India Orchestrating Fascism in Bangladesh – Spotlight on Shahbagh Square

[Zabaniyah]

I have just one question is Loki, zabanya same?
zabanya had different view to jamat?

The same.

I'm not a supporter of Jamaat, nor a fan of it. My post was simply an inquiry. That is all.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Hammer-fist and indians derailed the thread.

We are orchestrating fascism. Thats on topic. I'm even wearing my saffron underwear.

 

[Hammer-fist]

I do not want to read pro-India views from Bangladeshis. Just a mix of different views - a sign of a rational thinking nation is relief enough.

I must say I've felt that relief lately as people are actually posting more than just the same rawami, malaun, munafiq crap.

I'm just a common man and can not claim to know world conspiracies and intrigues like some jamatis do and even write books about, but I'm a supporter of co-existence and cooperation in the REAL issue of bringing our people out of poverty.

Even if Indian influence/destabilization of Bangladesh was half as bad as the Jamatis here claim it is (which it isn't), then people will get bored reading the same garbage again and again, and again ad nauseum.

"RAWAMI", "Malaun", "dalal" etc.

Name calling is easy.

But give us some practical solutions.

Idune's solution is simple, vote BNP, the party which he carries out party political propaganda for on this forum.

OK, so will the BNP coming in to power solve all of Bangladesh's problems?

Bangladesh has something like 40-45% illiteracy (unless I'm wrong), is that the work of RAW?

What have Bangladeshi politicians done about perhaps 60 million people (more than the population of Italy or Spain) being illiterate?

Is this the work of "evil Hindus" in a 90% Muslim country?

As I said Jamatis have no practical solutions or concern for the problems facing our country - as evidenced by their recent complete lack of starting any threads related to normal Bangladeshi affairs but sole obsession with the war crimes trial - and frankly they are boring.

"RAW", "Awami", "dalal", "malaun" etc over and over again.

I can write about many of the problems of Bangladesh not caused by "evil Hindu" India but a result of Bangladeshis own inability to combat these problems.

Are they going to blame eve-teasing on RAW?

Are they going to blame the mistreatment of Bangladeshi workers in the middle east on RAW?

Has RAW and India stopped Bangladesh from increasing its economic growth by 1% every decade since independence and having manufacturing self-sufficiency in electronics such as TVs, DVD players, refriegrators, motorbikes, mobile phones and production of ships?

Of course not.

Jamatis are boring, repetitive, irrational, aggressive and not interested in the real life issues the common man in Bangladesh faces, but just blame "RAW, AWAMI, INDIA, RAW, AWAMI, INDIA" bla, bla, bla......

Hammer-fist and indians derailed the thread.

Translation: "I started this India-bashing thread to make Bangladeshis and others hate India.

Now that Bangladeshis have seen through this very transparent attempt to rouse hatred against India I am going to cry.

However when I derail all other threads e.g. about Bangladesh and oil companies or Bangladesh and South America by bringing "Awami" and "India" in to it, that's perfectly fine."

 

[kalu_miah]

Kalu_Miah is a bit of a strange guy.

He is not a religious fundamentalist or wannabe-Pakistani like some of the other Jamatis here, but in some ways quite secular and liberal and with no particular like/dislike for Pakistan.

So the question is how did he become not a Jamati but a supporter of the Jamatis here?

Afaik he was an advocate of a SAARC confederacy and what some Bangladeshis even argued was de facto Bangladeshi absorption in to a greater India (which Kalu_Miah did not seem to strongly deny). Then from what he says is he spent time in the notorious Bharat_Rakshak which has the Indian Hindu equivalents of characters like Idune, Al-Zakir and M_Saint.

He says he spent a year there and from that online message board has discovered that 1 billion Indian Hindus hate Muslim Bangladesh.

I never knew Bharat_Rakshak had so much weight!

India is a land of 1 billion people, how can the views of 1 billion people be represented by an online message board?

Bharat_Rakshak has a few anonymous trolls who behind the privacy of their laptops can afford to say whatever they want with no repercussions, thus with impunity. In the real world any Indian politician would have some key differences between himself and a Bharat_Rakshak troll.

