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Imran Khan urges an end to state oppression,brutalities against IOK !

IK stopping thinking of Kashmir. Look at rest of the nation. They all are worried more about Education, Economy and R&D.

KSA just opened an Advance Research Institute in their own country. Same KSA who funds Madrassahs and Jehadis in Pakistan.

Forget Kashmir for a decade and focus on what you have.
 
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This is fake concern that every politician and general in Pakistan show towards Kashmiri's, Election time stunt.
 
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Apne ghar mein aag lagi hai aur doosre ke ghar ke paint mein kharabi nikaal raha hai.. :lol:

All this is election posturing
 
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The thing is they this is just s political statement. bring Kashmir issue into light takes the voters into confidence and trust. (happens in india too).

He should focus more on eradicating terrorism from Pakistan and should
worry about the tribals living close to the durand line.

Apne ghar mein aag lagi hai aur doosre ke ghar ke paint mein kharabi nikaal raha hai.. :lol:

All this is election posturing

exactly mate.
 
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@karan.1970 See the thread on KSA new Advance Research institute. :D

KSA also funds Jehadis in Pakistan. :enjoy:
 
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just chill yaar its only a political stunt since elections are near in Pakistan expect even zardari, nawaz to make such statements just wait for few more months and we will see Modi and Rahul doing the same and after that everything will be as it is damn we south asians are so emotional always fooled by our politicians
 
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If Imran Khan and his ilk are so concerned about the 'aspirations of the Kashmiri people' he should ask as to why Pakistan has gifted 5000 sq km of Kashmir territory known as the Karakoram Tract to China without the permission of the Kashmiri people?

First give the land back to the Kashmirs who are the rightful owners and then we'll talk.



‘India’s claims of Pakistan ceding territory in 1963 are false’

NEW DELHI: Prominent lawyer AG Noorani has rebuffed the impression created by the Indian government, and widely accepted by Kashmiri leaders, that Pakistan ceded some Kashmiri territory to China in 1963.

At an Indo-Pak peace conference on Monday, People’s Conference Chairman Sajjad Ghani Lone had accused Pakistan of “gifting” Kashmiri territory to China. A few years ago, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front chief Amanullah Khan had levelled similar allegations. Separatists have recently picked up the issue and demanded Beijing’s involvement in the Kashmir dispute. “Based on documentary and archival evidence, Pakistan did not cede any land. On the contrary, it was China which ceded 750 square miles of administered territory to Pakistan under the Pakistan-China boundary agreement of March 3, 1963,” Noorani told Daily Times.

He said according to Article 2 of the agreement, after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations about the boundary with the Chinese government of the People’s Republic of China.
 
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IK stopping thinking of Kashmir. Look at rest of the nation. They all are worried more about Education, Economy and R&D.

KSA just opened an Advance Research Institute in their own country. Same KSA who funds Madrassahs and Jehadis in Pakistan.

Forget Kashmir for a decade and focus on what you have.




Vote Bank dude, Vote bank... Before UP election Mulla-yam singh was talking about Reservation for Muslims in job.. :P
 
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Well thanks for your perspective.

1. Insurgency would not have kept alive for so long if it did not have local support. If you simply state it as a matter of Pakistan seeding insurgency, then you are not looking at reality as it is. Ignore the situation at your own peril.

2. COIN strategy as you have mentioned may or may not work. If you are not addressing the root causes, you are wasting resources. Fact is that in all my travels, I have yet to come across a single Kashmiri who wanted to stay with India.

3. It is best to engage with Pakistan and be flexible in your approach. A solution acceptable to India, Pakistan, and (most importantly) Kashmiris could certainly be found. Only a flexible attitude is required. Stubbornness would get no one anywhere. Pakistan has shown enough flexibility, without a single iota of reciprocation from India. Hard to sustain a positive outlook in face of apathy.

Here my perspective goes....

