How Pakistanis view others but do not get the same respect and dignity

[VCheng]

It is considered normal behaviour for our police to be corrupt and inept. We don't agree with it, but it's normal.

I am quite sure you do not understand the implications of what you just said above.

Once you have accepted corruption and ineptitude as normal, the battle is already lost.

 

[313ghazi]

I am quite sure you do not understand the implications of what you just said above.

Once you have accepted corruption and ineptitude as normal, the battle is already lost.

No - that's a misinterpretation. Pot holed roads are normal in Pakistan, as is low quality health care, doesn't mean it's an acceptable standard, it just means it's the standard that is commonly present.

 

[VCheng]

No - that's a misinterpretation. Pot holed roads are normal in Pakistan, as is low quality health care, doesn't mean it's an acceptable standard, it just means it's the standard that is commonly present.

With those "standards", how can you advocate doing the following to gain respect?

True respect is earnt. If you want people to respect you, then you must demand it. You can only demand it through strength. Strength of morality, of character, physical strength, economic strength, military strength, strength through unity, strength through knowledge. You must excel in all these fields to demand respect. Focus on improving those things, not on others.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

So how does one cure this complex as you have described it?

The way I see it, and you might not agree, but there are two ways of curing this complex.

One let's invade India, kill or convert Hindus until they become a small minority in the sub-continent. Because for me one of the biggest reason for this complex is wish of Muslim of Sub-continent in general and Pakistan in particular to keep their identity as a separate people. Think about it, if the Coptics were still in majority in Egypt or if the Egypt had a strong Coptic country as its neighbor and rival with a bitter history , do you think the Muslim Egyptians would be this proud of their shared heritage? I think they won't be.

But it is not only preposterous to think about such an eventuality, but it is also impossible to achieve. If we were not able to achieve it during the hundreds of years of rule over Hindus, it is not possible now. Of course in a 100 or 200 year from now Muslim might be in majority in Sub-Continent but that is another story.

Second way is to make peace with India, not only peace but an alliance and friendship that will put US-UK or US-Canada relationship to shame. Once our people and establishment become friendly towards Hindu-majority India, we will not need this urge to keep ourselves distanced from our shared heritage.

This is not something that can be archived either. First it does not only depend upon us but also the Indians to achieve such a relationship. And they won't agree to it until we accept them as big brother in the region, the regional hegemon and that is not something that is acceptable to us (myself included).

Third and the only possible solution is to change the bloody curriculum and start teaching our kids about MehrGarh, the 9000 year old civilization. Tell them about Harapa and Mohinjodaro, not the casual manner that we do right now but in detail and show to them why it was unique and how well planned and managed cities they were as compared to their contemporaries in say golden crescent.

Tell them about Takshila university of antiquity, and how it was a center of excellence when most of human race was still living in caves and tents. Tell them how valiantly people of this region fought against invading Macedonians, make people like Porus of Jehlum their hero, tell them how Alexander nearly died while trying to conquer Multan.

For Punjabis for example, portray Dhulla Bhatti as a freedom fighter against Mughals, he was pretty much the Khushal Khan Khattak of Punjabis but how many Punjabis actually know his history. And yes make Khushal khan khattak part of the curriculum too.

If the kids keep on listening only about how awesome bin Qasim or Ghaznavi were, they will keep idealizing them. Hence they won't be able to relate to their own land and always look outwards for a sense of belonging.

 

[313ghazi]

With those "standards", how can you advocate doing the following to gain respect?

You need to not jump the gun and actually read what i wrote, Look at it again bro.

No - that's a misinterpretation. Pot holed roads are normal in Pakistan, as is low quality health care, doesn't mean it's an acceptable standard, it just means it's the standard that is commonly present.

I am pointing out what is the current state, perhaps the colloquial use of the word standard could imply that is an accepted state (albeit a lowly one), but that was not my intention.

