India-Pakistan: Can We Ever Be Friends?

[SrNair]

India is a country beset by virulent hatreds of all types: political, historical, religious and social. These hatreds are so potent that they led to the 21st century’s first genocide. More than 2,000 Indians were butchered and burned across Gujarat, a major trading state in western India near the Pakistani border.

The murder of 2,000 Indians spread over just three days was no small matter, taking place as it did in the 21st century, and not in the 20th or 19th centuries. The fact that almost all those who were killed were Indian Muslims; men, women, elderly and children – eliminated on the streets by mobs representing the majority religious group, meant that this was a ghastly incident of ethnic cleansing and religious extermination.

In less than seventy years, since the creation of India in 1947, New Delhi managed to provoke a war and several border clashes with China, four wars with Pakistan, invade Bangladesh, fight a proxy war in Sri Lanka and indirectly interfere in Nepal.

The Indian military invasion in 1971 of what is now Bangladesh is a good example of how the combustible mix of hate motivated by history and religion poisoned India’s foreign policy.

In 1971, there was no armed freedom movement in Kashmir. There were no pro-Kashmir groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). In that year, Pakistanis were busy in messy and chaotic elections. Less than 40,000 Pakistani soldiers were stationed in East Pakistan, mostly in their barracks and posing no threat to India.

(Ahmed Qureshi)

Actually I dont know who are these pakistanis of to talk rights of Indian Muslims,riots may a problem in diversified country like India .But Pakistan is not the angel of Indian muslims.If Muslims have any problem in India ,they can talk freely in India and get justice ,for that Hindus like us will support them.Can you pakistanis change your 'failed state' .Then talk about India's .problem

 

[Jzaib]

And what you earned? Nothing .....Take a passport of pakistan emblem and go anywhere in the world.Then you know real honour of a pakistani. After all this 66 years existence pakistan gained a label of 'failed state' and epiccentre of terrorism.When a nation like pakistan clashes with a nation like India as you mentioned above,It is like cat challenging a tiger.And one can assume what is the fate of cat like pakistan.Same goes to US-China,US-Iran,India-China etc.
Please man live kashmiris away,If they like you they will support you in 1989 when kashmir insurgency start,But instead they call Indian Army.

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boahhahahha u r calling india a tiger .. tigers dont get on knees and spread their butt cheeks when they are scared .. just see how many times china came on ur territory, stayed their for weeks, humilated to infront of the world... but u didnt even sdre to speak up ..they are even twice ur population ..

one the other hand you are 10 times our size but u cant do shit to us.. we openly supported our kashmiri brother ..we still do it ...

dont distort history .. they are same people who throw stones at ur army every day and saying on their faces ..GO indian dogs GO .. ( their words not mine)

 

[Zarvan]

Here are the reasons why peace can never be achieved until there's a paradigm shift in the psyche of the powers that be. I had posted this in some other thread but it got lost in the labyrinthine maze of traffic on PDF.

The problem lies in the fact that the Zia doctrine is live and kicking in the PA. 'Bleeding India with a thousand cuts' is their signature tune especially after the 1971 war. Retribution for the loss is foremost in the psyche of the PA. They need to hurt India to get even. So any attempt at a detente is going to be a non-starter - unless of course there is a shift in this stereotypical thinking.

The second side of the triangle is the insecurity of the PA. They seem to be paranoid about being enveloped by India in the East, and Afghanistan supported by India in the West and therefore are propping up the Taliban (Haqqani) to take over the helm after American troops withdraw. For this they have been supping with the devil for the past 10 years, playing a game of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. The Americans know this but are caught in a cleft stick as without Pakistan the cost of the WOT in Afghanistan would become prohibitive. If the Pakistan Establishment hadn't helped and supported the Taliban all these years, the game would have been over in Afghanistan long ago.

This has resulted in drone attacks that have killed hundreds of terrorists but resulted in collateral damage too which in turn has given birth to the TTP which has been responsible for the massive casualties of Pakistanis - more than 50,000 soldiers and civilians killed and many more wounded. This has also given birth to a number of militant groups, all jostling for space. The Establishment's support to terrorist groups to fight their wars against India by proxy has started getting out of control with splinter groups charting their own course by getting help of groups inimical to Pakistan's interests. This melds into the third side of the triangle which is:

The need of the PA to keep the Indian 'threat' alive, without which the very raison d'etre of the PA would be at stake. Otherwise they would be sidelined and lose their credibility and importance in Pakistan. So they need an enemy to keep up the charade, which needless to say is India.