1. It is your thinking that Insurgency still going on in Kashmir... Kashmir is much much much more peaceful when compared with 1989... All the insurgency are caused by the terrorist infiltrating into India with Pakistani shelling cover.... There may be some minority Kashmiri's who fall for the sugary words of the terrorist leaders... Not all Kashmiri's... If you say that then no one should vote in Elections. So key here is... Indian army should prevent the terrorist infiltration in the LOC, RAW should avoid another Kargil/Mumbai Attacks and India should keep the separatist under its control.

2. If all those Kashmiri's do NOT want to stay with India then they can emigrate to Pakistan or any country of their choice.... It they who took up violence in the first place... Army are best resource when they are behind their barracks, The Army is not present in civilian areas in Punjab or Haryana... and not in Kashmir before 1989! So what is special about 1989... The year the Mujaheddin's were diverted after the Soviets left... Now the Americans are leaving... So Indian army should not let the repeat of 1989 again!

3. The best strategy is avoid infiltration and another terrorist attack (Near to impossible task, but should do!) Keep Pakistan with Monkey's trap.... Concentrate on economy and increase the defense budget(), Now India's defense budget is 6 times to that of Pakistan, The next year it should be 6.5% and like this it should go for atleast 1 or 2 decades... with very credible ABM system and fool proof second strike capability! Everything will fall in place! Hit it where hurts.... The terrorists are the needle which Pakistan uses to prick India.. blunt it.. break it... Make the other end sharp such it Pricks Pakistan!
 
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‘India’s claims of Pakistan ceding territory in 1963 to China are false’
Just to put you wise....

The Shaksgam Valley or the Trans Karakoram Tract is part of Hunza-Gilgit region of Pakistan Administered Kashmir, and is a disputed territory claimed by India but controlled by Pakistan. It borders Xinjiang Province of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) to the north, the Northern Areas of Pakistan Administered Kashmir to the south and west, and the Siachen Glacier region to the east.

The Shaksgam Valley was ceded to China by Pakistan in 1963 when both countries signed a boundary agreement to settle their border differences. However, Article 6 clearly stated that “the two Parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People's Republic of China, on the boundary as described in Article Two of the present Agreement, so as to sign a formal Boundary Treaty to replace the present agreement.”

The agreement laid the foundation of Karakoram highway which was built jointly by the Chinese and Pakistani engineers in 1970s.

Do you have any more doubts left now? I guess not.

Bottom line: Pakistan ceded 5000sq km of Kashmir to China in 1963 which was NOT according to the wishes and aspirations of the people of Kashmir. Did Pakistan even ask the Kashmiris before unilaterally gifting their territory to the Chinese? So what 'aspirations' are they talking about?
 
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Well thanks for your perspective.

1. Insurgency would not have kept alive for so long if it did not have local support. If you simply state it as a matter of Pakistan seeding insurgency, then you are not looking at reality as it is. Ignore the situation at your own peril.

2. COIN strategy as you have mentioned may or may not work. If you are not addressing the root causes, you are wasting resources. Fact is that in all my travels, I have yet to come across a single Kashmiri who wanted to stay with India.

3. It is best to engage with Pakistan and be flexible in your approach. A solution acceptable to India, Pakistan, and (most importantly) Kashmiris could certainly be found. Only a flexible attitude is required. Stubbornness would get no one anywhere. Pakistan has shown enough flexibility, without a single iota of reciprocation from India. Hard to sustain a positive outlook in face of apathy.

Dear Chak Bamu, Excuse me if I cannot address yourself appropriately. (I do not anything about you)

Please also excuse the fact that I cannot go into certain details(not a cop out but I have to restrict certain things for the greater good of the people of Kashmir)

I will regret writing the points below because they will be misinterpreted here.


1) on your first point, the people of Kashmir valley are victims of alien ideas, and there is almost no blame on the past insurgency on their part. In fact the average Kashmiri does not know how to react to aggression. I am making the point that they have known only peace for most of their existence protected by the mountains and the dwellers of the hills. It was called paradise on earth not just for its natural beauty but because it was a melting pot of philosophical thought.
So no the people have not sustained an insurgency. I know its hard for you to believe but the insurgency was/is and will be foreign.

