In Pakistan, ‘liberal’ is a dirty word

[bc040400065]

common man needs roti and damn cares what liberalism is or not.

 

[Wright]

Thanks to "liberal Turks" and radical feminists in my country, we now have young girls aged 12 or 13 who have babies they can't look after. Some even "throw" their babies away. Disgusting.

Our society is slowly falling apart......



Were you there?

Dude you are over reacting. Turkey is considered the most successful muslim majority nation.
And no I was not there, but I saw youube videos. Better to have gay parades than suicide bombers.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Your definition of success is different from mine.

 

[Desert Fox]

Most Liberals i've known and seen are strongly Marxist and Anarchist in nature rather than Fascist as is accused of them. They believe that society in its traditional form, as we have known it for centuries, should be completely disposed of and replaced with a more "liberal" one, for example: they believe all women are equal to men in every aspect of life and therefore should have jobs rather than have children or become housewives/stay home moms, and if any do have children then they will be taken care of by state owned day care facilities. This is known as ultra feminism, which is a important part of Liberal beliefs. However they are robbing the women of her motherly duties and her duty to ensure the survival of her nation or race.

We can see the result of this in Europe as well as other western countries where women are discouraged from getting married, having children, and settling down as house wives, for as the European indigenous White population is declining due to decreasing birthrate they are steadily being replaced by immigrant population, majority of whom immigrated from Muslim countries in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia.

On the other hand, Nationalists and Fascists, who are right wingers and tend to cling on to tradition, believe in the preservation of ones nation and race, and contrary to liberals view of women, Nationalist and Fascists encourage women as well as men to have a healthy family life, to procreate in order to ensure the survival of the nation and race. Women are encouraged and educated on how to be a responsible wife and mother, while men are educated and encouraged on how to fulfill their duties as husbands and fathers.

If we want to see an example of what liberal rule can do to a society and nation, just take a look at Eastern Europe and whole of Russia as well as other former Soviet Republics after the disintegration of Marxist/Leninist Soviet Union, women are trafficked from those countries lured by the promise of jobs, their men have become drunkards and drug addicts, degeneracy has taken strong roots into their societies, their youth jobless, their birthrate in a sharp decline. Not to mention the immense impoverishment and poverty prevalent in those nations after the breakup of soviet union.

 

[Wright]

^^^ Declining birthrate is often a result of economic prosperity. Japan is not liberal in the Western sense, they are highly racist, yet they have one of the lowest birthrates. It's not a bad thing either, quality of life over quantity.

You could probably say the same about the UAE, as 70% of their population is immigrant, and their populatio is also low.

 

[Desert Fox]

^^^ Declining birthrate is often a result of economic prosperity.

Not really. Its more due to ultra feminists "empowering" women into believing that they are not "baby making machines", that they are equal to men in every aspect of life or superior, encouraging lesbianism, materialism, as well as other social factors prevalent in western societies.

Japan is not liberal in the Western sense, they are highly racist, yet they have one of the lowest birthrates.

Again, that is due to ultra feminism, the belief instilled in society that women don't have to have children, women can pursue careers, women are equal to men in every way.

It's not a bad thing either, quality of life over quantity.

And in the process destroy the future of your nation, as is in the case of Europe and Japan. Quality of life can depend on other factors like the economy, and say if the economy is in a recession or depression then does that improve quality of life?

 

[Pride]

People may get offended but Liberalism does not have place in Islam, Leave Pakistan. The problem is your thought process should be aligned as per jamaat or Holy Book and if anyone tries to go out of it become a matter of ire.

For a basic example, Islamic comes first before republic of Pakistan, so constitutional issues gets overridden of Pakistan. Liberal like me think of whole world as one human theory across the globe but then current owners of Islamist segregate this concept by Shia, Sunni, Ahemdiya, Kufr, Kaafir, Zion etc so the large group will not appreciate the fact.

Logical ability is also overridden by Islamic theory. Lets take example of "Ummah", My muslim friends now a day daily posting about Burmese muslims murdered by Junta/Buddhist (I dont know the truth and will not comment on it) but none of them seen Murder of Bodo Hindus by migrant muslim Bangladeshis. None of them shared this. One more such case, Many of them don't support Anna's fast and the reason is given that our Imam has said that this is Hindu agitation (interesting ??) and Ramdev is there who is Hindu saint (Wow!!).