At the center of this triangle are the vested interests that need to keep Indo-Pak hostilities going and the pot boiling. An example is the JuD that collects millions of rupees from the sheeple by its anti-India tirades, without which contributions would dry up. They need a reason which is the 'liberation of Kashmir'. A very convenient motive as this could last for decades resulting in a steady flow of funds.

So, the question is: Do vested interest really want to solve the Kashmir dispute? The answer would be, NO!

I would also hasten to add that the Indian media and some politicians need to tone down their rhetoric and stop bashing Pakistan at the drop of a hat. This is vitiating the atmosphere, blowing out the sputtering candle of peace in the wind of hostility by providing a handle to the India-baiters to up the ante.

So, it's not just the conversion of the LoC or other such simplistic proposals that would sort out the Indo-Pak problem as many are led to believe. There are wheels within wheels - almost impossible to extricate from. And therefore, though Aman ki Asha is a noble concept, it will remain a non starter till well into the future.


What do you guys think? Is there hope?

What a crap article Mr this problem didn't started from Zia period Mr the problem started when India illegally captured Kashmir and Jinah had to declare Jihad to liberate Kashmir and with efforts from Pakistan Army we got at least Azad Kashmir and Gilgil and Baltistan and other areas and others have to liberated so you started this from day one Mr and now their is no chances of friendship

 

[Jzaib]

Actually I dont know who are these pakistanis of to talk rights of Indian Muslims,riots may a problem in diversified country like India .But Pakistan is not the angel of Indian muslims.If Muslims have any problem in India ,they can talk freely in India and get justice ,for that Hindus like us will support them.Can you pakistanis change your 'failed state' .Then talk about India's .problem

so u support them .. did u protested on street wheile they were burn in gujrat.. when u distory their worship place, when u are about to elect a most anti muslim leader as your president ..

lolzz grow up kiddo whats wrong in that if you could use kasmiries and sikhs against us why should we refrain to pay you back in the same way by your so called beloved "pashtun & afghan martial races" well bahi "apna usool kehta hai sawaal jis zuban me poocha jai uska jawab bhi ussee zuban me dena chaiye"

how are we using them .???. u invaded their country and they hate you ..that is simple ..


Dutt saab long time ...

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

When India was partitioned in 1947, about 500,000 people died in communal rioting, mainly along the borders with Pakistan. But a year later another massacre occurred in central India, which until now has remained clouded in secrecy.

In September and October 1948, soon after independence from the British Empire, tens of thousands of people were brutally slaughtered in central India.

Some were lined up and shot by Indian Army soldiers. Yet a government-commissioned report into what happened was never published and few in India know about the massacre. Critics have accused successive Indian governments of continuing a cover-up.

The massacres took place a year after the violence of partition in what was then Hyderabad state, in the heart of India.

Reports of looting, mass murder and rape of Muslims in reprisals by Hyderabadi Hindus and Indian Army soldiers following the invasion reached the Nehru government.

A committee led by Pandit Sunderlal investigated the situation and compiled the facts but the findings of the report was not disclosed until 2013 when they were made available at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library in New Delhi.

The Committee concluded that while Muslims villagers were disarmed by the Indian Army, Hindus were often left with their weapons.

In some cases, it said, Indian soldiers themselves took an active hand in the butchery: "At a number of places members of the armed forces brought out Muslim adult males from villages and towns and massacred them in cold blood."

The official "very conservative estimate" was that 27,000 to 40,000 died "during and after the police action"

The Nellie massacre (1983)

The Nellie massacre took place in Assam during a six-hour period in the morning of 18 February 1983 by Lalung tribespeople. The massacre claimed the lives of 2,191 people (unofficial figures run at more than 5,000) from 14 villages—Alisingha, Khulapathar, Basundhari, Bugduba Beel, Bugduba Habi, Borjola, Butuni, Indurmari, Mati Parbat, Muladhari, Mati Parbat no. 8, Silbheta, Borburi and Nellie—of Nagaon district. Most of the victims were Muslims originally from Bangladesh.

Three media personnel Hemendra Narayan of Indian Express, Bedabrata Lahkar of Assam Tribue and Sharma of ABC passing by the region were witness to the massacre.</ref> "25 years on...Nellie still haunts"

 

[hussain0216]

We can never be friends with those pagans

 

[SrNair]

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boahhahahha u r calling india a tiger .. tigers dont get on knees and spread their butt cheeks when they are scared .. just see how many times china came on ur territory, stayed their for weeks, humilated to infront of the world... but u didnt even sdre to speak up ..they are even twice ur population ..

one the other hand you are 10 times our size but u cant do shit to us.. we openly supported our kashmiri brother ..we still do it ...

dont distort history .. they are same people who throw stones at ur army every day and saying on their faces ..GO indian dogs GO .. ( their words not mine)

You guys think you are some outsiders?
then just watch this.

