India Digs In Its Heels as China Flexes Its Muscles

[PlanetWarrior]

The Chinese and Indian governments have placed much emphasis on mutual trade. The fact of the matter is that China's trade policies have irked many nations (exporting without constraint but placing restrictions on imports). Before we criticise the Chinese though, we must look at the policy of most if not all developed nations in this regards. China just seems to have copied the policies of the western world rather well. India's threat to cut down or restrict Chinese imports is laughable. Do that and then what? Import at 3 times the price from Europe? Or 5 times from the price from Oz? The fact of the matter is that India and China have a symbiotic trade relationship. For India to counter Chinese policies then India must get off its lethargic butt and start paying attention to local manufacturing. It has the population numbers for cheap labour. It has the skills. It has the capital. It has the resources. Now what does China have which India doesn't? Oh yeah China has clean governance. Corrupt Indian governments who are way too busy filling up their pockets create opportunities for nations like China to walk over India. That is the shame of India. Not its lack of toilets or its curry eating habits but its corrupt leaders.

Ps. Chini is not a racist term when referring to Chinese in India. In fact Chini is an old age term which refers to the people of China. Co-incidentally "chini" in Hindi is also the term for sugar. Accordingly, if one has to speculate on this term then Hindus actually equate the chinese with sugar or sweetness? Go figure

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Hey, bro. I dont know why you can talk to people who even dont know where should defecate....... They lack basic common education. They are open defecation group.

India Failing to Control Open Defecation Blunts Nation?s Growth - Bloomberg

Whose toilet are you cleaning in Tokyo "bro"?

 

[chinapakistan]

Whose toilet are you cleaning in Tokyo "bro"?

aliens. And If I was in india I lose my job bcz I am sure there is no toilet cleaner in india, you guys definately dont need that position.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

aliens. And If I was in india I lose my job bcz I am sure there is no toilet cleaner in india, you guys definately dont need that position.

Trues indeed "bro". I previously mentioned that there exists a logical reason for the lack of toilets in India. With a pithole as large as China behind us why waste facilities building toilets. We just send our poop to China with compliments from the people of Hindustan. Sometimes the poop ends up in Tokyo tho

 

[Prometheus]

Trues indeed "bro". I previously mentioned that there exists a logical reason for the lack of toilets in India. With a pithole as large as China behind us why waste facilities building toilets. We just send our poop to China with compliments from the people of Hindustan. Sometimes the poop ends up in Tokyo tho

 

[chinapakistan]

Trues indeed "bro". I previously mentioned that there exists a logical reason for the lack of toilets in India. With a pithole as large as China behind us why waste facilities building toilets. We just send our poop to China with compliments from the people of Hindustan. Sometimes the poop ends up in Tokyo tho

India is the last area with open defecation group without modern civilazition. Why dont you guys save some money to do some basic education to your 80% open defecation citizen rather than making the biggest rocket firework in Christmas Day?

 

[indianpatriot]

India is the last area with open defecation group without modern civilazition. Why dont you guys save some money to do some basic education to your 80% open defecation citizen rather than making the biggest rocket firework in Christmas Day?

well i agree with you chinese troll in this!!!but toilets are not the only criterion that makes country powerful!!

 

[gpit]

Taiwan has no need for indian weapons. Few country import weapons from India as far as I know. The problem is that many of the weapon system produced in India are either obsolete or joint development. India does not produce anything useful without joint ventures.

But that doesn't prevent them from dreaming... they tend to dream big and do tiny, (Sorry, but is that a culture of theirs?) such as in 5 years the world forgets Shanghai, only remembers Bombay... Perhaps they are right, the world remembers Bombay how the terrorists rampaged it when under governance of democratic Indians.

Indians sell weapons to Taiwan...

 

[gpit]

.... We do Build from Small Bullets to Giant Aircraft carriers... Of course we are no Scroll of Knowledge which we do understand, But we certainly are aspiring to be there with the tiny steps taken today.... Our defense products are not export oriented, Its made to satisfy only local needs, as is the primary goal which we are achieving.......