I know many people migh not find this in good taste but again liberals will understand what I mean!

 

[Lightning Soul]

I think its all about the perception, the way how you see it. The definition of Liberalism also varies, for me if a Liberal Person sees that something is right for him even if its against the normal traditions/values of that place, he'll continue following it no matter what society thinks about him. People have a wrong concept about being liberal. Religion doesn't stop us from being Liberal. It doesn't always mean to be westernized, wearing short clothes, allowing homosexual marriages etc. It can also be about standing up for your Basic rights against the odds. For example, i think a Muslim woman who continue to wear Hijab in France despite of all the opposition she faces from the society is also a Liberal person. Unfortunately Majority of the Liberals are not what Liberalism is about. But people always attach the word 'Liberal' with what the majority do and Hence the definition of Liberalism is taken in a wrong context.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

People may get offended but Liberalism does not have place in Islam, Leave Pakistan. The problem is your thought process should be aligned as per jamaat or Holy Book and if anyone tries to go out of it become a matter of ire.
!

Here we go again our Indian liberal tell us that if we follow Islam then we will not be considered liberal. Would you care to define your personal definition of word "liberal" ? what makes you liberal? Is accepting any positive/negative change in society blindly without giving a second thought liberalism? Why do you think liberalism is not compatible with Islam? If you don't agree with opinions of many peoples regarding morality, religion, God etc then for them you are not liberal because you have different opinions and beliefs.

My definition of liberal is someone who welcome new positive change/ideas in society without rigid reactions. Someone who respect all human beings equally regardless of gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, medical status, age, nationality, sexual orientation or religion.

 

[A1Kaid]

Liberals tend to be tolerant people, most of my friends are liberal, in fact I have very few Muslim friends...

 

[get straight]

Express Tribune itself is a LIBERAL BLOG...

the pakistani liberals are western lackeys, i think as much as i dont like liberals, but they have indeed badnamedliberalism by becoming western or indian lackeys

 

[Lightning Soul]

People may get offended but Liberalism does not have place in Islam, Leave Pakistan. The problem is your thought process should be aligned as per jamaat or Holy Book and if anyone tries to go out of it become a matter of ire.

As i have also just mentioned in my previous post that Religion does not prevent us from being Liberal. But Liberalism also doesn't mean 'to have no Boundaries at all'

For a basic example, Islamic comes first before republic of Pakistan, so constitutional issues gets overridden of Pakistan. Liberal like me think of whole world as one human theory across the globe but then current owners of Islamist segregate this concept by Shia, Sunni, Ahemdiya, Kufr, Kaafir, Zion etc so the large group will not appreciate the fact.

Sorry but you yourself here is mixing and contradicting your own statement.At first you are discouraging the idea of Islam first which BTW is itself meant to be a Universal Religion (Not for any specific Race,Creed,Community But for all of the Mankind) but then you are supporting the idea of Nationalism over it by valuing the constitution of Pakistan more (which BTW itself is -meant to be- based under Islamic Rules and Regulations) so may i now call you a 'Narrow-Minded Conservative ? ' .

Actually Just like people here are taking the meaning of Liberalism wrongly just because of what some so-called Liberalists do , you are blaming Islam for what some Ignorant Muslims do. There is nothing called Shia,Sunni in Islam, the followers of Islam are only known as Muslims. You will not find a single sect mentioned in the Holy Quran or Ahadees

Logical ability is also overridden by Islamic theory. Lets take example of "Ummah", My muslim friends now a day daily posting about Burmese muslims murdered by Junta/Buddhist (I dont know the truth and will not comment on it) but none of them seen Murder of Bodo Hindus by migrant muslim Bangladeshis.

Again in Islam "Killing of one Innocent Human Being (No matter if he is a Muslim or Non-muslim) is equivalent to the Killing of whole Humanity" so you shouldn't blame Islam for the wrong-doings of some Ignorant Muslims.Killing of any Innocent person belonging to any religion should be condemned

 

[niaz]

There has been much confusion about what is meant by ‘Liberal’. Since we are using an English word, it is right that we should accept what it means in English. According to Oxford English Dictionary, (excluding the member of the liberal party). A liberal means:

A person willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas: a person of liberal views (in a political context) favoring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform.

The antonym of liberal is a ‘Conservative’ who is:

A person averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values: a person who is averse to change and holds traditional values.

