How come Iran never modernized like Japan in the 19th century?

[Abii]

I agree with you. No need to look at the past; we have to look at the future.

I agree 100% with this statement, but let's not beat around the bush when it comes to the Qajars and specially that closet homo Naseredin. The modern day mullah brand was basically a Qajar invention and for that alone I hate them. I wish that was the only fault these fuckers had.

 

[Surenas]

I agree 100% with this statement, but let's not beat around the bush when it comes to the Qajars and specially that closet homo Naseredin. The modern day mullah brand was basically a Qajar invention and for that alone I hate them. I wish that was the only fault these fuckers had.

The Qajar Dynasty is indeed the worst dynasty in Iran's history. Those idiots even sold Iranian oil for a nickel and a dime.

 

[Type 052D]

The Qajar Dynasty is indeed the worst dynasty in Iran's history. Those idiots even sold Iranian oil for a nickel and a dime.

They sound like the Manchus in the Qing Era.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

[MENTION=138714] The Qajars were turks it doesn't mean you should defend them.

My dear, when did I defend "The Qajar"? That is how a dictatorship ends if the nation does not stop it.

Until the 1950's we were still being directly affected by their policies. You know all this.

Aaammaa, I never accept Iran is so undeveloped in 2013, as a result of "The Qajar". When was Japan gameover in the WW2? When was Japan a shining star in world economy, again?

I accepted the responsibility of Turk dictators performance (although by that time Tabriz was the city where democracy demands were started.) "The Qajar" was up to 1925. Now it is 2013. 88 years have passed. My question is "will you accept the responsibility of Persian dictators performance?"

 

[twilight]

That was also because of the great Disaster called Qajar Dynasty .
At the time of Nadir Shah , Russian Army Escaped from the Nadir Shah army even without firing a single bullet.
at the time of first Qajar King Iran army defeated Russian Army at the time of second Qajar King Abbas Mirza the crown prince who was responsible for the Azerbaijan province repeatedly asked The king to send equipment and forces to defend against the Russian but that useless and worthless Fath-Ali shah decide not to send the troop and equipment and mony and instead stay in his Harem (a Harem that put the harem of any Ottoman Turk Emperor or Chinese emperor Harem to shame) and mast?????? on mountains of Gold. and the situation of were so bad in the Azerbaijan that the women in Azerbaijan court when saw the situation gave all their Jewel and Golds so they can buy equipment made some small preparation against the Russian Army but that was not enough .

Sadly Abbas Mirza died before Fath-Ali Shah .

and that was one of longest war that Russia had in that era ....

............

and don't blame Qajar so badly , in fact Nadir and Agha Mohammad khan Qajar were the one who ruined the country ... Agha Mohammad khan Qajar said this to Fath ali shah " if you want keep your throne you should keep people in illiteracy " and it become a motto for Qajar because Agha Mouammad khan was the founder of Qajar destiny ....

and simply Iran hadn't mean to fight one of greatest empire in that era .... and our population was not enough to fight with Russia as well .....the result of not having enough population , nothing any industrial factory , and a useless king and not having budget was lose war ...

and Fath ali shah was better king than Nasser al din shah ...
....................

anyway , Japan hadn't any resource that why wolves let him alone and that why he grow ...

even now , wolves won't leave us alone .... because we have resource ...

 

[Type 052D]

If Iran modernized then there would be no Russo-Japanese war but Russo-Iran war. Tehran may be the heart of an new Persian empire~!

 

[TopCat]

Iran population is too small to become a power like Japanese.

Comparing Iran with Japan is way out of context.

Iran was pretty lucky that it did not fall under colonial rule whereas Japan was fighting to become a new colonial master in the east against both USA/UK and Russia.

 

[Serpentine]

Iran population is too small to become a power like Japanese.

Comparing Iran with Japan is way out of context.

Iran was pretty lucky that it did not fall under colonial rule whereas Japan was fighting to become a new colonial master in the east against both USA/UK and Russia.

So population is the only problem?
Can you explain how on earth are UK, France and Germany considered as big powers?

The problem lies somewhere other than population.

 

[Solomon2]

In the 1850s, the old Tokugawa Shogunate was overthrown by the pro-modernist bakufu rebels who wanted Japan to become an great Nation State that can can compete and stand
up to the western powers. If I remember correctly, Iran was under Qajar dynasty and did not modernize well into the early 20th century like China. Iranian progressives had the chance to make Persia an Imperial power again, why did they not take it? @Mod I hope this threat is allowed as it is defence related.

Great Scott! That's the first time I've heard anyone ask that question in decades! Didn't you see what happened when the Shah tried to pull Iran into the modern world in only two decades? He stirred up a countervailing conservative reaction that led to revolution and Khomeini's rule. That's what Iran's previous rulers were trying to avoid by holding off on modernization; playing between Russia and Britain was much preferred instead.

