How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[Pak47]

How will you counter Saheen 1A, with reports that radar can't track it?

 

[deckingraj]

How will you counter Saheen 1A, with reports that radar can't track it?

Well if radars can't track it then there is no way it can be countered...though haven't heard of a stealth BM so far....mind throwing some light on it???

 

[The SC]

How about you helping us out?? For a starter enlighten us that why would we use our so called ICBM on Pakistan??

Just in case!

 

[Laughing_soldier]

The Indian ABM is a cash pit aimed to help corrupt people stockpile money. Pakistan needs to ignore it.

The Indian nuclear submarine, aircraft carriers, fifth generation fighters, SLBM are alo cash pit aimed to help corrupt people stockpile money. Pakistan needs to ignore it.



But you can't.

How will you counter Saheen 1A, with reports that radar can't track it?

Why radar cannot track it? Where did you hear that?

 

[Laughing_soldier]

ABM Tests were done in ideal conditions. BM path was known. Now under realistic scenario. When a medium range Ballistic missile travelling with 8-10 mach speed going to hit it's target at 1000 Km range, 8-10 mach = 10,000-12,000 KM/Hour. which means it requires 3-6 minutes to hit a target. How can ABM react so quick and so fast unless it's processing it with speed of super computer?

It was not ideal condition. It was realistic warlike condition.

the target launched at 10:10 and destroyed at 10:15, think how fast the procesing power and reaction time is....

A few minutes after the ‘hostile’ missile, a modified surface-to-surface Prithvi, took off at 10.10 a.m. from Launch Complex-3 at Chandipur, the interceptor missile, Advanced Air Defence (AAD), was fired from the Wheeler Island. As the target missile climbed to a height about 100 km and began descending at rapid speed, the interceptor travelling at supersonic speed homed on to the target and smashed it to smithereens around 10.15 a.m. at a 15-km altitude in the endo-atmosphere.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2878400.ece?homepage=true




The Mission Control Centre for the AAD interceptor trial held on 10th February 2012 was deployed in Master-Slave configuration at DRDO Hyderabad and Wheeler Island, Orissa to ensure high availability with built in fault tolerance at each location.

The Mission Control Centre of the Indian BMD programme is one of the most advanced, automated net-centric Command and Control systems in the world.

The Master MCC located more than a thousand kilometer away at Hyderabad from the Missile test range, received the target data in real time from multiple weapon system radars. The complete Air Situation Picture during the BMD trial was provided to the MCC commander using advanced data fusion and target classification techniques.

After the classification of the target as an enemy Ballistic missile, Mission Control Centre issued engagement orders to the AAD Launch Centre located at Wheeler island in Dhamra.

The complete engagement sequence from target detection to destruction was controlled by Mission Control Centre in net-centric mode of operation. The interceptor missile lifted off from Wheeler island destroying the target at an altitude of 15 km.

The AAD Trial has successfully demonstrated complete functionality in deployment configuration of Mission Control Centre for the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme.

The Hindu : News / National : Interceptor scores a direct hit on target missile

The two launches - that of the attacker missile and of the interceptor - took place independently and they were controlled by radars at different places in the country and by the Mission Control Centre and the Launch Control Centre. Fifteen computers stationed at Hyderabad, Balasore, Chandipur, Konark, Puri, Wheeler Island and so on worked in unison and made the mission a complete success. “We saw the fragments of the target missile forming a track on the computer screen, confirming that the target was destroyed,” said Dr. Saraswat, who is also Director-General of DRDO.

Mr. Chander, DRDO's Chief Controller for missiles and strategic systems, called it “an excellent interception” and that “the entire interception was automated with radars tracking the incoming target missile.” While the Launch Control Centre was situated in the Wheeler Island, the Mission Control Centre was situated a few “thousands of kilometers away from the launch point” of the attacker missile, he claimed.

D.S. Reddy, Programme Director, BMD programme, said the success of the interception proved that India had graduated “from the experimental mode to the deployment mode” of its interceptors. While the target missile belonged to 600 km range class, the interceptor missile was capable of taking on missiles which had a range of 2,000 km. “We met all the objectives we had as part of the mission and we have demonstrated to the user [the Army] whatever we were claiming,” Mr. Reddy said.

