I am a Pakhtoon!

[All-Green]

The support to the lashkars should never have been stopped. They were acting as good front runners for their respective troubled areas. I am guessing some bad apples within the lashkars made it impossible to keep the flow of information and weapons to them...

Actually the brutal mass murders of Jirgas, Tribal Elders, Tribal Maliks etc. by the TTP ensured that Lashkars were weakened.
Thousands of such influential people have been killed by TTP so far, i think the figure is around 3000-4000.

The situation spiraled out of control due to lack of key pillars on which resistance was to be based!
TTP is much more brutal than the Lashkars, FC and Army who always want to save lives of civilians and have to show restraint and bear responsibility and anger in case of collateral!
On the other hand the monster of TTP used IEDs, individual assassinations, devastating suicide bombings to destroy everyone who opposed them and created enough fear to stop the average man from opposing them or even giving out information.
The TTP has enormous funding because it has bribed many outlaws into joining its cause...these outlaws helped TTP in targeting all their opponents.

Many influential families were either killed or are practically hijacked by the TTP with threats to life and property.
This has happened in all areas where TTP gained control, the influential people who can rally the masses were individually targeted via bombings or assassinations, many were killed as US agents or outlaws (what a sad joke considering what TTP are...)

The entire network of TTP has to be dismembered and sadly that is not in the capacity of Lashkars, they are best suited for counter insurgency support in their respective areas under supervision of Army, FC and the state leadership.

Once we regain control via Army action and break the strength of TTP then the Lashkars will be much more useful...an excellent plan needs to be in place to protect the Jirgas and the tribal leadership which has been brutally targeted by TTP.

A united action is the most critical thing but Army and FC have to come first due to the enormity of the threat!

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

Seconded but what can you do when eggs are hatched.I think Pushtuns should ally themselves with ISI instead of Talibans. (And Thousands of Pushtuns hate Talibans)

noone knows ISIs stand but everyone has allied themselves with the army noone wants the taliban everyone is just sick of the lack of army action which is now being answered

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

guys everyone took it completely out of context he didnt say he wasnt a pakistani or he wasnt proud of it he trying to show the suffering the people of nwfp are going through and instead of showing a little heart everyones a** is on fire. As a pakhtoon u dont know the shame i feel having to see old people and children leaving by the hundred of thousands into tents that the afghans lived in, its very hard to see an old man burst into tears and my anger goes toward the taliban but also in tribal areas there has been no development there is a vacumn which the taliban filled. Try guys to show a little compassion a million people are displaced we have suffered enough both the afghans and pakistani pashtoons and believe me most pashtoons are grateful we are pakistani so our brave armed forces can protect us from harm. I dont even think its directed towards pakistan he clearly wrote how much he loves his country we are u taking that away from him

 

[roadrunner]

Yup, i'm sure he wishes he never started this thread now.

Mind you, I think it's not altogether necessary. Nothing wrong with it though, I suppose.

 

[niaz]

I am not a Pushtoon/Pakhtoon but I never felt any thing but love for my friends and class mates who were Pushto speaking. I still have a very close friend (also a Yousafzai) from Mardan. However I have made certain observations about Pakhtoons during my fairly long association and business dealings.

Pukhtoon culture is to a large extent still a tribal culture. For example they follow the old tribal axiom “Me and my brother against my uncle, me and my uncle against you”, meaning that a Pakhtoon will tend to side with a Pakhtoon against a non Pukhtoon, even though he knows that non Pukhtoon is in the right. Also the Pakhtoon Waley, a term difficult to translate but implies revenge as a matter of honor among a few other things. Finally I found Pakhtoon deeply religious people.


Are all Taliban Pakhtoon or all Pakhtoon Taliban?
The answer is definitely NO. There are as many Punjabis especially from the Seraiki belt who are part of the Taliban and who are staunch Jihadis. However, Taliban started from the Pashto speaking belt and most of the Taliban commanders are Pakhtoon.

Is there any bar against a Pakhtoon living in any part of Pakistan?
No, on the other hand it will be virtually impossible for non Pushto speaker to survive in the tribal area for long.

Is there is separatist tendency (secessionist movement) in Pushto speaking area.?
The answer is yes. Not all but a significant portion of Pakhtoon population was seduced by the Pakhtoonistan slogan. This is a historical fact. A mujahid style force called Pakhtoon Zalmay was formed by the Bacha Khan followers back in the sixties.