Tiger have power ,but that doesnot mean they cant use their brain.We use our brain.China made a childish act and we act like a mature country.So now they returned from DOB.

Who the f** care about pakistanis.We dont want to fight with a failed state.Your spines will bent like a rope when your leaders see money.Go and beg to America or China for money ,then bought some weapons and then go PDF and talk we have these and that pathetic

About kashmir ,kashmir Pandits still not get their justice and land from pakistan occupied kashmir.
And they want to remain with Indian side.Now go and cry

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

You guys think you are some outsiders?
then just watch this.

Tiger have power ,but that doesnot mean they cant use their brain.

indian tiger

 

[GURU DUTT]

so u support them .. did u protested on street wheile they were burn in gujrat.. when u distory their worship place, when u are about to elect a most anti muslim leader as your president ..

your a old member and quite intellegnt i say but tell me what will muslims do to christians or hindus who even throw stones at a bus filled with Hajees returning after there Hajj....well ram mandir(birth place of Bhagwan Ram) of ayodhya holds the same respect and importance to hindus as kabba/ mecca or jeruslam holds to muslims

now the thing is a mob led by some crazy mullahs who were paid by congresiies to creat trouble burnt alive 54 hindu pilgrims returning from ayodhya and the riots were ignited but the thing is Modi govt went into full gear and even army was owt in streets to control the riots and within record 22 hours they were controlled while we all know whats the track record of all other previous or after gujrat riots that took place in states ruled by so called "secular parties" google it and you will be amazed

i know pakistanies love to hate hindus and india and in perticullar gujrat and Namo cause they have performed good way beyond they ever thought ever seen a riot in gujrat or any BJP/NDA ruled states after 2002 ever wondered why ...well thats called efficient and ruthless administration whos sole moto is "justice to all & appeasement to none" can pakistanies or any muslim from any muslim nation say the same about the condition and treat ment of minorities in there respective states , countries

well the thread is about india pakistan friendship and the hard fact is pakistanies are way too baised and see everything thru a prism of relegeon and skin colour than merit or justice point of view and thats the main reson they will never be able to talk with a mature and responsible manner to anyone let alone India

so the thing is we indians are now warry way too much of such games and in time have learned quite a few things aboutpakistani behaviour and practices aginst us and sorry to say pakistan onli has "neusence value" deu to its over zelous ambition to bleed india dry thru a 1000 cuts and that hate is the main reson we could never be good friends but we can live like normal naighbours if pakistan behaves and stops sponsoring terror as a main tool of its foriegn policy and instead of conquering india and making afghanistan its "strategig depth" focosses its efforts more in educating its masses and feeding its poor and pulling its 80% population owt of clutches of cruel and parasatick natured feudals south asia can become a economick power house but if it keeps on going on the same path we indians will keep the status qoe and in time will ake sure pakistan is not in a position to challenge us in any way ...hope this clears a few doughts to those who drweam of a so caleed "friendship between India & Pakistan"

and as for indians going all owt to make NaMo as its "prime minister" not "president" as india is not USA hope pakistani "friends like you" are more logical

now as for using balochies and afghans against pakistan like you did with kasmiries and sikhs well sikhs in indian punjab has dennounced that long time ago and kashmiries are now coming to terms with reality and thats why they specially muslims are supporting NaMo much to the discomfort of pakistanies , NC & INC and many so called "secular parties" baki lets see whats in store in next years genral elctions its still too earli to pridict thanks

 

[SrNair]

so u support them .. did u protested on street wheile they were burn in gujrat.. when u distory their worship place, when u are about to elect a most anti muslim leader as your president ..



how are we using them .???. u invaded their country and they hate you ..that is simple ..


Dutt saab long time ...

Let me clear .In India there is no Hindus or Muslims,only Indians.Some illiterate people make some problems with each other and some politicians take advantage from them.But Indians are changing man really changing .Muslims all over India not gujarat.Muslims from some remote dont care about gujarat riots.Man you know very well about our medias ,they want sensational news.So they use 2002
riots for that purpose,at that time India electronic media is advancing.But this coverage dont get when
congress devils kill our sikh brothers,because Indian media in 1984 is DD and it is controlled by congress government.
About Modi,even our muslim friends want him as a PM.You know why, they can see the prosperity
difference of Gujaratis between 2000 and 2013.If modi made any problem as a PM.we Indians how to handle it.So can you take care of your minorites like Ahmedis.If you can then talk to about secularism

indian tiger

Actually this is photo resembles 90000 pakistan POW in 1971.