2) On your second point, "In your travels" however I am part of Kashmir I live and breathe the people. I cannot expect outsiders, yes some maybe disenfranchised, to be able to voice an opinion when they are of course going to voice their grievance. They are no longer there and see it through the looking glass or (not in your example) rose tinted glasses.
After all they left for various reasons. Here I may bring up the Kashmiri Pundits, How many of them did you interview in your travels?

BTW any attempt to erode the Sufi/Hindu/Buddhist/Secular/Spiritual/Atheist (and any other you may like to add) freedom loving make up of this land will be met with immense resistance.

3) On your third point if you believe its stubbornness then good for you. I have witnessed Pakistan and if I do not wish to engage its demands then you may call it stubbornness or whatever. As far as apathy goes. All the people of Kashmir regardless of their name cast or creed are under protection and giving them freedom from a single minded identity is paramount. It is the will of the people, I care not if it against your personal wishes. Freedom is not being single minded(Religion) its being allowed to do as the heart wills and cannot be imposed on another.
 
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Just to put you wise....

The Shaksgam Valley or the Trans Karakoram Tract is part of Hunza-Gilgit region of Pakistan Administered Kashmir, and is a disputed territory claimed by India but controlled by Pakistan. It borders Xinjiang Province of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) to the north, the Northern Areas of Pakistan Administered Kashmir to the south and west, and the Siachen Glacier region to the east.

The Shaksgam Valley was ceded to China by Pakistan in 1963 when both countries signed a boundary agreement to settle their border differences. However, Article 6 clearly stated that “the two Parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People's Republic of China, on the boundary as described in Article Two of the present Agreement, so as to sign a formal Boundary Treaty to replace the present agreement.”

The agreement laid the foundation of Karakoram highway which was built jointly by the Chinese and Pakistani engineers in 1970s.

Do you have any more doubts left now? I guess not.

Pakistan gave up its claim to the tract under a border agreement with China in 1963 with the proviso that the settlement was subject to the final solution of the Kashmir dispute.
So you wanted the chinese and pakistani to fight over a border that was defined by the british as to make sure there was conflict.....a bit the border between india and china.
The border was put along a more natural route with the kashmir actually gaining more land.




Bottom line: Pakistan ceded 5000sq km of Kashmir to China in 1963 which was NOT according to the wishes and aspirations of the people of Kashmir. Did Pakistan even ask the Kashmiris before unilaterally gifting their territory to the Chinese? So what 'aspirations' are they talking about?

The only 'aspiration' the kashmirs want is to be free of india.

2. If all those Kashmiri's do NOT want to stay with India then they can emigrate to Pakistan or any country of their choice.

Even better still would be if you indians leave kashmir and emigrate to any country of your choice.......the kashmiris live there and have done for a long time.It is you indians that have come into kashmir and it should be you that leaves.
 
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Even better still would be if you indians leave kashmir and emigrate to any country of your choice.......the kashmiris live there and have done for a long time.It is you indians that have come into kashmir and it should be you that leaves.
Even better than this would be if Pakistanis leave Balochistan and emigrate to any country of their choice.......the Balochis live there and have done for a long time. It is you Pakistanis that have come into Balochistan and it should be you that leaves.
 
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Pakistan gave up its claim to the tract under a border agreement with China in 1963 with the proviso that the settlement was subject to the final solution of the Kashmir dispute.
So you wanted the chinese and pakistani to fight over a border that was defined by the british as to make sure there was conflict.....a bit the border between india and china.
The border was put along a more natural route with the kashmir actually gaining more land.






The only 'aspiration' the kashmirs want is to be free of india.



Even better still would be if you indians leave kashmir and emigrate to any country of your choice.......the kashmiris live there and have done for a long time.It is you indians that have come into kashmir and it should be you that leaves.

Tell that to my family and friends when you visit Kashmir, You will leave, yes you will, but knowing that you made a complete fool of yourself. We treat guests with utmost respect. However we retain the right to laugh our *** off when you are out of earshot.
 