We live in a world where news from everywhere is available to everyone. The USA is the most powerful nation on earth and people assume it to be the most advanced nation too, some even consider it the standard by which to measure success. When you see third world policing happen there, or major homelessness in the worlds wealthist nation - it's add odds with our view of the USA and their society, hence it makes it newsworthy.

A corrupt Pakistani police officer is no surprise - frankly the reverse is what is newsworthy.

The way I see it, and you might not agree, but there are two ways of curing this complex.

One let's invade India, kill or convert Hindus until they become a small minority in the sub-continent. Because for me one of the biggest reason for this complex is wish of Muslim of Sub-continent in general and Pakistan in particular to keep their identity as a separate people. Think about it, if the Coptics were still in majority in Egypt or if the Egypt had a strong Coptic country as its neighbor and rival with a bitter history , do you think the Muslim Egyptians would be this proud of their shared heritage? I think they won't be.

What a terrible thing to say. You think you will find self worth in the murder of other people? What is wrong with you?

Third and the only possible solution is to change the bloody curriculum and start teaching our kids about MehrGarh, the 9000 year old civilization. Tell them about Harapa and Mohinjodaro, not the casual manner that we do right now but in detail and show to them why it was unique and how well planned and managed cities they were as compared to their contemporaries in say golden crescent.

Tell them about Takshila university of antiquity, and how it was a center of excellence when most of human race was still living in caves and tents. Tell them how valiantly people of this region fought against invading Macedonians, make people like Porus of Jehlum their hero, tell them how Alexander nearly died while trying to conquer Multan.

For Punjabis for example, portray Dhulla Bhatti as a freedom fighter against Mughals, he was pretty much the Khushal Khan Khattak of Punjabis but how many Punjabis actually know his history. And yes make Khushal khan khattak part of the curriculum too.

If the kids keep on listening only about how awesome bin Qasim or Ghaznavi were, they will keep idealizing them. Hence they won't be able to relate to their own land and always look outwards for a sense of belonging.

This bit I can agree with. I hated history at school in the UK because it was taught with a narrative. It was never presented as a set of events, but always as a story - trying to justify the British role in history. History should be taught objectively, from different perspectives through multiple sources to make it something people can engage with. You can learn more though history than just a series of dates and events.

 

[Menace2Society]

Pakistanis need to understand there are people in the world that don't want you to exist, hate what you are and will look to harm you at every opportunity. They will belittle your successes and offer you crocodile tears when you suffer. It doesn't matter how nice you are they will never change. This is the way it is.

So stop trying to appease others, tell them to f**k off to their face, become strong and prosperous then dominate them. This is the road you must take.

Nobody likes a militarily strong Muslim country, just ask Iran and Turkey, their character is questioned daily so I don't understand why these countries don't do more to collaborate with each other and put any differences aside for the greater good.

To summize Indians and Americans are not your friends, they are everything which I have described above so tell them to f**k off permanently because unless you dominate them their ideology which is anti Pakistani, will never change.

Build connections and collaborate with nations with good intentions and good things will happen.

 

[VCheng]

For Punjabis for example, portray Dhulla Bhatti as a freedom fighter against Mughals, he was pretty much the Khushal Khan Khattak of Punjabis but how many Punjabis actually know his history. And yes make Khushal khan khattak part of the curriculum too.

If the kids keep on listening only about how awesome bin Qasim or Ghaznavi were, they will keep idealizing them. Hence they won't be able to relate to their own land and always look outwards for a sense of belonging.

Good idea, but it will take a lot more than historical stories to change what you seek to change, let me just say that.

 

[Shogun]

I disagree. It is considered normal behaviour for our police to be corrupt and inept. We don't agree with it, but it's normal. When police in the USA shoot innocent people dead in cold blood, it's considered an exceptional event, hence making it newsworthy, hence generating discussion.


He is a begharat. He eats from their hand - what can you expect from him?



Weak people feel the need to have an arrogant front, or to be seen as aggressive. Strong people don't need a front - we act in a decent matter, give respect and react only if the appropiate respect is not returned.

