India Accepts Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force

[Windjammer]

Dramatic Big talk without substance...

Try reading through the previous posts, that is exactly what is happening, our warplanes having a stroll up to Kharian and returning unharmed.

And this wasn't like the mentioned incident in 1997 over Islamabad, then the excuse was lack of capability to stop us, this time around it seems more like a lack of will.

And for some who had the capability, i guess lack of will, appetite, nerves amongst host of other things kept them in their nest.

Pakistan violated Indian air space 23 times in 3 years - India - DNA

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

how can i be "dodging" when you have yet to pitch

 

[bandit]

And for some who had the capability, i guess lack of will, appetite, nerves amongst host of other things kept them in their nest.

Read your own source kid, read....even Bangladesh managed to come 10 km within the border....

Former air chief marshal FH Major, who headed Indian Air Force (IAF) during 2007-2009, told DNA, �Violations take place due to bad weather and technical problems.�

Each country has a certain area near the international boundary which is not to be violated or crossed till a certain distance, and which differs for every country. Between India and Pakistan, adjoining the Line of Control, there is a 10 km buffer area which too is not to be crossed. If violated, it�s considered violation of the border.

how can i be "dodging" when you have yet to pitch

You don't have to act that stupid to wiggle out

Your claim has been proven false and all you can do is dumb word play

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

it generally isnt my policy to dignify indian trolls who dont even know what they are talking about with a response...as for wiggling out -- well you as the "pitcher" here are the one doing the wiggling it seems.


the last time an aircraft from your side engaged in 'tresspassing' it was forced to land; once again our side showed mercy and didnt force your men to walk across the Wagah border

indians tend to forget our leniency

 

[Storm Force]

PAF is a leading air force in small parts only.

THAT IS.

Good AWACS cover added recently( although i dont like turbo prop platform)
F16/52 FIGHTERS as good as anything in IAF inc SU30MKI ( BUT only 1 sqd)
F16 MLU will give BVR with amraams big improvement ( not enough at only 45 planes)
JFT long term solution to replaceing 300 obselete F7/ MIRAGES...WITH A 4 GEN PLATFORM.... (BUT ONLY 36 inducted in 3 years and is the JFT good enough in 10 years time)

Big weaknesses in PAF stopping it being a LEADING power

poor SAM coverage
no ABM coverage and no plans to tackle this seriously
no late 4th generation twin engined multi role platforms
80% of current PAF fleet is obselete mirages 5 & F7 from china
Very small budget infact its TINY
AMERICAN INFLUENCE in PAF is declining which means training and developing TOP notch western standards are being lost
PAF bases lack security as demonstrated in recent events ie 2 terror attacks and a USA navy seal attack to kill OBL. showed.

Now ASK YOURSELVES is PAF a leading power AND TRY TO BE HONEST ....

TRY to keep iaf out of this assessment

 

[John Doe]

Apparently, the IAF aircrafts had two objectives. To determine the response time and capabilities of PAF and to deliver the message of the hard liners in GoI, that they are prepared for the strikes. IAF clearly didn't have the instructions to lock-on or engage, otherwise they would've done so when PAF jets took off. They were returning, got locked-on and had instructions to stand down.
IAF pilots completed their mission and PAF pilots completed theirs (i.e. "repelled" the enemy).

Yes, I had a talk with someone who saw those photographs. All I got to know was IAF birds had a load of PGMs. That is why Pakistan's military was afterwards like *$hit just got serious* and panicked later on.

Sir, That was a very classy and level headed reply. Kudos! You know, if I had known that you were not a typical childish poster, I would have certainly toned down my post. For that, I hope that you will give me another chance.
About the topic at hand, see below:

A small package consisting of MKI's and one other aircraft type... the MKI was locked on(IR & Radar) as it was intercepted by not one but eventually multiple flights of PAF fighters. Trailed with the lock all the way to Kharian and back out the border.

Neither side engaged.. and I can only imagine what went on in the minds of the pilots in the MKI and that of the chasing fighter.
One had bells and whistles going off(there were taking moderate evasive manoeuvres as has now come to light) and the other had a loud and clear tone of a solid lock.

I believe that none of us are in any position to know what lights and sounds went off in any cockpit, let alone in this instance. Till any actual proof, or even something as simple as a statement by any serving PAF officer claiming that MKI's has crossed over to fly over Pakistan comes out in the public domain, I will stick to what I am pasting below.

What I offer instead is a link to a very factual, non-jingoistic article that should put a lot of Pak hearts at ease about the key role played by your nukes vs. India. To quote from this Indian Express article:

"There was also another incident about an Indian plane violating Pakistan airspace which apparently led to a F-16 scramble on the Pakistan side. Islamabad lodged a strong diplomatic protest. India denied with equal conviction. But at the same time the Air Force was asked to carry out an investigation.

