IAEA, Hypocrisy and Israeli Nukes.

[Peregrine]

I think that neighboring states of Izraeel needs to develop nukes as well. It will ensure peace in the middle east, and in this regard Pakistan can play an important role and we should, as izraeel is arming our enemy its only fair that we do the same for the betterment of the region

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I think that neighboring states of Izraeel needs to develop nukes as well. It will ensure peace in the middle east, and in this regard Pakistan can play an important role and we should as izraeel is arming our enemy its only fair if we do the same.

Pakistan did try that with Libiya

 

[Peregrine]

Pakistan did try that with Libiya

But Libya is not Izraeels neighbor, is it? i mean they don't share any boarders.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

But Libya is not Izraeels neighbor, is it? i mean they don't share any boarders.

Correct! but they were/are hostile to Israel.

 

[Lonely]

I think that neighboring states of Izraeel needs to develop nukes as well. It will ensure peace in the middle east, and in this regard Pakistan can play an important role and we should, as izraeel is arming our enemy its only fair that we do the same for the betterment of the region

Transfers to Libya. Although the U.S. intelligence community long had
suspected Libyan interest in developing nuclear weapons, most analysts attributed the
limited Libyan success to sanctions and lack of an indigenous scientific and
engineering base. The IAEA reported in February 2004 that Libya began receiving
centrifuge components from A.Q. Khan in 1997. Yet, the Section 721 reports did not
contain any text about a Libyan nuclear program until 2000. Then, the report noted
that the suspension of U.N. sanctions “has accelerated the pace of procurement
efforts in Libya’s drive to rejuvenate its ostensibly civilian nuclear program.” That
report hinted that a nuclear cooperation agreement with Moscow would play a key
role. Not until the report for January to June 2002 did the text note that Libya used
its secret services “to try to obtain technical information on the development of
WMD, including nuclear weapons.” If this was referring to Libya’s procurement of
a nuclear weapons design from A.Q. Khan, it seems to imply less willingness by
Khan to provide the plans than apparently was the case. The reports for the last half
of 2002 and first half of 2003 only mention technical exchanges related to dual-use
equipment.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL32745.pdf

Result: Pakistan was counted a Rogue State henceforth

The network exported two different things: knowhow
on uranium enrichment and weapons design,
and centrifugation technology. Its clients were North
Korea, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and maybe others. Once fully
matured, it comprised several main “nodes”: the United
Arab Emirates (UAE) (the “company’s headquarters”
starting in 1999), Malaysia, Turkey, and South Africa—
not including various personal properties around the
world.1 There were half a dozen “workshops” around
the globe, with Dubai serving as the main platform
for re-exporting.2 A. Q. Khan set up dozens of shell
companies to that effect, sometimes just for one-time use.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub832.pdf

 

[Peregrine]

Result: Pakistan was counted a Rogue State henceforth

I explicitly mentioned the word 'help'. In past the transfer was done by AQ Khan but this time Government of Pakistan should help these states to develop their own nukes especially Iran & Believe me that the moment Iran will acquire nukes there will be peace between them and Izraeel or if not, then no one will talk of surgical strikes against each other.

 

[nirreich]

I explicitly mentioned the word 'help'. In past the transfer was done by AQ Khan but this time Government of Pakistan should help these states to develop their own nukes especially Iran & Believe me that the moment Iran will acquire nukes there will be peace between them and Izraeel or if not, then no one will talk of surgical strikes against each other.

You lost me there - how could there be peace if Iran has nuclear weapons? Without nuclear weapons Iran supports terror organisations and destabilise moderate regimes in the entire region. Yes, give them nuclear weapons and they would stay calm...

BTW, AQ Khan worked for the Pakistani government, the entire attempt to portray his proliferation as a private initiative was quite ridicules.

 

[Peregrine]

You lost me there - how could there be peace if Iran has nuclear weapons? Without nuclear weapons Iran supports terror organisations and destabilise moderate regimes in the entire region. Yes, give them nuclear weapons and they would stay calm...

