How many dollars we need to pay for "affordable transport (lexus) for all"

[FaujHistorian]

In another thread my fellow poster listed the following desires

When we talk about change, we don't expect that in few years time Pakistan should transform into USA. By change, we simply mean:

• justice for all
• health and education for all
• healthy food and clean water for all
• equal opportunities to progress in the life for all
• affordable electricity, and gas for all
• affordable transport for all

.

This list off course exhibits powerful and emotional feelings. It reminds of my uni hostel days. When slogans like

-- Chicken biryani every night
-- Mutton Korma every lunch time
-- Nihari and halwa poori (paratha and bakra gosht) every morning


Obviously the "munshi" aka cook could not deliver these things every day.

Why?

No one was willing to pay for it.

So in the end out of our frustration, we declared our Munshi and his trainee son as the most corrupt cooks in the history of our hostel.

And soon

Went back to eating daal and subzi a few days a week still cursing still sniping at the poor munshi.

Seriously! How much do Pakistan needs in dollars every year to pay for your item #2 onwards?

for 200 million people in Pakistan, is it

A) $2 billions a year
B) $20 billions a year
C) $200 billions a year
D) $2000 billions a year
E) $20000 billions a year
F) All of the above

Same question from good thinkers like @Chak Bamu @Syed.Ali.Haider, @SBD-3, @Jungibaaz

 

[VCheng]

Seriously! How much do Pakistan needs in dollars every year to pay for your item #2 onwards?
for 200 million people in Pakistan, is it
A) $2 billions a year
B) $20 billions a year
C) $200 billions a year
D) $2000 billions a year
E) $20000 billions a year
F) All of the above

The money is only the start. The real challenges come from mismanagement and maladministration of such large scale and sustained social development projects even when they are adequately funded.

A bucket with no bottom will never hold much, no matter how much Perrier mineral water or aab-e-Zam-Zam is poured into it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The money is only the start. The real challenges come from mismanagement and maladministration of such large scale and sustained social development projects even when they are adequately funded.

A bucket with no bottom will never hold much, no matter how much Perrier mineral water or aab-e-Zam-Zam is poured into it.

Still.

Just an estimate. How much do you think we need. From A-E please.

 

[VCheng]

Still.

Just an estimate. How much do you think we need. From A-E please.

I would suggest (C) is about right, if sustained year after year, for at least 10 years, probably more. Of course, assuming that these amounts are managed properly.

 

[syedali73]

@FaujHistorian Making fun of me is not going to raise your intellectual stature. This suggests to me that you have no clue of the problems of the common Pakistanis and instead of paying sympathetic attention, you are hell bent on making mockery of them. That is exactly what the thieves sitting in the present parliament are doing. This is not good, not good at all. Pakistanis appear to have an endless threshold for insult and injustice, but longer it takes to erupt, most destructive it becomes. This is the same attitude of "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche i.e. Let them eat cake", which led to the French revolution, and I am convinced in-spite of endless inaptness of the Pakistani public, it is bound ho happen, in a year, ten years, or fifty years. This rotten up system is bound to change, and through a bloody revolution, not through the endless and fruitless dynasty change exercise.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Still.

Just an estimate. How much do you think we need. From A-E please.

We need working systems. Whatever we have should be enough for us. When dollars come, bureaucrats and politicians start salivating. If there is some self-control from the leadership, even then people assume the worst.

I think it is more related to internal administration and taxation structure rather than a matter or foreign exchange.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistanis appear to have an endless threshold for insult and injustice, but longer it takes to erupt, most destructive it becomes.

Most destructive for whom? If people erupt in anger, guess who will get hurt the most?

 

[syedali73]

Most destructive for whom? If people erupt in anger, guess who will get hurt the most?

People have not much to loose. Their liveliness has already been snatched away by the ruling elite.

 

[VCheng]

People have not much to loose. Their liveliness has already been snatched away by the ruling elite.

There is always the ultimate thing to lose - their very lives.

 

[Dubious]

Most destructive for whom? If people erupt in anger, guess who will get hurt the most?

Uncleee thora zehaan aap bhi lagaya kerain...always out fishing

 

[VCheng]

Uncleee thora zehaan aap bhi lagaya kerain...always out fishing

The answer to my question is pretty obvious.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Most of the replies on this thread show that some of the highly educated elite of Pakistan have not done any cost-benefit analysis.



