it! Blame the powers that be including your Army stalwarts from Yahya to Niazi for their faulty policies in regard to then East Pakistan.

Whatever.. it was our internal issues.. u supported,trained,shelters,armed terrorists.. heck u created them.. and ur authors wrote several books on the topic...

Secondly, is what I mentioned - 'encirclement', 'bleeding India with a thousand cuts', insecurity etc nonsense? I think not. Do read the geopolitics of the region and Pakistan's strategic imperatives. Bhutto’s promise of a thousand year war and Gen Zia’s strategy to bleed India through a thousand cuts are not mere rhetoric. They are at the core of Pakistani ideology and the raison d’être for its very existence.

Again nonsense...

Thirdly, what happened in 1947? Is India the only villain? How about the thousands upon thousands of Hindus who were massacred by Muslims during partition?

The first train tht came to Pakistan had only 1 survivor a baby... wrapped around the arms of his dead mother... muslims bore the brunt bcoz they were a majority in several districts etc .. while sikhs n hindus also suffered in what is now Pakistan.. but to a lesser extent because they were very few in number in these areas .. hint : Muslim majority areas went to Pakistan.. redclips biasness.. and nehru+mounbatens wife relationship n his frndship with tht bastard...

Fourthly, who invaded Kashmir first with regular troops and laskars, who came up to the outskirts of Srinagar when the Indian Army troops were flown in and pushed your forces back to what is now known as the LoC? It is you guys who invaded and captured parts of Kashmir, not India. So how can you use the word, 'Indian occupation'?

Haha.. read a book man.. when Partition happened .. Kashmir which was a muslim majority region (and as per redclips formula was to be given to Pakistan)... protests,revolts started... and maharaja used his dogra forces to supress them mercilessly...
In one area his forces massacred over 2.5 lakh people.. the burning villages of kashmir were also seen from the hills stations of Punjab.. the massive influx of kashmiri refugees in the jhelum v
alley are also documented.. later Kashmir world war vets began the resistance... and even asked assistance from the GoP which was facing severe economic crisis not to forget the refugee crisis... and could only send a few condemned crappy obsolete rifles n ammo... and when the news of the Kashmiri massacres reached the heartlands n the frontiers.. people volunteered... even afghans....

Not to forget the Gilgit Baltistan war .. where Muslim soldiers,officers overthrew the brits n the maharajas forces n raised their arms to join the Pakistani State.. here is a monument in Gilgit in memory of the incident:


Gilgit monument:

Fifthly, you guys keep crying and hollering from the rooftops about India not complying with the UN Resolutions. But have you even read the resolutions yourselves? Pakistan was to withdraw ALL its forces including those not directly involved in the fighting from areas occupied by Pakistani troops before a so called plebiscite could be held, as per the preamble of the Resolution. But that never happened and never will. So why keep cribbing and blaming India for 'non compliance' when you guys are the culprits for not adhering to the Resolutions yourselves?

Do you hold any "moral ground" ..? look at the killings,gang rapes - murders,torture,kidnappings,hassasment...mass protests .. and ur militarisations of tht heaven? u have turned it into the most militarised zone in the world.. heck u dnt even allow international media or HR groups ... and wasnt it india tht proposed a refrendum in UN?

Or what about Junagarh,mavadar etc>????

Gilgit uprising monument

 

[airmarshal]

No! We better not.

If India does not change its attitude towards Pakistan, we cant be friends.

This Mumbai drama has opened up the many facts hidden by feel-good attitude towards India. India will not let an opportunity go to harm Pakistan. We all know looking at the fact of this drama, that it was a hoax to drag Pakistan into something more sinister. After running around for 5 years, the propaganda has run its course. But it has given us a great lesson that never trust India at all.

If we dont trust you how can we be friends?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Maybe, but India won't agree to this because: 1. India's fear would be that self-ruled or autonomous Kashmir will not last long, it will be occupied by Pakistan. 2. No political party in India will risk secession of Kashmir. At most, India can grant some more autonomy to its part of Kashmir, but won't let go the control of it.