You build CA?

I guess you should rephrase it to "you assemble CA", which is still grossly over euphemistic...

 

[CardSharp]

Did you forget the Chola incident or the more recent 1987 skirmish?

Chola incident:
The 1967 Sino-Indian skirmish also known as the Chola incident, was a day-long battle between Indian troops and members of the Chinese People's Liberation Army in Sikkim, who had infiltrated the area. The end of the battle saw the retreat of the People's Liberation Army from Sikkim.

1987 Skirmish:
The 1987 Sino-Indian skirmish occurred at Sumdorong Chu Valley. This was the second conflict between the PRC and India, with the previous one taking place exactly a quarter of a century earlier. The two parties eventually did not engage in combat.

Somebody seems to be so forgetful! Early onset dementia, or selective anterograde amnesia?

Seriously, it's time to stop this charade. No western sources I've went through mentions these incidents as anything of importance (or even mentions them). They might be a nice salve for wounded Indian pride but please get a grip on reality. When I tracked down the exaggerated pro-Indian accounts for these incidents, half of them sourced to Bharat R.


These 'incidents' were a result of a poor demarcated frontier (ultimately India's responsibility). Both sides patrol what they think is their border and when the two overlaps, sometime fighting breaks out. This is also the reason why your BS media is able to yelp CHINESE INTRUSION every other month.

 

[gubbi]

Seriously, it's time to stop this charade. No western sources I've went through mentions these incidents as anything of importance (or even mentions them). They might be a nice salve for wounded Indian pride but please get a grip on reality. When I tracked down the exaggerated pro-Indian accounts for these incidents, half of them sourced to Bharat R.


These 'incidents' were a result of a poor demarcated frontier (ultimately India's responsibility). Both sides patrol what they think is their border and when the two overlaps, sometime fighting breaks out. This is also the reason why your BS media is able to yelp CHINESE INTRUSION every other month.

So was the '62 war. IA was ill prepared for any conflict and yet it took almost a month for PLA to defeat IA, after which PLA WITHDREW!!

In '67, just 5 years later, there was indeed a day long skirmish and PLA troops were pushed back. Whether it was intentional or an accident on PLA's part, the whole skirmish was due to a single boulder - a rock well in Indian territory - which PLA marked/colored as Chinese territory.

In '87, IA was conducting a huge army exercise in Arunachal Pradesh, which alarmed the PLA. PLA moved troops but both sides showed restraint, PLA being surprised by IA's strategic lift capability!

Now if you dont want to believe this, its your call. As you said, intrusions occur on a routine basis, some are accidental, some provocative to test others' patience. There are no saints here, if you know what I mean. Unless war objectives triumph economic incentives, India and China will NOT go to war either directly or through proxies (read 'coming to the rescue' of our bewildered neighbor), though minor direct skirmishes may not be ruled out.

As for our BS media, its their job to spew garbage most of the time. You see, our media is free and out of control, unlike the very excellent control your government exercises over your media!

 

[CardSharp]

So was the '62 war. IA was ill prepared for any conflict and yet it took almost a month for PLA to defeat IA, after which PLA WITHDREW!!

In '67, just 5 years later, there was indeed a day long skirmish and PLA troops were pushed back. Whether it was intentional or an accident on PLA's part, the whole skirmish was due to a single boulder - a rock well in Indian territory - which PLA marked/colored as Chinese territory.

In '87, IA was conducting a huge army exercise in Arunachal Pradesh, which alarmed the PLA. PLA moved troops but both sides showed restraint, PLA being surprised by IA's strategic lift capability!

Now if you dont want to believe this, its your call. As you said, intrusions occur on a routine basis, some are accidental, some provocative to test others' patience. There are no saints here, if you know what I mean. Unless war objectives triumph economic incentives, India and China will NOT go to war either directly or through proxies (read 'coming to the rescue' of our bewildered neighbor), though minor direct skirmishes may not be ruled out.

As for our BS media, its their job to spew garbage most of the time. You see, our media is free and out of control, unlike the very excellent control your government exercises over your media!