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Believe it or not but by being respectful, considerate and Islam focused the people of Pakistan are BETTER than the other people. Those who put nation or race or tribe ahead of the way of Allah have benefited nothing. They are still slaves.

True respect is earnt. If you want people to respect you, then you must demand it. You can only demand it through strength. Strength of morality, of character, physical strength, economic strength, military strength, strength through unity, strength through knowledge. You must excel in all these fields to demand respect. Focus on improving those things, not on others.

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) made us an ummah, he did not tell us to put anything ahead of the cause of Allah. The gulf Arabs have wealth - they are slaves at the feet of the Americans. The Arabs of the levant had national pride and baathism - they have been destroyed and humiliated. The Turks have only seen glory when their cause was aligned with the cause of Allah. Their downfall was not because they alligned themselves with the cause of Allah, but because their leaders failed to face up to the challenges of the shift in economic and military power brought about by imperialism. The Afghans focus on tribe and ethnicity - what dignity do they have today? The Muslims of India were Indian first, today they are asked to do pooja to prove their indian-ness.

We are humilated only because we run away from the cause of Allah and the way of Allah. We don't distinguish between haram and halal when selecting our leaders and we wonder why our nation is not blessed.

Your enemies identify you as Muslim before they identify your nationality.
Your enemies identify you as Pakistani before they identify your ethnicity.
Your enemies only recognise your ethnicity or your sect or your religion, or your nationality to seperate you and divide you.

As a observer from the outside I agree with what you have said. Furthermore I would add that the Muslims of Pakistan are ahead of most Muslims in the world, if what is said is true about them caring for other Muslims. That is how Muslims should behave.

Speaking honestly as a Arab I feel that the Pakistani or Indian Muslim is far more closer to me than say a Jordanian or Egyptian Christian. I would trust Faith over kinship any day ( though most Christian Arabs are not ethnic ones). That is what being a Muslim is in my view, as the Prophet pbuh said:

الْمُؤْمِنُ لِلْمُؤْمِنِ كَالْبُنْيَانِ الْمَرْصُوصِ؛ يَشُدُّ بَعْضَهُ بَعْضًا

A believer is for a believer as a structure, each supporting the other.

Although most Muslims don't act so in modern times, if Pakistan does, it deserves more credit and praise, not asked to change because others are not the same.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Doesn't matter if its corrupt or not. So is ours. We need to strengthen them to the point till they can atleadt curb Taliban influence and deal with their border properly.

There are no "brother countries". Ironically trying to help every single Muslim country has done nothing but backfire.



Our politicians don't spread religious hate ? Maryam safdar (possible next PM) literally gives statements against minorities every other week. Her husband Cap Safdar , the man who literally commended qadri (an extremist murderer) while standing in the national assembly.

Are you deaf, dumb or both ?

where did Captain Safdar of Maryam Nawaz kill minorities in thousands? Last time I checked they only killed Muslims I Lahore model town but I never saw you speaking about it guess who is dumb and Deaf?Stop this randi rona and do something constructive for the country & your community(Assuming you are Qadiyani in denial)

 

[Fledgingwings]

100% Agreed !

 

[Azadkashmir]

Pakistanis have plenty of flaws.

My concern is this, a british pak walks through airport is attacked by d ic khead security for bribes.
If they don't pay then all security get together and start to harrass them and then make them late.
If gora goes through then they wont even look their way and matter of fact start to offer them carry thier bags. The best advantage a foreigner pak brings with them is the understanding of self pride and cares for his own people. He/she has had the taste of love with sticks and stones from right wing groups. It is rare to get british pak kissing a ss maybe some dik head uncle or twisted liberal aunties.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Look who is talking??
Your nation is called ISLAMIC Republic of Pakistan.
India is not HINDU Republic of India.

Your constitution discriminates against people based on faith and does not give equal rights to the citizens.
Minorities are barred from occupying top positions and minorities in your country is shrinking.