Is there a mass genocide going on in Pakistan against the Pakhtoons?
The answer is also NO. Only in Karachi there is a sentiment against the Pakhtoons. The roots go back very far. In the mid sixties Miss Fatima Jinnah contested against Ayub Khan. After the elections, it is rumored that Gohar Ayub came down to Lalu Khet (Now Liaqat Abad) and Pathans looted indiscriminately. Again in Zia ul Haq time Pathans armed with Kalashnikovs attacked Bihari ghettos killing hundreds indiscriminately.

Is the military operation against the Pakhtoons in general?
No operation is only in certain parts of the NWFP and with the agreement of the elected government.

Why the above post by Hon Osamazaidxb?

I ask my Hon Friend. Pray tell me what is GOP to do? You have seen Taliban killing Pakhtoon tribal Maliks, destroying girl’s schools and beheading FC Jawans (mostly Pakhtoon). Why did you not resist those actions or wrote posts in condemnation?

I solemnly declare that all Pakhtoons are my brothers and I urge all to support the PM Fund for the welfare of the innocents forced to move out of their homes to safety. I also strongly condemn attack on any innocent Pakhtoon in Karachi or anywhere else in Pakistan.

If you consider yourself a Pakistani, as your post says, you need to support the PA action in Swat and other areas. Most victims of Taliban are Pakhtoons. Your post however smacks of ethnic bigotry as you are trying to blame the suffering of innocent Pakhtoons as if it is the fault of non Pakhtoons, instead of putting the blame on the likes of Sufi Mohammed and Baitullh Mahsood who are Pakhtoon themselves.

To me your reaction reflects your tribal culture. The tendency to support your own no matter what and no matter how wrong.

 

[roadrunner]

^^Everyone is a bit tribal in their own way. To say Pakhtuns are the only one is a bit too generalized. It's well known in Pakistan that you get "perks" based on family relations, and that exists especially in Punjab. If that isn't tribally based, then what is?

Another beef with your post (I'm a little busy nowadays so i havent thought much about it), is that you claim, "No, on the other hand it will be virtually impossible for non Pushto speaker to survive in the tribal area for long." - That is quite true. However, let's remember the GoP does not develop the non-Punjabi provinces to the same degree as the economic or financial hubs of Islamabad and so on. That lack of development means more lawlessness, and a greater wild west out in tribal lands. So in a way, the suggestion that a non tribal (myself included), cannot last in tribal lands is a red herring argument - "you" (not personally) created the mess in the tribal lands, and therefore you cannot be critical of them for robbing you if you step foot in their territory. You can re-word it with Swat instead of the tribal lands, if you like.

I personally believe the current deobandi strain of Islam is alien to the Pakhtuns, and wish they rid themselves of it very soon.

Also, I don't agree Pashtuns will side with Pashtuns even if they know they're wrong.Illiterate Pashtuns will. But there's plenty of Pashtuns who have sided against Pashtuns simply because they weren't in the right (you can dredge up many examples of tribal elders doing this!). The same blind ethnic bias is prevalent in the Punjab and other provinces of Pakistan amongst the illiterate groups. It's very disingenuous to claim it's a Pakhtun specific trait.

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

I am not a Pushtoon/Pakhtoon but I never felt any thing but love for my friends and class mates who were Pushto speaking. I still have a very close friend (also a Yousafzai) from Mardan. However I have made certain observations about Pakhtoons during my fairly long association and business dealings.

Pukhtoon culture is to a large extent still a tribal culture. For example they follow the old tribal axiom “Me and my brother against my uncle, me and my uncle against you”, meaning that a Pakhtoon will tend to side with a Pakhtoon against a non Pukhtoon, even though he knows that non Pukhtoon is in the right. Also the Pakhtoon Waley, a term difficult to translate but implies revenge as a matter of honor among a few other things. Finally I found Pakhtoon deeply religious people.


Are all Taliban Pakhtoon or all Pakhtoon Taliban?
The answer is definitely NO. There are as many Punjabis especially from the Seraiki belt who are part of the Taliban and who are staunch Jihadis. However, Taliban started from the Pashto speaking belt and most of the Taliban commanders are Pakhtoon.

Is there any bar against a Pakhtoon living in any part of Pakistan?
No, on the other hand it will be virtually impossible for non Pushto speaker to survive in the tribal area for long.