Well , a shared control can hold back Pakistan (and India too)from committing such acts ... Its all about Water resources , and we have "Indus Basin Treaty" ...all we need is to abide by it ...
Giving Autonomy to Kashmir may be a "risk" for Indian political parties , but not trying to resolve this issue is a much bigger risk (A nuclear war at worst) ...

In short, friendship looks difficult.

For the time being , Yes .. Both the countries are too young to realise that they are not NATURAL ENEMIES

 

[Ayush]

not until we have people like @Armstrong on the other side.
we need more @Marshmallow s.

 

[dray]

Well , a shared control can hold back Pakistan (and India too)from committing such acts ... Its all about Water resources , and we have "Indus Basin Treaty" ...all we need is to abide by it ...
Giving Autonomy to Kashmir may be a "risk" for Indian political parties , but not trying to resolve this issue is a much bigger risk (A nuclear war at worst) ...

First, a shared control means sharing control of Indian part of Kashmir with Pakistan and vice-versa, neither India not Pakistan will be willing to take such a political risk. And even if they do; that "shared control" would become a major issue of further tension, we don't share such relations to "share" control of something, soon we will start fighting over the definition & extent of such sharing!!

Converting LOC to IB that I mentioned earlier is also a difficult move, as this also has huge political risk for both the countries, but if this happens, then further complications will be much less than sharing control of Kashmir. Water issues can be solved through treaties.

For the time being , Yes .. Both the countries are too young to realise that they are not NATURAL ENEMIES

True! It will take 2-3 more generations to reduce the mutual distrust to an acceptable level.

 

[MKI 30]

Do you hold any "moral ground" ..? look at the killings,gang rapes - murders,torture,kidnappings,hassasment...mass protests .. and ur militarisations of tht heaven? u have turned it into the most militarised zone in the world.. heck u dnt even allow international media or HR groups ... and wasnt it india tht proposed a refrendum in UN?

Have we? Who sends terrorists? Who is crossing LC? If India puts in defensive mechanisms you have a problem with that too. So you should be the last one taking a Moral Stand.

Stop supporting terrorism and you would see force numbers being dropped. But then again are you ready to do that? If not stop complaining and set your own house in order.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Have we? Who sends terrorists? Who is crossing LC? If India puts in defensive mechanisms you have a problem with that too. So you should be the last one taking a Moral Stand.

Yes stone pelters are paid by ISI,Kashmiri huriyat is paid by ISI... the mass protests are paid by Pakistan.. wow man..

Stop supporting terrorism and you would see force numbers being dropped. But then again are you ready to do that?

So stop a few "alleged" militants from Pakistan ... which cross the LOC .. and into IOK... U need 7+ lac soldiers n cops? NATO doesnt have tht much troops even in Afghanistan ... an occupied country... wow.. just wow..

If not stop complaining and set your own house in order.

IOK is a part of our house... a portion occupied by our enemy.

 

[Norphisor]

Answer is no. was no and will be no.

 

[MKI 30]

Yes stone pelters are paid by ISI,Kashmiri huriyat is paid by ISI... the mass protests are paid by Pakistan.. wow man..

Apparently, in addition you carry out bomb blasts, attack our military offices and kill our panchayat members. And you say its not backed by anyone? Jeez people can be so selective. Don't let your hate encompass a thing called logic.

So stop a few "alleged" militants from Pakistan ... which cross the LOC .. and into IOK... U need 7+ lac soldiers n cops? NATO doesnt have tht much troops even in Afghanistan ... an occupied country... wow.. just wow..

Again what' your problem with the number of troops. Its our territory we can do whatever we want. I fail to see how is that a problem to you? The comparison you made is irrelevant. Are you that dumb you don't realize the difference in terrain?

Back to the numbers thing : why is it causing you so much trouble? Is it because your plans are failing?

IOK is a part of our house... a portion occupied by our enemy

Go scream at top of your voice. Would it change the reality? You have done everything but still you failed and lost a part of your country. I please request you to carry on and see history repeating itself in form of a new country being formed by the name of Balochistan.