In Pakistan’s context, I would define a liberal as a person who is tolerant of other’s opinions, open to new ideas and values individual liberty, whether male or female.

There are no true conservatives in Pakistan. Pakistan up to the bigot Zia era was a moderate country and majority followed Sufi Islam. By definition, a conservative would have liked to keep these traditions alive.

In Pakistan’s case, opponents of liberals are fundamentalist. These people are retrogressive and follow a far more rigid and unbending form of Islam imported from Saudi Arabia, where anyone not agreeing with you should be forced to obey or be killed.

These forces want to establish a dark age Islamic Caliphate. They claim to follow pure Islam but have adopted a ‘bidaa’ or innovation preached by Syed Qutub of Egypt whereby suicide
(forbidden in Islam) is not only permissible but even glorified. Acquiring knowledge is supposed to be the best kind of ‘jihad’ according to one Hadith. But we see schools destroyed every day by these forces.

Tragedy is that not only the illiterate, but also many intellectuals and educated persons who openly or covertly support these forces. It is this influence that liberals are labeled as infidels and we see posts such as:

Quote

“Because Liberalism they are trying to promote is in fact kufr and they are doing on by getting funded by USA but they will fail eventually because they are bound to fail only Islam will prevail and all other kufr based ideologies are bound to fail now these people either will have to follow Islam or face defeat and run away”

Unquote

As a liberal, I believe everyone has a right to express his/her opinion as long as it is NOT thrust on me by force. It is up to my countrymen to decide whether they would like see a liberal Pakistan or a country like Taliban Afghanistan because ultimately it is the people who are the masters of their destiny.

 

[A1Kaid]

the pakistani liberals are western lackeys, i think as much as i dont like liberals, but they have indeed badnamedliberalism by becoming western or indian lackeys

That is a good point, many of the Pakistani liberal types do come off as western lackeys, not all of course. Though that isn't because of them being liberal, but there is a correlation.

 

[Pride]

Here we go again our Indian liberal tell us that if we follow Islam then we will not be considered liberal. Would you care to define your personal definition of word "liberal" ? what makes you liberal? Is accepting any positive/negative change in society blindly without giving a second thought liberalism? Why do you think liberalism is not compatible with Islam? If you don't agree with opinions of many peoples regarding morality, religion, God etc then for them you are not liberal because you have different opinions and beliefs.

My definition of liberal is someone who welcome new positive change/ideas in society without rigid reactions. Someone who respect all human beings equally regardless of gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, medical status, age, nationality, sexual orientation or religion.

I knew You (Pseudo liberal) will come back and I am ready for that for positive discussion (if you do with open mind). There were (and still are) many malpractices in different religion/beliefs which were time to time discussed by their clerics and corrected. I have still to see a big example from Islam. Just to quote few, Untouchability, Purdah etc were malpractices in Hinduism which got revived time to time (may be at few places exist but those are negligible). Christians stopped listening to Pope for any political/religious matter.

The point is evolution which is necessary for any religion. Most of us know by heart that Burqa, 4 marriages for man etc are nothing but a representation of suppression and any belief related to science cant be quoted. Though all believers come and become staunch supporters for the same give thousands of ill-logical reasons. if you are liberal allow 4 marriages for ladies as well why so different attitude. Why you always find religious factor in killing of Palestine/Kashmir in the world and never heard comments for thousands dying in many middle eastern/African Muslim country because that is killing by Muslims among themselves.

If you are liberal then why Blasphemy Law?? If someone is saying to my god, I might prove him wrong or move away but directly hang him up seems liberal to you.

For one or anything, Barelvi/ Deobandi or other islamic institution come up with one or other Fatwa and then they start looking for forcibly implementation of it. Take very famous example of Salman Rushdie. He wrote blasphemous, I agree, but then you can ban book rather than Khomeini need to looking for head of him??

Personal examples, Liberal friend of mine who married to a Sikh girl later used to travel with me but whenever jamaat comes they catch hold of him and brainwash him for an hour which include not to get involved with Hindus and come to mosque every time. The point is not jamaat but the point is the way of life one want to chose. I dont follow many of my religion's practice but no one even bothered me (well even if they do I respond in the same way as I am doing here).

Liberalism is not to think on the same league which has been written in somewhere and told by thousands but what you see is wrong is to accept and change it.