Is there is separatist tendency (secessionist movement) in Pushto speaking area.?
The answer is yes. Not all but a significant portion of Pakhtoon population was seduced by the Pakhtoonistan slogan. This is a historical fact. A mujahid style force called Pakhtoon Zalmay was formed by the Bacha Khan followers back in the sixties.

Is there a mass genocide going on in Pakistan against the Pakhtoons?
The answer is also NO. Only in Karachi there is a sentiment against the Pakhtoons. The roots go back very far. In the mid sixties Miss Fatima Jinnah contested against Ayub Khan. After the elections, it is rumored that Gohar Ayub came down to Lalu Khet (Now Liaqat Abad) and Pathans looted indiscriminately. Again in Zia ul Haq time Pathans armed with Kalashnikovs attacked Bihari ghettos killing hundreds indiscriminately.

Is the military operation against the Pakhtoons in general?
No operation is only in certain parts of the NWFP and with the agreement of the elected government.

Why the above post by Hon Osamazaidxb?

I ask my Hon Friend. Pray tell me what is GOP to do? You have seen Taliban killing Pakhtoon tribal Maliks, destroying girl’s schools and beheading FC Jawans (mostly Pakhtoon). Why did you not resist those actions or wrote posts in condemnation?

I solemnly declare that all Pakhtoons are my brothers and I urge all to support the PM Fund for the welfare of the innocents forced to move out of their homes to safety. I also strongly condemn attack on any innocent Pakhtoon in Karachi or anywhere else in Pakistan.

If you consider yourself a Pakistani, as your post says, you need to support the PA action in Swat and other areas. Most victims of Taliban are Pakhtoons. Your post however smacks of ethnic bigotry as you are trying to blame the suffering of innocent Pakhtoons as if it is the fault of non Pakhtoons, instead of putting the blame on the likes of Sufi Mohammed and Baitullh Mahsood who are Pakhtoon themselves.

To me your reaction reflects your tribal culture. The tendency to support your own no matter what and no matter how wrong.

theres a lot of generalisation in your arguement
pashtoons side with pashtoons this is a generalisation and its insultiing implying even if a pashtoons behaviour is immoral and wrong it will be suppourted by fellow pashtoons why dont u just use common sense for me personally if a pashtoon does something wrong i feel shame and i would be the first to let him no its not acceptable however i understand also wat ur saying but it could happen in any race it depends on the person if the person is not a good and rational human being then he will be bias and unjust ur kinda implying most pashtuns are like that.

I personally have to agree that for the most part pashtuns are religious and its something i dont suppourt i will never ever suppourt sharia in pakistan because we cannot implement it properly and i hate how much jihad has ruined our region while the arabs sit and take orders from america and tell us what to do

again now i come to your pukhtoonistan slogan believe me the only reason it went so far is because of the lack of development in the frontier and if u really know pashtoons u no that they hate the persian influence on pashtoon afghans and any pashtoonistan will be afghanistans pashtoons with pakistans pashtoons and so it wont happen.If u do some research u would no that bacha khan was a very peaceful man he wanted to disarm the population he rejected the AK culture he wanted education and he never backed the mujahideen he was only unhappy at the lack of development and the ISIs work with the mujahideen.

i think the mass genocide is a result of the taliban not pakistan or the army or even america its all because of the taliban everyone is suppourted our brave army and in swat the residents are accompanying the military to show them where the taliban areas are

brother we pashtuns reject the taliban we dont consider them pashtuns they are a stain on our proud culture on our secular culture please understand that our tribal elders were massacred by these arab appeasers

there are two types on pashtoons in pakistan ones that are fundamentalists and are hated by the general pashtoon population and i hope also by the pakistani population these pashtuns are delusional and believe that we should live like cavemen they fully suppourt the taliban and hate pashtoonwali which is traditionally secular.
the second is the patriotic pakistani and proud pashtoon he is nationalistic but this is good for pakistan because they demand the betterment of our country not separation they just want to live in peace they fully suppourt the pak govt and more so the army as u can see no pashtoon party member has raised a vioce against army operation they fully suppourt it and whats more no people from swat have sided with the taliban. this type is 99 percent of the population who are normal human beings like everyone else and just want normal lives they consider themselves proud citizens of pakistan

 

[zubair723]

Whats 'FUNDAMENTALISM'?
What's DEOBANDISM? Can someone please brief info , not speculations.