Again colour it in as you like but you're still making a molehill into a mountain. I don't care what dramatic language you use, "day long skirmish" "PLA troops pushed back" "insolent PLA patrol peeing on your well etc etc"

the casualty figures from your BR source is still

PLA

1 killed
9 wounded

IA

4 killed

Which says to me this is two patrol meeting and exchanging fire during one incident and some kind of stand off for the rest of the day (if it did actually lasted one day). Given the Chinese central government's 1960 standing order of deescalating in patrol encounters, (exact wording I forgotten since I've returned that book to my U. Library) this is the predictable outcome. India was not a concern and the Chinese leaders were keenly interested in not letting the situation escalate.

Ironically this is the same order/restrained patrolling that Nehru saw as weakness the first time around (thus green lighting the forward policy, see link) Chinese warfighting: The PLA ... - Google Books. To see this lesson being forgotten in only 5 years on is appalling and not to mention the fact that Indians still believe it today.


Being a science student, you ought to have some respect for both scholarship and objectivity.

 

[CardSharp]

Here I dug up the specific passage for you





BEIJING’S “ANTI-NIBBLING” OPERATIONS: CHINA ISSUES RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

In July 1962 Chairman Mao Zedong instructed the PLA on the guiding principles to counter India’s can shi zheng ce, or “nibbling policy.” Briefly stated, China’s “anti-nibbling” rules told PLA troops: “Never make a concession, but try your best to avert bleeding; form a jagged, interlocking pattern to secure the border; and prepare for long-time armed co-existence.”36 The PLA General Staff Department headquarters told Chinese troops to implement the rules of engagement strictly, and explained the guiding principles in greater detail:
Quote:

• If Indian troops do not open fire, Chinese frontier guards should not open fire.
• If Indian troops press on toward a Chinese sentry post from one direction, Chinese frontier guards should press on towards the Indian stronghold from another direction.
• If Indian troops encircle Chinese frontier guards, another Chinese force should encircle the Indian troops.
• If Indian troops cut off a retreat route for Chinese forces, Chinese frontier guards should cut off the Indian troops’
retreat.
• Chinese forces should keep a distance away from Indian troops, leaving them some leeway, and withdraw if Indian forces permit withdrawal.

CONCENTRATING FORCES AND AUDACIOUS ACTION: PLA LESSONS FROM THE SINO-INDIAN WAR

Dr. Larry M. Wortzel
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/people.cfm?authorID=30

 

[CardSharp]

As for our BS media, its their job to spew garbage most of the time. You see, our media is free and out of control, unlike the very excellent control your government exercises over your media!

Seriously? The child in you just had to throw in some obligatory cheap shot without thinking? I am a Canadian citizen and have been since I was a kid, I don't read Chinese or Chinese news, so tell me how am I brainwashed and controlled the Chinese government media?

The difference between media in China and India is the Chinese see the bars of the cage and Indians don't. In the case of the former, they're made into natural skeptics and in the latter case, people in the gilded cage will crow thoughtlessly about how they have a monopoly universal truth.

I respect the freedom of expression and laws like the first amendment, but I also realize that a free media doesn't guarantee a clear and objective view of the world, you still have to do the work. Petty triumphalism like yours is crude and unintelligent.

 

[faithfulguy]

You do not know about Indian weaponary, India does promote Indigenous Stuffs but not to the extent it promotes Imported Stuff, but that dosent mean we do not produce anything useful.... We do Build from Small Bullets to Giant Aircraft carriers... Of course we are no Scroll of Knowledge which we do understand, But we certainly are aspiring to be there with the tiny steps taken today.... Our defense products are not export oriented, Its made to satisfy only local needs, as is the primary goal which we are achieving.......

I was only responding to how some Indians want to sell weapons to Taiwan, Japan and Korea to counter China. In terms of purchasing weapons, these countries can get weapons from US and Europe. I'm certain that they have no need for Indian weapons. As for usefulness, I'm certain that Indian produced hardware are good stuff for Indian arm forces.