Level of ignorance is such that no one is even willing to take a guess.

@FaujHistorian Making fun of me is not going to raise your intellectual stature. This suggests to me that you have no clue of the problems of the common Pakistanis and instead of paying sympathetic attention, you are hell bent on making mockery of them. That is exactly what the thieves sitting in the present parliament are doing. This is not good, not good at all. Pakistanis appear to have an endless threshold for insult and injustice, but longer it takes to erupt, most destructive it becomes. This is the same attitude of "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche i.e. Let them eat cake", which led to the French revolution, and I am convinced in-spite of endless inaptness of the Pakistani public, it is bound ho happen, in a year, ten years, or fifty years. This rotten up system is bound to change, and through a bloody revolution, not through the endless and fruitless dynasty change exercise.

If you have been around, you would know that no one is making fun of you.

It is a serious effort.

Sadly you do not want to put any thought whatsoever to figure out the cost of the services you want to be delivered.

Truly sad.

 

[illusion8]

Most of the replies on this thread show that some of the highly educated elite of Pakistan have not done any cost-benefit analysis.



Level of ignorance is such that no one is even willing to take a guess.



If you have been around, you would know that no one is making fun of you.

It is a serious effort.

Sadly you do not want to put any thought whatsoever to figure out the cost of the services you want to be delivered.

Truly sad.

Sorry to butt in, but this got me thinking a bit.

Let's assume that the state is capable enough to afford 20 billion a year for all the listed services - but does that improve living?

Japanese, westerners, Chinese etc are some of the most hard working people on earth. They strive for excellence - atleast most do, while others from their same communities feed on other's largesse. But is that what one would want - a good life for its citizens with out the effort.

A case in point is the state of Tamil Nadu in India- this is purely hearsay and maybe Tamil members here would correct me if I am wrong.

Tamil Nadu politics is between two parties AIADMK and DMK, one is ruled with a iron hand by Jayalalitha and the other bt the octagenerian politician Karunanidhi. Both compete against each other to give ever increasing sops to the poor of Tamil Nadu.


The items on offer are-

free education for the girl child.
free marriage with gold ornaments and expense paid.
subsidized vehicles for students.
Subsidized school books - often free.
plenty of scholarships.
Free laptops, free tv, free household appliances.
fixed daily wages.
subsidized fuel - one of the lowest in India
highly subsidized electricity.
almost free rice - Rs.2 per kg.
rs.5 breakfast.
Subsidized transport
Subsidized medical treatment.
Subsidized alcohol

and probably many more, these sops are vote bank tactics that bring in votes to either one of the two parties without a third option.

but what it has also done is, it has made many people in Tamil Nadu lazy. A person can work just a couple of days a month and still will be able to feed his family for the entire month.


I would prefer a society that works really hard and smart to gain better living rather than avail sops to keep a party in power and vote them back again and again.

 

[FaujHistorian]

........
Let's assume that the state is capable enough to afford 20 billion a year for all the listed services -

Japanese, westerners, Chinese etc are some of the most hard working people on earth.

$20 billion a year is your estimate for providing all the services as demanded by @syedali73?

Japan is a welfare state. It too provides many of the services demanded by @syedali73?

Do you know the cost of welfare in Japan per year for the last 5-6 years?
same question for @Chak Bamu sahib

Just curious.

Thank you

p.s. didn't touch your point on people getting lazy as I want to focus on cost for the moment.

 

[Chak Bamu]

$20 billion a year is your estimate for providing all the services as demanded by @syedali73?

Japan is a welfare state. It too provides many of the services demanded by @syedali73?

Do you know the cost of welfare in Japan per year for the last 5-6 years?
same question for @Chak Bamu sahib

Just curious.

Thank you

p.s. didn't touch your point on people getting lazy as I want to focus on cost for the moment.

Forget it sir. There is so much negativity and pessimism that if the government says they want to launch a project, people start calculating the money that would be embezzled. This way nobody in Pakistan should ever do anything whatsoever, because someone somewhere might benefit. Youthias are saying that they are glad Chinese President shall not be coming to Pakistan. Total Mental cases.