1. Politician's name is known - Troll's name and face are unknown.

2. Politician's actions can have negative consequences on him e.g. internally and externally. Internally criticism and loss of votes, externally anger from foreign states/powers e.g. Bangladesh.

Troll can type whatever he wants on a forum and no one will know his name, face and what he says has no bearing in the real world and impacts no one. So if a Bharat_Rakshak troll called for the nuking of Bangladesh and then went home to eat a samosa it would make no difference.

So anyway Kalu_Miah apparently on "discovering" the true nature of 1 billion Indians from some online discussion forum has now decided India is the biggest enemy of Islam and Muslims on earth (you can search for some of his quotes where he says India - yes India and not Israel, the US - is the biggest enemy of Muslims in the world) and Bangladeshis must hate India.

Kalu_Miah has also spoken about dismembering India by arming separatists.

This is standard forum-talk on such websites, but for a man who wants to seriously influence the politics of Bangladesh and wants to create a "Bangladesh 2050" site that would become some sort of NGO-cum mass internet pressure group, it is very irresponsible and no respectable person in Bangladesh would want to be associated with such sort of rhetoric or such sort of person.

Just as the trolls of Bharat_Rakshak do not represent the reality of India, nor do the Jamatis of PDF represent the reality of Bangladesh.

Still talking about me, as if he understood me. At least he understood that I am not Jamati, I should congratulate him for that. Bharat_Rakshak may not reflect the total reality, but no one can deny that BJP came to power once and Modi may come to power in the near future.

Like Han Nationalism for China, Hindutva Nationalism is a defining factor for India and it has only just begun. While this Hindutva is on a rising trajectory, it is naive to think that by becoming Indian controlled vassal state (read friendly), Bangladesh will have a secure future. No one achieves anything by being friendly and servile.

By its very design the Radcliffe borders have created a very tenuous existence for this nation state from Partition in 1947. Unless a balance is reached in some way with strong alliances with other nation states, Bangladesh as a nation state will always have difficult existence, because of its geopolitical situation. It is a Muslim majority nation, far away from any other Muslim nation. It is surrounded on 3 sides by Hindu majority India, controlling upstream water source for 54 rivers. Bangladesh is no military match for India now and may never become one, unless we go for asymmetric new-cooler MAD option sometime in the future. So the situation is fundamentally off balance. And balance of power theory of International Relations would give some idea why we are threatened and why we need alliance with others to offset this imbalance:

Balance of power (international relations) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the core of the balance of power theory is the idea that national security is enhanced when military capabilities are distributed so that no one state is strong enough to dominate all others.[1] If one state gains inordinate power, the theory predicts that it will take advantage of its strength and attack weaker neighbors thereby providing an incentive for those threatened to unite in a defensive coalition. Some realists maintain that this would be more stable as aggression would appear unattractive and would be averted if there was equilibrium of power between the rival coalitions.[1]

When confronted by a significant external threat, states may balance or bandwagon. Balancing is defined as allying with others against the prevailing threat, whereas bandwagoning refers to alignment with the source of danger.[2] States may also employ other alliance tactics, such as buck-passing and chain-ganging. There is a longstanding debate among realists with regard to how the polarity of a system impacts on which tactic states use, however, it is generally agreed that balancing is more efficient in bipolar systems as each great power has no choice but to directly confront the other.[3] Along with inter-Realist debates about the prevalence of balancing in alliance patterns, other schools of International Relations, such as constructivists, are also critical of the balance of power theory, disputing core realist assumptions regarding the international system and the behavior of states.[4]

When we are confronted with a problem, we do not throw up our hands and say I give up, instead we look for solutions to our problems.

India has interfered and continues to interfere in our land mass since 1960's. As long as India does that, which is natural for India to do, it is natural for us to make noise about it. There is no escaping it, till we bring a balance somehow and eliminate Indian interference. It is as simple as that.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Like Han Nationalism for China, Hindutva Nationalism is a defining factor for India and it has only just begun. While this Hindutva is on a rising trajectory, it is naive to think that by becoming Indian controlled vassal state (read friendly), Bangladesh will have a secure future. No one achieves anything by being friendly and servile.