 

[ice_man]

so 33 pages later and we have no answer or a proper discussion! and like most threads this one is going nowhere!!

 

[DARKY]

Well if radars can't track it then there is no way it can be countered...though haven't heard of a stealth BM so far....mind throwing some light on it???

Our LRTR are designed to tarck a 0.1m2 RCS missile from 1000km or a cricket ball upto 1400km... although If its somehow invisible on Radar.. there are Infra-red based tracking and guidance system...Its another thing we haven't done much in this regard.. US BMD shield also has Infra red based Ground based and satellite tracking system which can track extreme heat signatures such as BM launch and RE.. with much ease... as a matter of fact they(Satellites) have also been able to detect house fires in US.

Space-Based Infrared System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Space-Based Infrared System (SBIRS)

Our Next target after successful Induction of both phases of BMD should be Space and Ground based IR tracking system.. which can used as a secondary backup measure in case of High energy Electronic Attacks by enemy on our LRTRs.

 

[deckingraj]

Our LRTR are designed to tarck a 0.1m2 RCS missile from 1000km or a cricket ball upto 1400km... although If its somehow invisible on Radar.. there are Infra-red based tracking and guidance system...Its another thing we haven't done much in this regard.. US BMD shield also has Infra red based Ground based and satellite tracking system which can track extreme heat signatures such as BM launch and RE.. with much ease... as a matter of fact they(Satellites) have also been able to detect house fires in US.

Space-Based Infrared System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Space-Based Infrared System (SBIRS)

Our Next target after successful Induction of both phases of BMD should be Space and Ground based IR tracking system.. which can used as a secondary backup measure in case of High energy Electronic Attacks by enemy on our LRTRs.

... i was just checking if he knows what he is talking about...anyhow thanks for the info...

 

[Black Widow]

What is ballistic missile?

throw a stone in air , that ballistic path, and the missile follows this ballistic path is ballistic missile. reference for ballistic path: physics, class 12 written by H C verma.

now when i throw stone in air it has some speed, when it reaches the top, its speed become 0, at decsend, it aquire speed due to free fall.

some one said here BM has speed of machine 10so it can travel in 3 min. kid no, mach10 is speed when it touches ground.at top of its flight path verticle velocity was 0km/hrs.

the projectile travel max dist if it is projected at 45 degree angle.

 

[The SC]

It was not ideal condition. It was realistic warlike condition.

the target launched at 10:10 and destroyed at 10:15, think how fast the procesing power and reaction time is....

A few minutes after the ‘hostile’ missile, a modified surface-to-surface Prithvi, took off at 10.10 a.m. from Launch Complex-3 at Chandipur, the interceptor missile, Advanced Air Defence (AAD), was fired from the Wheeler Island. As the target missile climbed to a height about 100 km and began descending at rapid speed, the interceptor travelling at supersonic speed homed on to the target and smashed it to smithereens around 10.15 a.m. at a 15-km altitude in the endo-atmosphere.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2878400.ece?homepage=true




The Mission Control Centre for the AAD interceptor trial held on 10th February 2012 was deployed in Master-Slave configuration at DRDO Hyderabad and Wheeler Island, Orissa to ensure high availability with built in fault tolerance at each location.

The Mission Control Centre of the Indian BMD programme is one of the most advanced, automated net-centric Command and Control systems in the world.

The Master MCC located more than a thousand kilometer away at Hyderabad from the Missile test range, received the target data in real time from multiple weapon system radars. The complete Air Situation Picture during the BMD trial was provided to the MCC commander using advanced data fusion and target classification techniques.

After the classification of the target as an enemy Ballistic missile, Mission Control Centre issued engagement orders to the AAD Launch Centre located at Wheeler island in Dhamra.

The complete engagement sequence from target detection to destruction was controlled by Mission Control Centre in net-centric mode of operation. The interceptor missile lifted off from Wheeler island destroying the target at an altitude of 15 km.

The AAD Trial has successfully demonstrated complete functionality in deployment configuration of Mission Control Centre for the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme.