BTW, AQ Khan worked for the Pakistani government, the entire attempt to portray his proliferation as a private initiative was quite ridicules.

Actually nukes create deterrence and that averts any plans of misadventure between two belligerent states . It's a simple tactic to attain peace by pursuing MAD strategy.

 

[nirreich]

Actually nukes create deterrence and that averts any plans of misadventure between two belligerent states . It's a simple tactic to attain peace by pursuing MAD strategy.

Yea, it was a great success between Pakistan and India, and it averted "misadventures"

Since Pakistan acquired nuclear capabilities in the 1980's it actively began terrorising the entire India-held Kashmir with massive terror attacks which began almost immediately following the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of people killed in these attacks.

Later after Pakistan declared itself a nuclear weapons state by conducting nuclear tests in May 1998, it showed more restrains. Only a year later Pakistan launched the Kargil Operation to seize control on a territory inside Indian-part of Kashmir. Since 1999 terror organisations with Pakistan's support expanded their scope of activity beyond Kashmir and into the heartland of India: the Mumbai terror attacks of 26/11 2008 and the attack on the Indian Parliament house in December 2001 are just two examples.

Pakistan under its nuclear umbrella could launch more attacks against India while knowing that India would not risk a nuclear war and retaliate with conventional forces - which have overwhelming superiority over Pakistan military.

And now you are trying to convince Israel to place itself in the same corner of India, willingly.

Clearly, when you bring nuclear weapons into the equation you receive lasting peace. no doubt about it.

 

[Peregrine]

Yea, it was a great success between Pakistan and India, and it averted "misadventures"
YAP
YAP
YAP
YAP
YAP.

MORE YAP

And now you are trying to convince Israel to place itself in the same corner of India, willingly.

Clearly, when you bring nuclear weapons into the equation you receive lasting peace. no doubt about it.

First off, it's not about Pakistan nukes so stick to the topic at hand. Israel has nukes and its an open secret which means that Israel is following a NUT strategy which endangers the peace of the region, they only way out is to have nuclear proliferation and for that Pakistan should play her part

 

[nirreich]

First off, it's not about Pakistan nukes so stick to the topic at hand. Israel has nukes and its an open secret which means that Israel is following a NUT strategy which endangers the peace of the region, they only way out is to have nuclear proliferation and for that Pakistan should play her part

I just gave example what would happened if, god forbid, Iran develops nuclear weapons. No stability or peace would follow.

Israel allegedly nukes do not endanger anyone. For more than 40 years of Israel's nuclear programme, Israel maintained a responsible policy, and avoided any use of its allegedly WMD in order to interfere with internal matters of other countries or to launch terror attacks on ME countries.

Iran, on the other hand, is already doing exactly that even without nukes!

Regarding Pakistan, if it openly exports nuclear weapons to ME countries, it would take enormous risks on itself and would probably considered as a pariah state, like North Korea which assisted Syria with its nuclear programme. Do you really want to eat grass and live on 200 Calories per day, like in Pyongyang?

 

[Peregrine]

I just gave example what would happened if, god forbid, Iran develops nuclear weapons. No stability or peace would follow.

Israel allegedly nukes do not endanger anyone. For more than 40 years of Israel's nuclear programme, Israel maintained a responsible policy, and avoided any use of its allegedly WMD in order to interfere with internal matters of other countries or to launch terror attacks on ME countries.

Iran, on the other hand, is already doing exactly that even without nukes!

Regarding Pakistan, if it openly exports nuclear weapons to ME countries, it would take enormous risks on itself and would probably considered as a pariah state, like North Korea which assisted Syria with its nuclear programme. Do you really want to eat grass and live on 200 Calories per day, like in Pyongyang?

Israel talks of strategic strikes not Iran. Israel has nukes so incase a war breaks out, and Izraeel is at the threshold of losing it will be tempted to use nukes which will bring a lot of destruction to the region so the better rationale is to have nuclear proliferation in the region. as for Pakistan helping, we can do that covertly like China helped us with ours or the french and Americans helped izraeel with hers.