1. Since you are constantly revising, updating and re-revising your political ideas what is your stance now on claiming that India/Hindutva is the greatest enemy of Muslims on earth? Do you deny you said this and if not have you changed your mind on this.

2. The BJP came to power...and?

The BJP espouses anti-Muslim, Hindu nationalist rhetoric but upon gaining its goal of ruling New Delhi dispenses with much of that rhetoric and has even been criticized for appeasing.

The BJP also has Muslim members believe it or not, which is testament to the fact that it has weaknesses. It has to be pragmatic and try and appease, woo some of the Muslim community.

Also India is a federal state where the centre does not have complete power e.g. Mamata Banerjee blocking New Delhis' propopsed Testa deal with Bangladesh.

Please start living in the real world. Your telephone conversations with the likes of Al-Zakir and M_Saint seem to be rubbing off badly.

3.. In addition to hating India, you also seem to have a problem with the Han Chinese (you are married to someone from South Korea, a country which has issues with China). China is a friend of Bangladesh and we value and deeply appreciate our friendship with this fellow Asian country.

If you want us to hate India, do you want us to hate the "Han Chinese" too?

Hatred for both of Asia's two biggest giants at the same time?

 

[kalu_miah]

1. Since you are constantly revising, updating and re-revising your political ideas what is your stance now on claiming that India/Hindutva is the greatest enemy of Muslims on earth? Do you deny you said this and if not have you changed your mind on this.

2. In addition to hating India, you also seem to have a problem with the Han Chinese (you are married to someone from South Korea, a country which has issues with China). China is a friend of Bangladesh and we value and deeply appreciate our friendship with this fellow Asian country.

You see, you seem to excel as a propagandist and I like to fashion myself as a theorist, although you like to call me a clown as well, without understanding what I am talking about.

So by definition we cannot have a conversation, because there is no mutual comprehension. You collect materials for propaganda and run with it for what its worth, without understanding the big picture.

Yes, I believe the West do not have a problem with mainstream Islam and Muslims, they have a problem with extremists as they blame the West for their problems and attack the West physically. But Hindutva nationalists consider Islam and Muslims anywhere in the world as a threat to their existence, so they are a threat for Muslims. It is just that Muslims throughout the world are not very aware about this threat, yet. Just in this site Muslims of many countries are finding out first hand the pathological hatred many Indian Hindu's have for Islam and Muslims. Many can vouch for their Islamophobia first-hand.

Han Chinese nationalism and bullying is also in plain sight for many people to see. The fact that we are geopolitical ally of China, does not change this fact.

And I have no hatred for anyone, please give your propaganda a rest for a change.

 

[KRAIT]

@kalu_miah India has more Muslims than BD. Indian Muslims are world known in various fields. In this country of ours where 81% are Hindus, Muslims have major position in Govt., Politics and in Society.

How come Muslims grew in large number if Hindutva is against Muslims. Your definition of Hindutva is wrong. You misinterpreted it.

Tell me how many Muslims have Hindus killed in India recently ? Look at US, Iran-Iraq war, Pakistan etc.

Because of your hatred against Hindus and few fanatical Hindus, there is still some trust deficit as they causes trouble and disturb religious harmony.

In Gujrat, under Modi's leadership of BJP, BJP gave ticket to 24 Muslims in local elections and all won.

Indian Muslims are suffering due to what their other Muslim brothers did in the world in name of Islam.

So Indian Muslims have biggest threat from their own Muslim brothers.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah India has more Muslims than BD. Indian Muslims are world known in various fields. In this country of ours where 81% are Hindus, Muslims have major position in Govt., Politics and in Society.

How come Muslims grew in large number if Hindutva is against Muslims. Your definition of Hindutva is wrong. You misinterpreted it.

Tell me how many Muslims have Hindus killed in India recently ? Look at US, Iran-Iraq war, Pakistan etc.

Because of your hatred against Hindus and few fanatical Hindus, there is still some trust deficit as they causes trouble and disturb religious harmony.

In Gujrat, under Modi's leadership of BJP, BJP gave ticket to 24 Muslims in local elections and all won.

Indian Muslims are suffering due to what their other Muslim brothers did in the world in name of Islam.

So Indian Muslims have biggest threat from their own Muslim brothers.