Ask any one of them ,they will told you who is tiger and who is cat

 

[Jzaib]

your a old member and quite intellegnt i say but tell me what will muslims do to christians or hindus who even throw stones at a bus filled with Hajees returning after there Hajj....well ram mandir(birth place of Bhagwan Ram) of ayodhya holds the same respect and importance to hindus as kabba/ mecca or jeruslam holds to muslims

now the thing is a mob led by some crazy mullahs who were paid by congresiies to creat trouble burnt alive 54 hindu pilgrims returning from ayodhya and the riots were ignited but the thing is Modi govt went into full gear and even army was owt in streets to control the riots and within record 22 hours they were controlled while we all know whats the track record of all other previous or after gujrat riots that took place in states ruled by so called "secular parties" google it and you will be amazed

i know pakistanies love to hate hindus and india and in perticullar gujrat and Namo cause they have performed good way beyond they ever thought ever seen a riot in gujrat or any BJP/NDA ruled states after 2002 ever wondered why ...well thats called efficient and ruthless administration whos sole moto is "justice to all & appeasement to none" can pakistanies or any muslim from any muslim nation say the same about the condition and treat ment of minorities in there respective states , countries

well the thread is about india pakistan friendship and the hard fact is pakistanies are way too baised and see everything thru a prism of relegeon and skin colour than merit or justice point of view and thats the main reson they will never be able to talk with a mature and responsible manner to anyone let alone India

so the thing is we indians are now warry way too much of such games and in time have learned quite a few things aboutpakistani behaviour and practices aginst us and sorry to say pakistan onli has "neusence value" deu to its over zelous ambition to bleed india dry thru a 1000 cuts and that hate is the main reson we could never be good friends but we can live like normal naighbours if pakistan behaves and stops sponsoring terror as a main tool of its foriegn policy and instead of conquering india and making afghanistan its "strategig depth" focosses its efforts more in educating its masses and feeding its poor and pulling its 80% population owt of clutches of cruel and parasatick natured feudals south asia can become a economick power house but if it keeps on going on the same path we indians will keep the status qoe and in time will ake sure pakistan is not in a position to challenge us in any way ...hope this clears a few doughts to those who drweam of a so caleed "friendship between India & Pakistan"

and as for indians going all owt to make NaMo as its "prime minister" not "president" as india is not USA hope pakistani "friends like you" are more logical

now as for using balochies and afghans against pakistan like you did with kasmiries and sikhs well sikhs in indian punjab has dennounced that long time ago and kashmiries are now coming to terms with reality and thats why they specially muslims are supporting NaMo much to the discomfort of pakistanies , NC & INC and many so called "secular parties" baki lets see whats in store in next years genral elctions its still too earli to pridict thanks

butt saab aj tu bara time laya ha tusi .. na salam na dua bus lari shoro .. typical hindu banya ... im leaving home so ill reply in detail.

but for the bold part in ur post .. kashmiris see the indian invasion as hindu invasion on their land as hindu invasion .. hindus occupied their territory, capture all the natural resource, killed hundered thousands of them .. and u want them to be mature ( in an ideal world that should happen) but not in the real world .. mostly the most anti indian parties like huriyat have said time and again that they pilgrims are welcome and should be taken good care off ... the stone pelting is mostly on crpf and indian army ..not on pilgrims ...

let me present a senario, if lets say china caputure india, and chinese tourist come to visit TAJ mehal and indians dnt welcome them and may be pelt stone at them .. then chiene start labling them as terrorist and protesting why are they hostile to innocent tourist ..

u occupied their land ..killed them and u expect them to send roses.

Pakistan dont hate india or hindus at all ..but Pakistan through his history is a very religious country .. we support arabs in arab isreal war, we supported Bosians, we helped afghans defeat russians, u know our stance on kashmir.. Pakistan only hate indians or hindus becoz they have occupied kashmir against the will of the people and killed million ..

btw yaar tu mujhay maat samjhay .. i know ur point of u and agree to many points ... yahan tu bus apnay bhiyion ko support karnay ata hun .. u know i love india ... agar kashmir wala masla na hota tu im in all in for friendship.

