Imran Khan urges an end to state oppression,brutalities against IOK !

[EXPERIMENT]

You can call me Zahid. But Chak Bamu is the village near Jullundher from where my Father and Grand Father migrated to Pakistan.



I can not imagine why you feel the need for circumspection. I do not think anyone would really care. You are anonymous as it is.



Have no fear. Many will misinterpret, it does not matter.




In mid-90s I read a report on the Kashmir situation in Janes Defence. It described the transformation of local boys from being timid to being able to engage Indian troops. It also quoted a local Mullah taking pride in the fact that the local lads were not afraid anymore. It did note however that 'foreign' fighters were more hardcore and fearless in their engagements.

Nothing is fixed. During pre-1947 Dogra Raj Kashmiri Hatus were so timid that they would put up with any abuse from Dogras. Times change, circumstances change, thinking changes. Nothing is fixed. Kashmiris of the valley and adjoining areas may have been timid, but those from Poonch, Rawalakot, Mirpur, Bagh, Muzaffarabad were and are different. Kashmiris could well have continued to be the harmless and peaceful lot. But when a people is forced to demand rights, things begin to change. In the space of three generations you could have a drastically different mind-set. History has shown that again and again. When you talk about Kashmiris, you have to talk about all of them. While you may point at Hindu Pundits, I would point at those who rid themselves of Dogra raj in 1947. But we have to consider them all.

Hard core Wahabist ideas would likely be foreign to Kashmiris who converted from Buddhism. They incline more towards Sufi thought. I hope it stays that way.



I did come across a Kashmiri pundit family, but apart from some mundane conversations, nothing was said about Kashmir. I had not known that they were Kashmiri Pundits. I only came to know later.

I have known Kashmiris who worked for civil rights, ****** groups, from the valley, not from the valley, etc.... Not one of them wanted to stay with India.



Understood.



You are right in this. I agree. I hope Kashmiris manage their affairs as best as they see fit.

One point that I am not going to tire of making again and again is that Kashmiris do not wish to stay with India. Their forcible inclusion in India is not to long-term Indian benefit. As the centrifugal forces gather momentum sometime in future, Kashmiris would be among the first ones to split, Pakistan or no Pakistan.

Long term danger to India is not from outside, but from within. Indian leaders did their country and the whole region a disservice when they declared Kashmir to be a part of India.

It May not mean much but Kudos to you Zahid, You have proved to be civil in your debate. I thank you for that.

Yet this debate may cause me to remove the internet shield I use to obscure my identity I am not comfortable with that. To say the least. I know you truly believe that Kashmir is a seething debacle that will blow in the face of India as a nation.

The Kashmiris you have met have probably given you this POV and you may also have read some history.

I really do not want to continue with debate.

You keep mentioning Dogra Raj, as if it was some entity of oppression. All the people of the Kashmir valley who have migrated (mostly for economic reasons) live in your so called "Dogra Raj" not in refugee camps but as citizens. The Dogra Raj you mentioned was not exclusive Hindu, The Dogras are of all religions, In fact diversity is encouraged amongst the Dogras.
Dogras will pay homage to all Sufi/Buddhist shrines in their path.

Oh and Indian leaders do not have much say in Kashmir, And no one did a disservice when they maintained the status quo.

I wish I could say that the Kashmiris have not suffered, however its really sad that people believe it is Indian conspiracy, and very unfair in saying that it is the Dogras that did this. The Dogras not only protected Kashmiris from Pakistan but they also have protected them from becoming another Bangladesh. Very few know this but that was the plan. I cannot say anymore.

Goodbye

 

[KS]

Now that one day has passed, still 89 days are left for Imran to solve the ptroblem..

 

[tarrar]

Everybody knows terrorist Indian occupying forces brutality in illegally occupied Kashmir & Indian terrorist forces brutality in Kashmir is nothing less than Israeli terrorism in Palestine.

Dr. Hafiz gave a very nice speech to a huge gathering yesterday & his speech had send cold shiver to the spin of India.

Kashmir INSHAALLAH will be freed & Kashmir INSHALLAH will be united once again with Pakistan, INHSAALLAH & AMEEN.

 

[Contrarian]

But Allah is with us and against you Pakistani's. That is why you have constantly tasted defeat in trying to get Kashmir.

Mashallah that Kashmir stays with India.

 

[KS]

But Allah is with us and against you Pakistani's. That is why you have constantly tasted defeat in trying to get Kashmir.

Mashallah that Kashmir stays with India.

Allah frankly does not even care what happens between two third world countries in a tiny speck of dust in the whole universe.

 

[Paan Singh]

Its been a fashion for pakistani leaders to bash india on 5th feb

 

[Contrarian]

Allah frankly does not even care what happens between two third world countries in a tiny speck of dust in the whole universe.

I know. Its just im absolutely sick of hearing Pakistani's keep talking about their god and religion as if that allows them to win on the battlefield. As if their religion is a ticket to victory!

I just dont understand how a collective populace of 160 million people gets fed this horse tripe and worse - believes in it hook, line and sinker!

 

[KS]

Its been a fashion for pakistani leaders to bash india on 5th feb

TIL that actually Pak declares an official holiday, all educational institutions are closed, all business observe a shutter down strike etc..genius, billions of rupees and millions of man hours go waste as a result of that for no useful thing..

I know. Its just im absolutely sick of hearing Pakistani's keep talking about their god and religion as if that allows them to win on the battlefield. As if their religion is a ticket to victory!

I just dont understand how a collective populace of 160 million people gets fed this horse tripe and worse - believes in it hook, line and sinker!

Well 330 million Gods > 1 God..

 

[anilindia]

Political barking....

 

[XTREME]

It's better to ask the Kashmiris first, what do they want

 

[INDIC]

he is just continuing bhutto's legacy of 1000 years war with India to gain votes.

 

[Ayush]

Its been a fashion for pakistani leaders to bash india on 5th feb

Or you can say an old and failed fashion statement.

 

[jaunty]

So it's the election time huh?

 

[naseem shah]

Political barking....

just like bjp or modi

 

[EXPERIMENT]

TIL that actually Pak declares an official holiday, all educational institutions are closed, all business observe a shutter down strike etc..genius, billions of rupees and millions of man hours go waste as a result of that for no useful thing..



Well 330 million Gods > 1 God..

330 million is a low number I would have expected more, sigh....well its a start