In Pakistan, ‘liberal’ is a dirty word

[Pfpilot]

Is the concept of liberalism even understood in Pakistan? Are we talking here of people who want freedom of expression and the opportunity to do as they please or do we speak of those who simply speak out against the horrid crimes carried out by the few who claim to represent a version of Islam that most of us find completely alien to the message of peace recited to us, over and over again by our elders.
Liberalism is the label given to anyone who does not believe in the current path of Pakistan; it is used as a derogatory term for all those who want Pakistan to wake up from its slumber and create a nation where different ethnicities and religions co-exist...where a Pakistani is proudly Pakistani first and Punjabi and Balochi and Sindhi second...where we dont think twice about each others' religious leanings, knowing and understanding we are as Pakistani as the person across from us. A nation where kidnappings and extortion and murder are not the norm is not a nation running amok with liberalism, but a place we all dream of.
What most Pakistanis want is not a sign of liberalism, but a people who ask only for the most basic and fundamental rights of any proud nation. Wanting equality and peace and education is not liberalism (atleast for the past few hundred years). It is merely expecting the bare minimum.
That is not to say there aren't liberals in Pakistan, but the word is misused for people who are generally very conservative in their lifestyles and thought, but only speak up against gross abuse of laws and rights.
Maybe if we listen to these people and get on a path of a more accepting and less rigid culture, real liberals may actually get a chance to flourish...then Pakistanis who disagree with their views can bash them all they want. But till such a time comes, why not look past generic terms and see why many Pakistanis are true patriots, not conveniently named liberals.

 

[RazPaK]

There is a difference between a liberal and a liberal fascist.


When people use the latter term it is usually to signify a traitor. One that totes principles of western democracy, which has no place in Pakistan. I'm all for democracy but the western version is simply not compatible with our people.

Most people on this forum would be surprised to know that the Mullahs are surprisingly more "liberal" and "secular" than most people would like to credit them with. Most of our Mullahs did not want to even separate from India.

 

[truthseer]

There is a difference between a liberal and a liberal fascist.

A liberal and a fascist have totally polar views. That word can not exist

 

[RazPaK]

A liberal and a fascist have totally polar views. That word can not exist

A liberal that cannot tolerate conservative views would be it. Just sayin..

 

[truthseer]

A liberal that cannot tolerate conservative views would be it. Just sayin..

Do you know what a fascist is? A fascist seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture

Now sit back a second and tell me whether a conservative or a liberal fits this best

 

[RazPaK]

Do you know what a fascist is? A fascist seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture

Now sit back a second and tell me whether a conservative or a liberal fits this best

It depends on what they are liberal or conservative about?


And you do know that both liberalism and fascism descend from progressivism?

 

[truthseer]

And that has to do what with the discussion.

Did you know Americans and Kafirs and Muslims all descend from Hazrat Adam (A.S)

 

[Icarus]

Liberal, hahahahahahaha I just said it, I'm such a bad ***!


On-Topic: I am a very vocal secularist, I have a number of vocal Atheist friends, many people may oppose our beliefs but no one has ever threatened us to desert them.

 

[CrazyTycoon]

A liberal that cannot tolerate conservative views would be it. Just sayin..

If you understand the definition of liberal, then you'd know a liberal person cannot be a fascist.

 

[RazPaK]

I can refer you gents to some books if you really want to learn the grass roots of these movements. As of now you guys are playing with the technicalities of definitions.

What most Pakistanis are concered about is the specific segment of our society that consider our culture and religion in general as an obstacal towards progression. In my opinion it is a very skewed perception of progression.

 

[truthseer]

I can refer you gents to some books if you really want to learn the grass roots of these movements. As of now you guys are playing with the technicalities of definitions.

What most Pakistanis are concered about is the specific segment of our society that consider our culture and religion in general as an obstacal towards progression. In my opinion it is a very skewed perception of progression.

Two different things and neither have anything to do with actual liberals.

 

[RazPaK]

Two different things and neither have anything to do with actual liberals.

Have you by any chance studied political science because you keep humming the same tune while ignoring what i am writing.


And what might an actual liberal be? As per whose definiton are you going by?

 

[CrazyTycoon]

I can refer you gents to some books if you really want to learn the grass roots of these movements. As of now you guys are playing with the technicalities of definitions.

What most Pakistanis are concered about is the specific segment of our society that consider our culture and religion in general as an obstacal towards progression. In my opinion it is a very skewed perception of progression.

Religion and culture are both things that change over time, often for the better. Some people may think these things are an obstacle towards progression, some may not. A liberal person may not agree with you, but would understand you have the right to believe as you wish, opposed to many conservatives in Pakistan.

It's my belief that secularism is the best option for Pakistan to progress, although this wont happen until most Pakistanis themselves support secularism. And this wont happen for a long, long time.

 

[truthseer]

Have you by any chance studied political science because you keep humming the same tune while ignoring what i am writing.


And what might an actual liberal be? As per whose definiton are you going by?

The Oxford Dictionary definition. By it, most of the 'liberals' you're dissing aren't liberal

 

[RazPaK]

The Oxford Dictionary definition. By it, most of the 'liberals' you're dissing aren't liberal

See here is the problem. Liberalism is a concept and by no means set in stone. There are many off shoots to liberalism and a stark example would the libertarians.

I hope you starting to understand what i'm saying now.