Yes, I know that is your own propaganda line. Actually your own Muslims face less of a threat, because they are citizens of your state and they have votes. It is the ones that are outside and immediate neighborhood, that face the much bigger threat from your Hindutva infested state machinery, state terrorism Israel style.

And again, please stop your and your poodle's propaganda that I hate Hindu's. I do not hate anyone, for the nth time. But I will state the nature of things as I see it, and some may not like what I say.

 

[idune]

@kalu_miah India has more Muslims than BD. Indian Muslims are world known in various fields. In this country of ours where 81% are Hindus, Muslims have major position in Govt., Politics and in Society.

How come Muslims grew in large number if Hindutva is against Muslims. Your definition of Hindutva is wrong. You misinterpreted it.

Tell me how many Muslims have Hindus killed in India recently ? Look at US, Iran-Iraq war, Pakistan etc.

Because of your hatred against Hindus and few fanatical Hindus, there is still some trust deficit as they causes trouble and disturb religious harmony.

In Gujrat, under Modi's leadership of BJP, BJP gave ticket to 24 Muslims in local elections and all won.

Indian Muslims are suffering due to what their other Muslim brothers did in the world in name of Islam.

So Indian Muslims have biggest threat from their own Muslim brothers.

Please stop your lie right there and stop derailing the thread. Read following, correct the situation before making false claims. This thread is about how india orchestrating fascism in Bangladesh not Muslims in india.

Indian Army's Muslim headcount: It is 3%
An Indian Muslim's Blog: News, Views & Urdu Poetry Website: Indian Army's Muslim headcount: It is 3% or just 29,000 Muslims but a glorious tradition of service and sacrifice

Indian Muslims falling behind in Literacy and Education
Indian Muslims falling behind in Literacy and Education - YouTube

Identity-based discrimination challenges Indian Muslims, notes Stanford seminar
Identity-based discrimination challenges Indian Muslims, notes Stanford seminar | India America Today

 

[Hammer-fist]

You see, you seem to excel as a propagandist and I like to fashion myself as a theorist, although you like to call me a clown as well, without understanding what I am talking about.

So by definition we cannot have a conversation, because there is no mutual comprehension. You collect materials for propaganda and run with it for what its worth, without understanding the big picture.

Yes, I believe the West do not have a problem with mainstream Islam and Muslims, they have a problem with extremists as they blame the West for their problems and attack the West physically. But Hindutva nationalists consider Islam and Muslims anywhere in the world as a threat to their existence, so they are a threat for Muslims. It is just that Muslims throughout the world are not very aware about this threat, yet. Just in this site Muslims of many countries are finding out first hand the pathological hatred many Indian Hindu's have for Islam and Muslims. Many can vouch for their Islamophobia first-hand.

Han Chinese nationalism and bullying is also in plain sight for many people to see. The fact that we are geopolitical ally of China, does not change this fact.

And I have no hatred for anyone, please give your propaganda a rest for a change.

1. India is an ally of many Muslim countries many of whom prefer it over to Pakistan e.g. Afghanistan, Central Asian states, Iran and others.

I could look up information on all the various bi-lateral deals OIC states do with India.

But Hindutva nationalists consider Islam and Muslims anywhere in the world as a threat to their existence, so they are a threat for Muslims.

So you are affirming your thesis that India/Hindutva is the biggest threat/enemy of Muslims on earth.

I doubt Afghans, Iranians and others would agree.

Heck even Turkey, the country which has the most flowery rhetoric of eternal friendship with Pakistan, has good relations with India and is seeking to upgrade them, with a 1 billion strong BRIC consumer market.

Han Chinese nationalism and bullying is also in plain sight for many people to see. The fact that we are geopolitical ally of China, does not change this fact.

China does not interfere in the politics of foreign states or launch invasions unlike the US, UK, France or Russia (the 4 other permanent UN security members). US has invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya and bombs Pakistan and the UK supports them with troops. France has invaded Mali and Russia has had wars with Georgia and bullies ex-Soviet states.

If China is a "bully" what are these?

Anyway mentioning China is irrelevant here, because they are and always will be warm and respected friends of ours, despite what former Bharat_Rakshak members (such as yourself) say about them.

