Importance Of Nuclear Submarines For Pakistan – OpEd by Commodore ( Retd) Anjum Sarfraz

[SQ8]

The commodore perhaps lost energy at the end of the article or it was edited short for him.

 

[Khafee]

Waiting for someone to do an OP on PN+PLAN post 27 Feb

 

[War Thunder]

Where is it under construction?

It was announced by the Government in Musharraf times or Zardari times I think.
You can look up google or try the history here in the forum.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-to-build-a-nuclear-submarine.158334/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistans-nuclear-submarine-project.176112/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-working-on-nuclear-submarine.429465/

Waiting for someone to do an OP on PN+PLAN post 27 Feb

Are you a Pakistani Emirati or an Emirati Emirati?

 

[Mugwop]

@MastanKhan
I prefer AIP

 

[Cookie Monster]

If we read the well briefed article

First is sea denial, then comes control etc...
Pakistan lacks a decent surface navy which aids sea denial...better use money on that front.
Pakistani's immediate concerns lie hardly few hundred kilometers away.
Nuclear subs add little advantage

The purpose of a nuclear sub isn't to control the sea...role of area denial(sea in this case) is already being served by the Agostas...and the new Chinese submarines are also on order.

Something like an SSBN has a more strategic value...namely second strike capability. As things stand currently in terms of technology the world over...the longest range types of missiles are ballistic missiles. If a nuclear country wants to have a true second strike capability then that country needs to develop ICBMs...with MIRV. Then in order to have these MIRV ICBMs fired from anywhere in the world from a submarine lurking in the ocean in some unknown location...a nuclear submarine is needed. Once a country has achieved this capability and has actively deployed enough SSBNs with enough nuclear tipped MIRV ICBMs to ensure its enemy's destruction...that country has achieved a true second strike capability. This capability alone would keep the enemy at bay from getting any ideas of a preemptive first strike to neutralize the land based nuclear weapons.

In short IF Pak ever got this tech...and had a few operational SSBNs with nuclear MIRV ICBMs(Pak would also have to develop ICBMs for this), Indian Navy's size wouldn't be much of a concern to them...bcuz their purpose wouldn't be to take on IN...rather they will be tucked away in some remote part of the globe on radio silence...as is the job of SSBNs.

 

[PAR 5]

Owing to its operational ability, Pakistan does not need Nuclear Powered Submarines that would be monetarily prohibitive to maintain and keep operational. Pakistan does however need an in house submarine building capability ASAP!

 

[Cookie Monster]

@MastanKhan
I prefer AIP

An AIP submarine can be submerged for far less time than a nuclear one. A nuclear sub also has a longer range as opposed to a conventional sub. This means a nuclear submarine can hide away further out in remote parts of the ocean making it literally hard enough to find like a needle in a haystack(the ocean being huge and all).

 

[Sine Nomine]

A combo of AIP+SSN is enough for us 15 AIP equipped SSK's and just 4 SSN's.
@Rashid Mahmood

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan
I prefer AIP

I do too---but then we will have to the nuc way.

 

[FuturePAF]

If we read the well briefed article

First is sea denial, then comes control etc...
Pakistan lacks a decent surface navy which aids sea denial...better use money on that front.
Pakistani's immediate concerns lie hardly few hundred kilometers away.
Nuclear subs add little advantage

Long range, long endurance subs can provide a potent sea denial force. A trio of Pakistani nuclear subs in the Indian ocean would through the entire IN off its plans of imposing a blockade, if they though those subs could be lurking within long range Anti-ship cruise missile range of the Indian carrier task forces.

In fact this year, The lone unaccounted for Pakistani AIP submarine PNS SAAD had the entire IN ASW force off trying to find it so they could make a move. They didn't find it for 3 weeks, and it through the IN's plans off. Had it been even 1 nuclear sub, which didn't need to come back to port for months, the IN could still be out there trying to find it.

BTW, just like the IN leased a Russian SSN, the PN could lease a Chinese SSN.

except the PN could lease a Type 093G LACM equipped SSN; max cruise missile range is 1500 km; which could make it a strategic platform as well as a long range carrier killer in conventional attack mode.

12 VLS tubes may be more than enough to be able to overwhelm an Indian Carrier's defense with the right tactics. Woudl the IN want to take those chances, and hence they would dedicated a significant portion of their ASW forces to finding these subs.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/type-93b.htm
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2017/11/satellite-photo-of-day-type-093-shang.html

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2017/11/satellite-photo-of-day-type-093-shang.html

Here is the Sub out on patrol;
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/russia-china-backing-japan-in-a-corner-2018-1

 

[Mugwop]

An AIP submarine can be submerged for far less time than a nuclear one. A nuclear sub also has a longer range as opposed to a conventional sub. This means a nuclear submarine can hide away further out in remote parts of the ocean making it literally hard enough to find like a needle in a haystack(the ocean being huge and all).

I agree but Nuclear submarines are noisy and their signature is a problem.

I do too---but then we will have to the nuc way.

oh

 

[Cookie Monster]

I agree but Nuclear submarines are noisy and their signature is a problem.

Yes...so far generally nuclear submarines are noisier than conventional submarines...still though their benefits outweigh their drawbacks.

 

[Mugwop]

Yes...so far generally nuclear submarines are noisier than conventional submarines...still though their benefits outweigh their drawbacks.

Yes it does but We are price sensitive when it comes down to such things.So lets see what happens

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yes it does but We are price sensitive when it comes down to such things.So lets see what happens

Yeah I meant that as a general statement. ALL countries who can go for nuclear submarines(having the funds and the tech) HAVE gone for nuclear subs. They are willing to accept the expensive R&D costs, expensive operating costs, and the fact that they are generally less stealthy than conventional subs...this means that the pros outweigh the cons. In case of Pak however...first Pak needs a thriving economy.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes it does but We are price sensitive when it comes down to such things.So lets see what happens

Hi,

At this time---we are better off with the conventional modern subs---.

Our projection of power needs to stay local---that is our saving grace---.