The result was that there was indeed some violation by a reconnaissance plane of the Aviation Research Centre, RAW�s air wing, that was conducting a sortie along the LoC. This aircraft, perhaps, went too close to the LoC, violating the rule that both sides will not send their aircraft that near."

26/11: How India debated a war with Pakistan that November - Indian Express

 

[Contrarian]

the last time an aircraft from your side engaged in 'tresspassing' it was forced to land; once again our side showed mercy and didnt force your men to walk across the Wagah border

indians tend to forget our leniency

No one forgets Pakistani leniency Abu. Especially when they are lenient enough to export terrorists..sorry..jehadis throughout the globe! Pakistan never lets any nation of the world forget this right from India to US to UK to Afghanistan to even China.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

"au contrarian"

your country has "exported" its fair share of terrorists too

 

[Contrarian]

Not using our own countrymen no. Much too wise for that.
You crossed the safe time limit of radicalizing and using your own population.

 

[Vinod2070]

it generally isnt my policy to dignify indian trolls who dont even know what they are talking about with a response...as for wiggling out -- well you as the "pitcher" here are the one doing the wiggling it seems.


the last time an aircraft from your side engaged in 'tresspassing' it was forced to land; once again our side showed mercy and didnt force your men to walk across the Wagah border

indians tend to forget our leniency

I guess nothing was more lenient than letting the 93000 get away with the atrocious workmanship on the Delhi Meerut road.

That standard may have been good enough for the tribal areas, not for us though.

 

[bandit]

I guess nothing was more lenient than letting the 93000 get away with the atrocious workmanship on the Delhi Meerut road.

That standard may have been good enough for the tribal areas, not for us though.

That figure came to my mind too when I read something about pity and leniency.

But then I also remembered something about not dignifying trolls, good to learn something new everyday.

 

[SQ8]

That idiotic conclusion was all yours to reach since that was not what I meant.

Anyways the professional pilots were following their orders to the letter, my question was, why was such an order of letting fully armed planes go unchallenged issued. There you may find why fear may have been a valid factor.

Really?
Just think on what you have just said.

Governments on both sides are not insane to jump the gun..as you suggest
During the Cuban Missile crisis there were explicit orders given to the US Navy NOT to allow any soviet trawlers to cross the blockade line into cuba. The US navy was prepared to follow these orders to the letter T.. however the US government allowed a few violators through to ensure that the situation did not escalate while back channels were being tried.

The same situation prevailed here, Those fighters were intercepted and engaged, but not given permission to be fired upon until the hotline between the leaderships of both countries cleared that up.
Hence.. I repeat .. a quick, jingoistic .. idiotic conclusion on your part.

If there was any fear.. it was of an all out armed conflict and not of engaging your fighters and blowing them up.

PAF officer claiming that MKI's has crossed over to fly over Pakistan comes out in the public domain, I will stick to what I am pasting below.

That incident is wholly unrelated to this one.
Also, when the same news is reported in the Pakistani press about the violation.. it is poo poohed??
Each side avoids publishing details of close calls and encounters precisely to ensure that the media and public dont jump the gun.
When such close calls are true of the Cold war and usually come to light only after documents are declassified or retired officials come forward(and believed.. I am surprised that in our case it is difficult to accept and swallow.

 

[Windjammer]

Read your own source kid, read....even Bangladesh managed to come 10 km within the border....

Well, old man....that should acutely put you in your place..... if you get the drift. !!

 

[bobbybabu007]

It has become the truth in dominating skies in the 21st century that sheer number of low quality aircraft in the sky(be it new or old) is no good for an aspiring air force. during the 1971 war, India lost around 2 times the aircraft that Pakistan lost. but still, Pakistanis accept India won the air. Indian Air Force, unlike the Indian politicians are far sighted and have long accepted this truth.

Else, how would we have gone for the Sukhoi 30 when huge numbers of f16's were offered to us. Now, 300 no of PAKFA and a 270 no of Su30 with the Rafale's in order will keep the Indian skies safe for another 20 years or beyond....

 

[bobbybabu007]

Bragging,.......

yes, we may have an old inventory at a major scale, at least we update it till the best versions possible....

exclude the mig21's, they are done upgrading......... they are prestigious scrap now.......(in the hands of the IAF pilot, they can still bring down all the JF17's in PAF arsenal)

Remember the jaguars? they are being upgraded now to go well beyond 2030

And, we dont need any other jets in the sky to take out all of the PAF, just the Su30 is enough(Mig 29 is the renowned F16 killer)