The Hindu : News / National : Interceptor scores a direct hit on target missile

The two launches - that of the attacker missile and of the interceptor - took place independently and they were controlled by radars at different places in the country and by the Mission Control Centre and the Launch Control Centre. Fifteen computers stationed at Hyderabad, Balasore, Chandipur, Konark, Puri, Wheeler Island and so on worked in unison and made the mission a complete success. “We saw the fragments of the target missile forming a track on the computer screen, confirming that the target was destroyed,” said Dr. Saraswat, who is also Director-General of DRDO.

Mr. Chander, DRDO's Chief Controller for missiles and strategic systems, called it “an excellent interception” and that “the entire interception was automated with radars tracking the incoming target missile.” While the Launch Control Centre was situated in the Wheeler Island, the Mission Control Centre was situated a few “thousands of kilometers away from the launch point” of the attacker missile, he claimed.

D.S. Reddy, Programme Director, BMD programme, said the success of the interception proved that India had graduated “from the experimental mode to the deployment mode” of its interceptors. While the target missile belonged to 600 km range class, the interceptor missile was capable of taking on missiles which had a range of 2,000 km. “We met all the objectives we had as part of the mission and we have demonstrated to the user [the Army] whatever we were claiming,” Mr. Reddy said.

If the ballistic missile you have intercepted would have had a nuclear war head, wouldn't that have made it a kind of EMP over India's territory.

It was not ideal condition. It was realistic warlike condition.

the target launched at 10:10 and destroyed at 10:15, think how fast the procesing power and reaction time is....

A few minutes after the ‘hostile’ missile, a modified surface-to-surface Prithvi, took off at 10.10 a.m. from Launch Complex-3 at Chandipur, the interceptor missile, Advanced Air Defence (AAD), was fired from the Wheeler Island. As the target missile climbed to a height about 100 km and began descending at rapid speed, the interceptor travelling at supersonic speed homed on to the target and smashed it to smithereens around 10.15 a.m. at a 15-km altitude in the endo-atmosphere.

The Hindu : News / National : Interceptor scores a direct hit on target missile




The Mission Control Centre for the AAD interceptor trial held on 10th February 2012 was deployed in Master-Slave configuration at DRDO Hyderabad and Wheeler Island, Orissa to ensure high availability with built in fault tolerance at each location.

The Mission Control Centre of the Indian BMD programme is one of the most advanced, automated net-centric Command and Control systems in the world.

The Master MCC located more than a thousand kilometer away at Hyderabad from the Missile test range, received the target data in real time from multiple weapon system radars. The complete Air Situation Picture during the BMD trial was provided to the MCC commander using advanced data fusion and target classification techniques.

After the classification of the target as an enemy Ballistic missile, Mission Control Centre issued engagement orders to the AAD Launch Centre located at Wheeler island in Dhamra.

The complete engagement sequence from target detection to destruction was controlled by Mission Control Centre in net-centric mode of operation. The interceptor missile lifted off from Wheeler island destroying the target at an altitude of 15 km.

The AAD Trial has successfully demonstrated complete functionality in deployment configuration of Mission Control Centre for the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme.

The Hindu : News / National : Interceptor scores a direct hit on target missile

The two launches - that of the attacker missile and of the interceptor - took place independently and they were controlled by radars at different places in the country and by the Mission Control Centre and the Launch Control Centre. Fifteen computers stationed at Hyderabad, Balasore, Chandipur, Konark, Puri, Wheeler Island and so on worked in unison and made the mission a complete success. “We saw the fragments of the target missile forming a track on the computer screen, confirming that the target was destroyed,” said Dr. Saraswat, who is also Director-General of DRDO.

Mr. Chander, DRDO's Chief Controller for missiles and strategic systems, called it “an excellent interception” and that “the entire interception was automated with radars tracking the incoming target missile.” While the Launch Control Centre was situated in the Wheeler Island, the Mission Control Centre was situated a few “thousands of kilometers away from the launch point” of the attacker missile, he claimed.