 

[niaz]

theres a lot of generalisation in your arguement
pashtoons side with pashtoons this is a generalisation and its insultiing implying even if a pashtoons behaviour is immoral and wrong it will be suppourted by fellow pashtoons why dont u just use common sense for me personally if a pashtoon does something wrong i feel shame and i would be the first to let him no its not acceptable however i understand also wat ur saying but it could happen in any race it depends on the person if the person is not a good and rational human being then he will be bias and unjust ur kinda implying most pashtuns are like that.

I personally have to agree that for the most part pashtuns are religious and its something i dont suppourt i will never ever suppourt sharia in pakistan because we cannot implement it properly and i hate how much jihad has ruined our region while the arabs sit and take orders from america and tell us what to do

again now i come to your pukhtoonistan slogan believe me the only reason it went so far is because of the lack of development in the frontier and if u really know pashtoons u no that they hate the persian influence on pashtoon afghans and any pashtoonistan will be afghanistans pashtoons with pakistans pashtoons and so it wont happen.If u do some research u would no that bacha khan was a very peaceful man he wanted to disarm the population he rejected the AK culture he wanted education and he never backed the mujahideen he was only unhappy at the lack of development and the ISIs work with the mujahideen.

i think the mass genocide is a result of the taliban not pakistan or the army or even america its all because of the taliban everyone is suppourted our brave army and in swat the residents are accompanying the military to show them where the taliban areas are

brother we pashtuns reject the taliban we dont consider them pashtuns they are a stain on our proud culture on our secular culture please understand that our tribal elders were massacred by these arab appeasers

there are two types on pashtoons in pakistan ones that are fundamentalists and are hated by the general pashtoon population and i hope also by the pakistani population these pashtuns are delusional and believe that we should live like cavemen they fully suppourt the taliban and hate pashtoonwali which is traditionally secular.
the second is the patriotic pakistani and proud pashtoon he is nationalistic but this is good for pakistan because they demand the betterment of our country not separation they just want to live in peace they fully suppourt the pak govt and more so the army as u can see no pashtoon party member has raised a vioce against army operation they fully suppourt it and whats more no people from swat have sided with the taliban. this type is 99 percent of the population who are normal human beings like everyone else and just want normal lives they consider themselves proud citizens of pakistan

Hon rokhanyousafzai,

I admit lot of generalization in my post. However I urge you to read it in the context of the reply of the following post.

Quote

I AM A PAHTOON"

kill me and call it "A MISTAKE"

Imprison me and call it "SECURITY MEASURE"

Exile my people and masses and call it "PROGRESS"

Declare my leaders as the enemy of our country and call it "GUILTY OF TREASON"

Rob my rights, invade my land, declare me as terrorist and call it "DEVELOPMENT"

But LISTEN..!!

Still i m pakhtoon and i will be Pakhtoon 4ever..I will be pakhtoon for Pakistan, not for the politicians, not for the army, not for the Indians, not for the US, not for the Europe and not for the others...Only for PAKISTAN..!!!!!

I will say right for the right and wrong for the wrong..!!

UNDEFEATED THE PAKHTOON..!!

Unquote.

You have correctly pointed out that current troubles are due to Taliban. Hon friend however completely ignored Taliban; instead he insinuated that non Pakhtoons such as me are killing, imprisoning, forcibly sending Pakhtoons into exile and robbing them of their rights simply because they are Pakhtoons!

Only place where Pakhtoon have been known to be targeted was in Karachi which I have mentioned but no where else.

My reply should be seen as retort to this baseless accusation. You would not refuse me the right to defend myself when I am wrongfully accused!

My apologoies if I have misinterpreted this post by Hon osamaziadxb.

 

[forcetrip]

Actually the brutal mass murders of Jirgas, Tribal Elders, Tribal Maliks etc. by the TTP ensured that Lashkars were weakened.
Thousands of such influential people have been killed by TTP so far, i think the figure is around 3000-4000.

A united action is the most critical thing but Army and FC have to come first due to the enormity of the threat!

We need to address these in order to succeed militarily. When people rise against them they are subdued. They are gathering strength by indoctrination and or paying people off to either provide information or grunt work... How much are they paying that a fellow Pakhtun disregards his duty to protect his fellow brother? What religion is he being fed when he is told that it is correct that the people that live around them need to follow what he says or they will be persecuted? How is this so called rag tag band of thugs paying more than a government? ..