On the other hand, the minorities in India enjoy privileges and their numbers are growing. Constitutionally they enjoy equal rights and are not barred from occupying top constitutional positions.

Stop your bull shit.

our government doesn't kill them either
Pakistani equivalent of BJP is Jamat e Islami in Pakistan but they have around a dozen seats in NA while BJP won clear majority in India
The Ghar wapsi movement is in Full swing in India and full support of BJP government the speeches of BJP leaders are on record promoting violence against Muslims

 

[313ghazi]

As a observer from the outside I agree with what you have said. Furthermore I would add that the Muslims of Pakistan are ahead of most Muslims in the world, if what is said is true about them caring for other Muslims. That is how Muslims should behave.

Speaking honestly as a Arab I feel that the Pakistani or Indian Muslim is far more closer to me than say a Jordanian or Egyptian Christian. I would trust Faith over kinship any day ( though most Christian Arabs are not ethnic ones). That is what being a Muslim is in my view, as the Prophet pbuh said:

الْمُؤْمِنُ لِلْمُؤْمِنِ كَالْبُنْيَانِ الْمَرْصُوصِ؛ يَشُدُّ بَعْضَهُ بَعْضًا

A believer is for a believer as a structure, each supporting the other.

Although most Muslims don't act so in modern times, if Pakistan does, it deserves more credit and praise, not asked to change because others are not the same.

Brother, I know for a fact there are hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide that see the world, as Muslims should see it. Unfortunately leaders are the ones holding us ALL back, Pakistani or otherwise.

The Muslim identity is strong in Pakistan through the blessing of circumstance. When our nation was created it was created from the remnants of Multiple kingdoms who had all been defeated and occupied by the British empire. It was an inheritor of Muslim indentity partly because the British used religion to divide the people of "British India" but making them compete against each other. They did this based on any divide they could find - religion, caste, tribe, ethnicity etc. This led to many Muslims indentifying themselves as a bloc through circumstances. When we demanded a nation - it was a nation for Muslims.

The next twist of fate was the land we were allocated. Pakistan envisaged to be part of a much larger state spanning across India based on territories were Muslims were the majority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinia The British did not allocate us this land and we ended up with two bits, East and West. The East was formed of mainly 1 ethnicity, whereas the west comprised of many ethnicities. The east formed a nation called Bangladesh on the basis of that majority ethnicity, but the west has remained Pakistan because despite Punjabi's being the largest ethnicity, they are not overwhelming in terms of numbers so an ethnic-centric state is not possible.

In fact the last time in history where you see a state with similar borders to modern Pakistan is thousands of years ago during the indus valley civilisation.

What this has meant is that Pakistan, by hook or by crook has been able to keep it's identity based on religion. Our history, our ethnicities, our cultures are all something we are proud of, but not something that overwhelms our identity as Muslims.

Many brothers see other nations (western nations especially) become successful and attribute it on part to their stronger national identities (based on ethnicities or boundaries formed hundreds of years ago). I think it plays a part but their success is more down to hardwork than anything else.

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

where did Captain Safdar of Maryam Nawaz kill minorities in thousands? Last time I checked they only killed Muslims I Lahore model town but I never saw you speaking about it guess who is dumb and Deaf?Stopwatch this randi rona and do something constructive for the country & your community(Assuming you are Qadiyani in denial)

Its funny you would mention qadiyanis because one of those guys is the reason our country hasn't been wiped off the earth yet.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Its funny you would mention qadiyanis because one of those guys is the reason our country hasn't been wiped off the earth yet.

how about reading a book or two? I would suggest Profiles of Intelligence - Syed Ahmed Irshad Tirmazi
learning is always better than doing useless Randi rona

Maryam safdar (possible next PM) literally gives statements against minorities every other week.

I want links to all three anti-minority statements of maryum Nawaz she gave in three weeks of this month
if you fail to give you will apologize