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Dear Chak Bamu, Excuse me if I cannot address yourself appropriately. (I do not anything about you)

You can call me Zahid. But Chak Bamu is the village near Jullundher from where my Father and Grand Father migrated to Pakistan.

Please also excuse the fact that I cannot go into certain details(not a cop out but I have to restrict certain things for the greater good of the people of Kashmir)

I can not imagine why you feel the need for circumspection. I do not think anyone would really care. You are anonymous as it is.

I will regret writing the points below because they will be misinterpreted here.

Have no fear. Many will misinterpret, it does not matter.


1) on your first point, the people of Kashmir valley are victims of alien ideas, and there is almost no blame on the past insurgency on their part. In fact the average Kashmiri does not know how to react to aggression. I am making the point that they have known only peace for most of their existence protected by the mountains and the dwellers of the hills. It was called paradise on earth not just for its natural beauty but because it was a melting pot of philosophical thought.
So no the people have not sustained an insurgency. I know its hard for you to believe but the insurgency was/is and will be foreign.

In mid-90s I read a report on the Kashmir situation in Janes Defence. It described the transformation of local boys from being timid to being able to engage Indian troops. It also quoted a local Mullah taking pride in the fact that the local lads were not afraid anymore. It did note however that 'foreign' fighters were more hardcore and fearless in their engagements.

Nothing is fixed. During pre-1947 Dogra Raj Kashmiri Hatus were so timid that they would put up with any abuse from Dogras. Times change, circumstances change, thinking changes. Nothing is fixed. Kashmiris of the valley and adjoining areas may have been timid, but those from Poonch, Rawalakot, Mirpur, Bagh, Muzaffarabad were and are different. Kashmiris could well have continued to be the harmless and peaceful lot. But when a people is forced to demand rights, things begin to change. In the space of three generations you could have a drastically different mind-set. History has shown that again and again. When you talk about Kashmiris, you have to talk about all of them. While you may point at Hindu Pundits, I would point at those who rid themselves of Dogra raj in 1947. But we have to consider them all.

Hard core Wahabist ideas would likely be foreign to Kashmiris who converted from Buddhism. They incline more towards Sufi thought. I hope it stays that way.

2) On your second point, "In your travels" however I am part of Kashmir I live and breathe the people. I cannot expect outsiders, yes some maybe disenfranchised, to be able to voice an opinion when they are of course going to voice their grievance. They are no longer there and see it through the looking glass or (not in your example) rose tinted glasses.
After all they left for various reasons. Here I may bring up the Kashmiri Pundits, How many of them did you interview in your travels?

I did come across a Kashmiri pundit family, but apart from some mundane conversations, nothing was said about Kashmir. I had not known that they were Kashmiri Pundits. I only came to know later.

I have known Kashmiris who worked for civil rights, ****** groups, from the valley, not from the valley, etc.... Not one of them wanted to stay with India.

BTW any attempt to erode the Sufi/Hindu/Buddhist/Secular/Spiritual/Atheist (and any other you may like to add) freedom loving make up of this land will be met with immense resistance.

Understood.

3) On your third point if you believe its stubbornness then good for you. I have witnessed Pakistan and if I do not wish to engage its demands then you may call it stubbornness or whatever. As far as apathy goes. All the people of Kashmir regardless of their name cast or creed are under protection and giving them freedom from a single minded identity is paramount. It is the will of the people, I care not if it against your personal wishes. Freedom is not being single minded(Religion) its being allowed to do as the heart wills and cannot be imposed on another.

You are right in this. I agree. I hope Kashmiris manage their affairs as best as they see fit.

One point that I am not going to tire of making again and again is that Kashmiris do not wish to stay with India. Their forcible inclusion in India is not to long-term Indian benefit. As the centrifugal forces gather momentum sometime in future, Kashmiris would be among the first ones to split, Pakistan or no Pakistan.

Long term danger to India is not from outside, but from within. Indian leaders did their country and the whole region a disservice when they declared Kashmir to be a part of India.
 
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