The mess we see today is due to us neglecting the northern parts of our country for so long .. and when they rose to fight against these infiltrators they were again left to fend for themselves.. mistakes are being made even today .. the solution is to redeploy the lashkars with full government backing .. I am sure the TTP has their elders which could be assassinated as well .. Use the same tactics they use .. From what I see is that they have been surprisingly successful.

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

Hon rokhanyousafzai,

I admit lot of generalization in my post. However I urge you to read it in the context of the reply of the following post.

Quote

I AM A PAHTOON"

kill me and call it "A MISTAKE"

Imprison me and call it "SECURITY MEASURE"

Exile my people and masses and call it "PROGRESS"

Declare my leaders as the enemy of our country and call it "GUILTY OF TREASON"

Rob my rights, invade my land, declare me as terrorist and call it "DEVELOPMENT"

But LISTEN..!!

Still i m pakhtoon and i will be Pakhtoon 4ever..I will be pakhtoon for Pakistan, not for the politicians, not for the army, not for the Indians, not for the US, not for the Europe and not for the others...Only for PAKISTAN..!!!!!

I will say right for the right and wrong for the wrong..!!

UNDEFEATED THE PAKHTOON..!!

Unquote.

You have correctly pointed out that current troubles are due to Taliban. Hon friend however completely ignored Taliban; instead he insinuated that non Pakhtoons such as me are killing, imprisoning, forcibly sending Pakhtoons into exile and robbing them of their rights simply because they are Pakhtoons!

Only place where Pakhtoon have been known to be targeted was in Karachi which I have mentioned but no where else.

My reply should be seen as retort to this baseless accusation. You would not refuse me the right to defend myself when I am wrongfully accused!

My apologoies if I have misinterpreted this post by Hon osamaziadxb.

noones accusing anyone we are all brothers here i think its just to show how cheap pashtoon blood has become its nothing against pakistan or the army

 

[osamaziadxb]

noones accusing anyone we are all brothers here i think its just to show how cheap pashtoon blood has become its nothing against pakistan or the army

This is what i m shouting from the post 1..
But who listened

 

[Zob]

look my friend osmanzia....no one blames PAKHTOONs for anything except the people of karachi....who should actually be blaimg the BHAI.....however, pakhtoons are one of the 4 brothers living inside pakistan.

Passionate+Patriotic= PAKHTOON for me and PAKTHOONS are loved by everyone!!! Please don’t think you are mistreated by anyone except for PEOPLE IN KARACHI….

 

[All-Green]

We are all responsible for the present mess. As someone said "EVIL IS SUCESSFUL WHEN THE FEW GOOD MEN CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING". Thats what has happened we have always chose to do nothing & have tried to ignore the problem or expects outsiders to solve it instead. In short we have always opted for easy way out. It bleeds at least my heart to see who is dying & getting killed . Commom folks , whether they are our young army officers or jawans or the rebels who are fighting them. I would love to see these REHMAN MALIKS & there children or the so called parasite elite go & fight on the front. They are all busy wheeling & dealing & filling there pockets. And on top it angers me that by all this we are providing our enemies 'merry moments' because we are ourselves doing their tasks.
Solutions will only become visible when we will stop taking dictations from outsiders & start living on our own and as per ou own identity & our own religion. The choice is simple --One day of a LION as a free man or Hundred days of Jackal. Thats what we have to decide first.

Zubair,

I suggest you look at all my posts again...i spent a lot of time debating with you.


I quoted a specific clause of the pact of Hudaibia just to let you know that despite its disadvantage to the Muslims it bought them time to gain strength which they did through their determination.

Acumen and strategic brilliance is what i hope and wish for.

I just want Pakistan to focus inwards for 10-20 years and then methodically detach itself from any overpowering influence.
We cannot afford Taliban like mentality if we want to progress and when we overcome the internal weaknesses then we shall truly become great.

Why not a hundred days as the Lion?

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

look my friend osmanzia....no one blames PAKHTOONs for anything except the people of karachi....who should actually be blaimg the BHAI.....however, pakhtoons are one of the 4 brothers living inside pakistan.

Passionate+Patriotic= PAKHTOON for me and PAKTHOONS are loved by everyone!!! Please don’t think you are mistreated by anyone except for PEOPLE IN KARACHI….

thank you brother this is what he has been trying to say we pashtoons love our country and our army and we dont have anything against people of karachi only against criminal elements of MQM who in my opinion dont represent mohajir people just like taliban dont represent pashtoon this thread has been misinterpreted