 

[ShadowFaux]

I partially agree with what kalu miah just said. We have to maintain balance.

@animalive, man, court e shakkho proman neya toh cholchhei. Two of them were already found guilty. Jamat leaders committed serious crimes. Thought you know that. If Shibir activists refrain themselves from trying to save those criminals, I would have no problem with them. Honestly, there is not much to dislike about them as human beings; except their su pport for war criminals and religious fanaticism. Also they lie and try to change history; and they spread propaganda to achieve their political goal. Ooops, not much to like abt them now, dammit.

@Loki, lets agree to disagree. I'll admit that I was a bit emotional. I just want the justice for 71.
About your questions, Jamatis want Bangladesh to be a India hating fundamentalist country. The Bangladesh I know will change if they stay in govt for too long. I also think, we cant afford to make India an enemy because of our geographical location. For our sake, we have to balance. I'm tired. Some other time will discuss the details. I've seen your posts. You seem like a non jamati nationalist. We both want a stable and prosperous country. So I won't respond to your personal attacks anymore. About Shahbag and Jamat, lets agree to disagree.
Oh abt the silver tongue thing, man i'm a bit sick. Cell e type krchhi. Typo chhilo kheyal korini.

 

[kalu_miah]

1. India is an ally of many Muslim countries many of whom prefer it over to Pakistan e.g. Afghanistan, Central Asian states, Iran and others.

I could look up information on all the various bi-lateral deals OIC states do with India.



So you are affirming your thesis that India/Hindutva is the biggest threat/enemy of Muslims on earth.

I doubt Afghans, Iranians and others would agree.

Heck even Turkey, the country which has the most flowery rhetoric of eternal friendship with Pakistan, has good relations with India and is seeking to upgrade them, with a 1 billion strong BRIC consumer market.



China does not interfere in the politics of foreign states or launch invasions unlike the US, UK, France or Russia (the 4 other permanent UN security members). US has invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya and bombs Pakistan and the UK supports them with troops. France has invaded Mali and Russia has had wars with Georgia and bullies ex-Soviet states.

If China is a "bully" what are these?

Anyway mentioning China is irrelevant here, because they are and always will be warm and respected friends of ours, despite what former Bharat_Rakshak members (such as yourself) say about them.

Yes, please use every piece of information you have for your propaganda, that will please your perceived masters. As I said, you lack comprehension, not just of the big picture, but of the real ground situation in Bangladesh, since you have spent virtually no amount of time there. You could be an expert of British politics, but not of Bangladesh politics or geopolitics, sorry. Ability to run propaganda yes, but expertise on politics, no.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Yes, please use every piece of information you have for your propaganda, that will please your perceived masters. As I said, you lack comprehension, not just of the big picture, but of the real ground situation in Bangladesh, since you have spent virtually no amount of time there. You could be an expert of British politics, but not of Bangladesh politics or geopolitics, sorry. Ability to run propaganda yes, but expertise on politics, no.

An emotional response.

No facts given to counter the facts that I presented.

 

[KRAIT]

@idune Indian Army has only 3% Muslims. So look at this. 97 % of IA which comprises majorly of Hindus and Sikhs are protecting over 180 million Muslims.

And protecting from whom ? Their own Muslim brothers in neighboring country who sends terrorists and create problems for Indian Muslims.

In India, if you are talented and hard working you can become, DRDO chief, President, Vice President, Chief Minister, Chief Justice of Supreme Court, Superstar, Cricketer, Successful Writer, Businessmen etc.

India has supported Iran even when US try to force us to stop trade with them. Cultural ties since centuries.
India has good ties with KSA. They handed over Abu Jundal to India.
India has good trade relations with UAE.
India has good relations with BD and offering financial help for mutual benefits.
India has good relations with Afghan people. India building schools, roads, hospitals etc.
In India, Afghan students are given scholarships and over 10,000 Iranians study in Indian colleges and universities.

When your brother from West were killing your people, it was India that helped MB and freed BD people.

So now tell me, who is better friend of Muslim nations than India.

 

[ShadowFaux]

Hammer makes a lot of sense. Bigger picture is clearer from outside rather than inside.