 

[Serpentine]

Great Scott! That's the first time I've heard anyone ask that question in decades! Didn't you see what happened when the Shah tried to pull Iran into the modern world in only two decades? He stirred up a countervailing conservative reaction that led to revolution and Khomeini's rule. That's what Iran's previous rulers were trying to avoid by holding off on modernization; playing between Russia and Britain was much preferred instead.

So you are telling the revolution in Iran happened because Shah was making Iran modern?
I don't even know where to begin to answer this statement.Although I disagree with you most of the times, but I always counted on you for defending your purpose with facts,logic and evidence.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Didn't you see what happened when the Shah tried to pull Iran into the modern world in only two decades?

One of the reasons was that but please check the following video, especially from 5:30 to 6:33.

and this one:

 

[Type 052D]

Please stay on topic! Japan had conservative elements but the reformist prevailed! The 19th century is different to the 20th century. Religion did not have such an direct impact as social darwinism was prelivent in the expansion of the west. Mordenize or suffer. Thats why Korea and China failed while Japan succeded.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Let's forget about the past and embrace the future.

And i am pretty the 21th Century Iran will become greatly modernized.

 

[Solomon2]

Please stay on topic! Japan had conservative elements but the reformist prevailed!

WTF? Japan modernized because after 1859 that's what the Emperor ordered. Eager to build Japan as a bulwark against Russia Britain and Germany helped. Liberal elements who flourished from exposure to the West were squashed out in the 1920s; militarists and large capitalists dominated Japan until the 1945 surrender.

So you are telling the revolution in Iran happened because Shah was making Iran modern?
I don't even know where to begin to answer this statement.Although I disagree with you most of the times, but I always counted on you for defending your purpose with facts,logic and evidence.

I'd like to hear more from you. For this interpretation has been the convention in the U.S. for decades and I want to read a rebuttal.

 

[Serpentine]

My dear, when did I defend "The Qajar"? That is how a dictatorship ends if the nation does not stop it.

Aaammaa, I never accept Iran is so undeveloped in 2013, as a result of "The Qajar". When was Japan gameover in the WW2? When was Japan a shining star in world economy, again?

I accepted the responsibility of Turk dictators performance (although by that time Tabriz was the city where democracy demands were started.) "The Qajar" was up to 1925. Now it is 2013. 88 years have passed. My question is "will you accept the responsibility of Persian dictators performance?"

This is not about being a Turk doctator or Persian dictator.It's simply about dictatorship.No one is defending Pahlavi era.but we all know if Pahlavi had stayed, Iran would become a modern and a developed country... And a puppet.Qajars tended to keep people illeterate to stay in power and only cared about their Herems and 72 virgins.Pahlavi was a dictator, he wanted to make Iran modern, but he also suppressed people, and there was nothing blocking Iran from becoming a first world country since all the world powers closed their eyes on what his regime was doing to people and supported it by all means.Neither one was good.

I'd like to hear more from you. For this interpretation has been the convention in the U.S. for decades and I want to read a rebuttal.

I explained it above.Your country was supporting a police state, a dictatorship that served its interests in ME and also to keep Soviets out of ME with help of Turkey and Iran.There was no 'human rights' back then, no one criticized the Shah even for once in the west.That's why people, from Islamists to Communist,from believers to Atheists revolted against him and toppled him.As you see, it's a hypocrisy from your country's ruling government back then.Then,after the revolution, suddenly U.S started to care about humanity,women's right and democracy in Iran.That's why in Iran, even the strong regime opponets, don't trust U.S either, because of its double-sided actions against our country.
People didn't revolt against Shah because he was 'modernizing Iran', but they did it because he was an oppressor.

One interesting fact about attacking U.S embassy in '79 was U.S actions against Iranian people during Shah's time.That's not something you hear everyday in mainstream U.S media.Though I am still against that attack on U.S embassy and think it was a mistake,but there was a chain of events that led to this incident.From 1953 coup executed by CIA and toppling demoratically elected PM of Iran to closing its eyes on Shah's atrocities against his own people.If the '53 Coup had not happenned, most probably Iran wouldn't be an Islamic Republic today, but a constitutional monarchy and a democracy and also, a first world modern country.But in 1953,the course of Iranian history changed andIran became a dictatorship, a puppet under U.S influence.

You have no idea even after all these years, people still remember and talk about that coup and how it destroyed their country and as I said, what a regular U.S citizen sees in media, is how Iran wants to 'destroy the world' or how 'uncivilized Iranians are', without even noticing what has gone on this country in last century.it kinda reminds me of the last scene of Gangs of New York,and how that imporatant people and incidents buried under history.
God, I love that movie, it's truly a masterpiece.