D.S. Reddy, Programme Director, BMD programme, said the success of the interception proved that India had graduated “from the experimental mode to the deployment mode” of its interceptors. While the target missile belonged to 600 km range class, the interceptor missile was capable of taking on missiles which had a range of 2,000 km. “We met all the objectives we had as part of the mission and we have demonstrated to the user [the Army] whatever we were claiming,” Mr. Reddy said.

If the ballistic missile you have intercepted would have had a nuclear war head, wouldn't that have made it a kind of EMP over India's territory.

 

[ares]

If the ballistic missile you have intercepted would have had a nuclear war head, wouldn't that have made it a kind of EMP over India's territory.




If the ballistic missile you have intercepted would have had a nuclear war head, wouldn't that have made it a kind of EMP over India's territory.

It will if the nuclear warhead goes off..but mostly force of impact of the kill vehicle/ warhead explosion obliterates the warhead meaning chain reaction does not get started ..infact to Hit to kill vehicles have the ability to completely atomizes the warhead.

Even if nuclear warhead does go off ...at that altitude ..it is incapable of doing significant damage on ground..on the other hand EMP generated will knock down the electronics/power supply for hundred of miles..but still much better than the alternative.

 

[The SC]

It is true, but still dangerous I mean.
and to tell you another truth, even the US and Russia couldn't count much on their ABMs, and seeked alternatives which we all know have failed too.
So, the main thing is to avoid war; India in my personal opinion has the inherent right to self-defence, since anyone who wants peace prepares for war. But please Indian friends, stop bragging about virtual achievements in defence and start bragging about real scientific, socio-economic and human mind advancements. since talk of war will bring nothing positive to India.
I appreciate your insight ares

 

[jamshaid56us]

well well well, What about if an atomic bomb is detonated over indian space or some kilometers above Dehli????? The world is spending more money on stealth technology rather than any so called Missile Defence System, everybody knows the secrets of Indian ABM and Pakistan know how to fail your strategy. what if hundreds of missiles are comming towards Dehli????

Pakistan is working on stealth missile technology and its cruise missiles showed the teraing hugging capabilities and radar counter measures. Improvements are on their way. Pakistan successfully carried the second phase of its missile arsenal development program and improved the capabilities of its missiles and in some cases introduced new sub category ( like Shaheen 1A etc.).

Shaheen Missile series is a real threat for india because of its high speed, some years ago a defence analyst of America said that 3-5 patriot missiles must be launched togather than there is a probability to intercept Shaheen Missile.

In a recent military exercise last mont Pakistan successfully tested the Anti tank LASER weapon to disable a Tank, the news was breaked by a local private media with a video, but than probably security agencies prohibbeted them and other channels to report this news. Because Pakistan always hold a strategy of obscuring its Secret weapons.

this technology can be used to disable incomming missiles, aircrafts etc. this technology can bust any MDS.

I'm not starting a controversy but only stating facts.

 

[jamshaid56us]

here is a glimpse of the news.

 

[jamshaid56us]

This Video is answer to Indian ABM system

Babur Cruise Missile

RAAD Cruise Missile

Babur Cruise Missile have almost same specifications of US Tomahawk cruise missile. It can carry traditional as well as nuclear warheads, it has terrain hugging and radar avoiding capabilities, it can not be detected by radar, the jet engine has low noise which makes it really stealthy. The most important thing is the PIN POINT ACCURACY.

Beside this stealth missile technology there are other ways to fail ABM systems, this first way is to trigger false radar alram by the use of elctronic countermeasures, it can be done by launching false targets in the air, every radar avoiding technique an be used to blind radar.

if the radar fails to detect incomming target or locked down the wrong target the ABM system fails.

Second way is to launch more missiles toward target than the capability of ABMS, thats where every Missile Defence Systems really fails. You can not rely on these MDS 100%, these are just conventional tactics to release tenshion on Public level, while in reality they can only be used agaisnt a terrorist missile attack (if they have capability to launch one ) or limited missile attack. For a full scale War its a junk thing.

And the most reliable way to fail Indian Missile Defence System is to Launch 100's of missiles togather or A Babur Cruise Missile , All Pakistani Missiles are FAF, Fire and Forget, Once it is launched it has pin point accuracy.

Pakistan Zindabad