 

[nirreich]

Israel talks of strategic strikes not Iran. Israel has nukes so incase a war breaks out, and Izraeel is at the threshold of losing it will be tempted to use nukes which will bring a lot of destruction to the region so the better rationale is to have nuclear proliferation in the region. as for Pakistan helping, we can do that covertly like China helped us with ours or the french and Americans helped izraeel with hers.

Rest assure, Israel has the superior position over its Arab neighbours and none of them will risk another round of open war. If one of them do, it would be defeated without any need of WMD capabilities.

Providing nuclear weapons to ME countries which is already are very unstable would only make matters worst. It is obvious. It would be only a matter of time until one of the lunatics in the ME would make the wrong move and use nukes. And I am not talking on a conflict with Israel - just imagine nuclear weapons in the hands of Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War or in the hands of Qadafi nowadays, or in the hands of Syria and how it would effect what is going on in Lebanon. And the worst case of all: nuclear Iran which would be able to project its power with its nuclear umbrella on the entire ME and actively to take control on the Gulf states and their oil reserves.

Regarding nuclear assistance, time have changed and what could have been done 30 years ago and more is not possible any more. Pakistan barely managed to escape in 2004 from its responsibility for helping the most dangerous regimes to develop nuclear weapons. I can assure you that next time the price would be very high. If Pakistan take the road of nuclear proliferation, I strongly recommend you to storage supply for a very difficult period in Islamabad.

 

[Peregrine]

Rest assure, Israel has the superior position over its Arab neighbours and none of them will risk another round of open war. If one of them do, it would be defeated without any need of WMD capabilities.

Providing nuclear weapons to ME countries which is already are very unstable would only make matters worst. It is obvious. It would be only a matter of time until one of the lunatics in the ME would make the wrong move and use nukes. And I am not talking on a conflict with Israel - just imagine nuclear weapons in the hands of Saddam in the Iran-Iraq War or in the hands of Qadafi nowadays, or in the hands of Syria and how it would effect what is going on in Lebanon. And the worst case of all: nuclear Iran which would be able to project its power with its nuclear umbrella on the entire ME and actively to take control on the Gulf states and their oil reserves.

Regarding nuclear assistance, time have changed and what could have been done 30 years ago and more is not possible any more. Pakistan barely managed to escape in 2004 from its responsibility for helping the most dangerous regimes to develop nuclear weapons. I can assure you that next time the price would be very high. If Pakistan take the road of nuclear proliferation, I strongly recommend you to storage supply for a very difficult period in Islamabad.

There are several ways to operate things covertly so i wont be bothered about that . We are considering the regions best interests here. Israel enjoys conventional superiority over her neighbors and considers pre-emptive strikes her legitimate right which makes Izraeel an aggressor and the best option against such a state is to go Nuclear, like Pakistan did, now all we hear from the eastern boarder is ''we can do surgical strikes'' but don't have the balls to do it

 

[nirreich]

There are several ways to operate things covertly so i wont be bothered about that . We are considering the regions best interests here. Israel enjoys conventional superiority over her neighbors and considers pre-emptive strikes her legitimate right which makes Izraeel an aggressor and the best option against such a state is to go Nuclear, like Pakistan did, now all we hear from the eastern boarder is ''we can do surgical strikes'' but don't have the balls to do it

On the contrary: The most plausible option for Israeli military strike on Iran is if it continues with its nuclear weapons development. If Iran avoids developing nuclear weapons, Israel most probably would not attack it. So the best option is not to develop nuclear weapons.

The region best interest is helping responsible and moderate forces (like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the Gulf states, Jordan) to push back the radical ones, and particularly Iran.

The AQ Khan network was a clandestine operation, but it was known to US and other Western intelligence agencies almost since its inception. I would not count on it that this time no one will know. Eventually, it would be revealed and Pakistan would pay the heavy price.

I hope Pakistan avoids any negative role in the ME and helping Israel's enemies. Pakistan definitely does not want Israel on its tail.