 

[GURU DUTT]

butt saab aj tu bara time laya ha tusi .. na salam na dua bus lari shoro .. typical hindu banya ... im leaving home so ill reply in detail.

but for the bold part in ur post .. kashmiris see the indian invasion as hindu invasion on their land as hindu invasion .. hindus occupied their territory, capture all the natural resource, killed hundered thousands of them .. and u want them to be mature ( in an ideal world that should happen) but not in the real world .. mostly the most anti indian parties like huriyat have said time and again that they pilgrims are welcome and should be taken good care off ... the stone pelting is mostly on crpf and indian army ..not on pilgrims ...

let me present a senario, if lets say china caputure india, and chinese tourist come to visit TAJ mehal and indians dnt welcome them and may be pelt stone at them .. then chiene start labling them as terrorist and protesting why are they hostile to innocent tourist ..

u occupied their land ..killed them and u expect them to send roses

btw yaar tu mujhay maat samjhay .. i know ur point of u and agree to many points ... yahan tu bus apnay bhiyion ko support karnay ata hun .. u know i love india ... agar kashmir wala masla na hota tu im in all in for friendship.

salamm bhai jaan ghustakhi ke liye maufi ka talab gaar hoon

any way kasmir was part of ancient hindu culture and always a so called "hindu land" now the thing your talkin about is a falacy that was propogated first by british as the wanted bases to control USSR and China and kashmir provided them just that so they enticed "anty maharaj campeign" way back in late 1930s when it became clear thet now british will have to leave india and later pakistani elite as they wanted to control "juglar viens" and kashmiri muslims were made fools just like all those who created myhem in 1947 for so called "muslim nation" its another thing we can see today who was right and who was wrong judging by the "blunders, plunders & surrendres" your so called feudal/militarry ashrafia made

now the fact is India controls kashmir and hindus are conected to thet land as there are many pilgrimage centers there and we will never part with it no matter what is the cost

now china ...well where did china come in here "or is it since you cant do anything on your own you want china to fight indians for you " lolzzz well my friend keep dreaming but dont forget "ddothe jahaj ko koi nahi bachata" well if they wanted or had guts they could have captured all north india in 1962 or even later when india was weakest now its owt of question for themas they very well know

1.that they cannot cross mighty himlayas

2. there air force can never achieve a clear air superiorty over northen india let alone whole of india

3. indian strategick forces are way beyond pakistans estimates but china has a quite a bit of knowledge about it + its own back yard will be run over by japenese , koreans and vietnamease and they all will be supported by USA if ever china tries to invade us

4. as for missiles and neuklear wepons yes china has an edge but off late india with israeli , US , russian and french covert & active help is being able to fill the woid in a considrable manner

and thats why china is keepin its forces in chekc other wise they would have run over us at least a decade back so chines occupieng india and these tourist visiting TAJ well i guess you must be someking some real good stuff

 

[OrionHunter]

India is a country beset by virulent hatreds of all types: political, historical, religious and social. More than 2,000 Indians were butchered and burned across Gujarat.

The murder of 2,000 Indians spread over just three days was no small matter, The fact that almost all those who were killed were Indian Muslims; men, women, elderly and children – eliminated on the streets by mobs representing the majority religious group, meant that this was a ghastly incident of ethnic cleansing and religious extermination.

Stop being self righteous and spinning yarns. Do you even know how many Hindus and Sikhs have been butchered in Pakistan and thousands forced to convert to Islam? How many temples have been destroyed there? How many thousands have fled Pakistan and migrated to India because of atrocities committed on them?

Put your house in order first before pointing fingers at others.

 

[KRAIT]

First India will be focused on solving its own problems, boosts its economy and international status. We can bypass Pakistan and ignore it for sometime. At least for 2 decades. Then we can think of talking to Pakistan.

 

[OrionHunter]

What a crap article Mr this problem didn't started from Zia period Mr the problem started when India illegally captured Kashmir and Jinah had to declare Jihad to liberate Kashmir and with efforts from Pakistan Army we got at least Azad Kashmir and Gilgil and Baltistan and other areas and others have to liberated so you started this from day one Mr and now their is no chances of friendship

Have you read real History or just the crap spewed out by your propaganda machinery? Obviously its the latter as you seem completely unaware of the realities.

Advice: Get hold of History books written by independent sources and chuck the ones that have been written by clowns in Pakistan which include the Mullahs and the falsifiers of History. If you think I'm talking out of my hat, then check this out....

Your own media and experts have admitted that History taught in Pakistani schools are all lies, lies, and nothing but lies!!


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