Hollande's visit in India : 2 major deals on the table

[Vergennes]

La visite de François Hollande en Inde prévue fin janvier pourrait être l'occasion de la signature du contrat des 36 Rafale et d'une éventuelle commande de six sous-marins Scorpène supplémentaires.

First,as we all know,Hollande will be the chief guest at India's republic day. The Elysée stated "This invitation reflects the quality and dynamism of the strategic partnership between India and France, which will be further strengthened on this occasion ""

According to latribune.fr,2 major deals should be part of the discussions between Modi and Hollande ;

-Rafale deal (a first order of 36 Rafale)
-6 more scorpène submarines

The Elysée also stated "The visit of Francois Hollande is also in line with the Paris Climate Conference where "India has played a key role for an ambitious agreement,"

It is estimated that the deals could be signed by the end of January.

Rafale, Scorpène : et si l'Inde sortait son chèquier fin janvier
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Now guys we just have to pray,wait and see.

@PARIKRAMA (I really like your avatar BTW ) @Abingdonboy @Aminroop @[Bregs] @litefire @Nilgiri @XiNiX @mpk1988 @sarjenprabhu @ranjeet @SarthakGanguly @Bagha @SrNair @anant_s

 

[Nilgiri]

France is an honoured and deep friend of India. I hope 36 Rafales is not the end of it...is all I can say. It should either be 0 or 100+.

Scorpene follow on order is a welcome development.

Outside of defence I am looking forward to more industrial and research partnerships across the whole spectrum of the economies of both nations.

 

[Vergennes]

France is an honoured and deep friend of India. I hope 36 Rafales is not the end of it...is all I can say. It should either be 0 or 100+.

Scorpene follow on order is a welcome development.

Outside of defence I am looking forward to more industrial and research partnerships across the whole spectrum of the economies of both nations.

As India is a developing nation,an emerging power and a big market (Where the needs are always increasing),the economic developments between our nations is more than welcome and it is a win-win situation for both sides.
Lot of French groups are seeing India as an important market.

Just some days ago,Alstom won a +3bn€ deal in India.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/45f8e4ca-97d9-11e5-9228-87e603d47bdc.html

ALSTOM : deux contrats en Inde pour 3,7 milliards d'euros - Capital.fr

May the partnership between our nations continue to rise.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Sky is the limit for Indo - French relations, with more cultural interchange happening in the field of academics, and more Indian students preferring France for their higher studies, these two nations are bound to come closer.

 

[Nilgiri]

As India is a developing nation,an emerging power and a big market (Where the needs are always increasing),the economic developments between our nations is more than welcome and it is a win-win situation for both sides.
Lot of French groups are seeing India as an important market.

Yes this is the "common" sense thing that everyone knows.

What is less known is the French assistance and cooperation given when India was stagnating badly in the cold war. France was one of the few countries that went out of its way to give access to important alloy materials, communications, electronics and propulsion research among other things. Still to this day, my father rememebers very fondly his year he spent in France doing an internship under Alcatel under a govt - govt parternship program (back in mid 80s).

It will not be forgotten by those who know about these things...and therefore France will always be one of the truest strongest friends of India....because those are the ones that helped when things were bad because they believed in you to make things better.

ust some days ago,Alstom won a +3bn€ deal in India.

Yes it was discussed in the Indian railways thread and some other threads quite extensively. Alstom is also going to be a big player for regular metro train and other transport systems in India for many many years to come.

May the partnership between our nations continue to rise.

Yup. There is not a tiny doubt or worry about it!

 

[anant_s]

If there are any All Weather Friends, that India can count on, it always have been Russia and France.
France's relatively independent policy right from Cold War Era (thanks to Charles De Gaul) is something that brought India closer to France and thankfully, the relations are as sweet and warm, as the delights that come out of a french pastry shop.
I would love to see some forward movement on EPR reactor deal for Jaitapur too. Defence deals apart, Airbus could also find some lucrative deals in fast expanding Indian civil aviation market. Alstom is providing 9,000 KW electric locomotive factory (One of the biggest rolling stock deal anywhere in world). the list goes on.
i can only see things improving and going from strength to strength.

 

[Grevion]

La visite de François Hollande en Inde prévue fin janvier pourrait être l'occasion de la signature du contrat des 36 Rafale et d'une éventuelle commande de six sous-marins Scorpène supplémentaires.

First,as we all know,Hollande will be the chief guest at India's republic day. The Elysée stated "This invitation reflects the quality and dynamism of the strategic partnership between India and France, which will be further strengthened on this occasion ""

According to latribune.fr,2 major deals should be part of the discussions between Modi and Hollande ;

-Rafale deal (a first order of 36 Rafale)
-6 more scorpène submarines

The Elysée also stated "The visit of Francois Hollande is also in line with the Paris Climate Conference where "India has played a key role for an ambitious agreement,"

It is estimated that the deals could be signed by the end of January.

Rafale, Scorpène : et si l'Inde sortait son chèquier fin janvier
-
Now guys we just have to pray,wait and see.

@PARIKRAMA (I really like your avatar BTW ) @Abingdonboy @Aminroop @[Bregs] @litefire @Nilgiri @XiNiX @mpk1988 @sarjenprabhu @ranjeet @SarthakGanguly @Bagha @SrNair @anant_s

Rafale deal is a must during the President's visit.
I thought there were plans for 3 more scorpene.
India finalizing plans to order three more Scorpene submarines - Times of India
I think Prime Minister Modi will take President Hollandes for a tea as he did with President Obama just like President Hollandes took him on a boat ride. It works very well in country to country relations.

 

[[Bregs]]

Relationship with Francs has always been unique and special, it also remain unaffected when India conducted nuclear tests, whole world was rushing to sanction us except France and Russia

 

[Manindra]

Well, Rafale or no Rafale, Indo-French relations are tested on fire of time even during 1998 sanction era.
Even , without defense deals, civilian sector like railway, automobile, electronics, nuclear energy, smart cities projects etc. can bring more than 100 billion USD partnership.

 

[Alphacharlie]

I am Surprised to see this Halo Effect for France....

In Arms Market there is No Friend or FOE

French Govt Charged us 1 BN USD for 40 Mirage 2000 in 1984 + Armament Cost, Training, Base Steup Cost etc... They even charged us again to remove the Mid Air re-fueling probes.

Even now, on Rafale the discussion committee had to really Fight on Basic issues like installation of Russian/India./Israeli weaps in Rafale. French wanted their weaps only....

French have been clear on What to share on Scorpene... even after Hard Cash

This is a Pure Commercial Relation No Favor or Cost reduction was done by Frenches on Mirage 2000 Upgrade.

They say you pay us we support you for NSG, Security counsel seat support, as it has no Impact on them....

Throw a Card against French in UN on Actions in Africa and then see...

So Gentlemen this Love is for Money which we Offer. Which is being reciprocated by these Pink Cheek Smiles.

 

[zambino]

So its gonna be 6 scorpene.. Then in that case good bye type 214 and others.. Good decision I would say. Scorpenes follow on will be delivered fast then other contenders.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

2 excellent links below

‘Scorpene P75 programme progressing well’

‘Scorpene P75 programme progressing well’

Excepts from both links where i wrote on Dec 10th, 2015

I think we should keep ordering a tranche of 3 for some more time and get Scorpenes in MDL procured from present 6 to 9 to 12 or more over a period of time. Next tranche should be ordered round about 2020 by which we can see if 6 are delivered and 3 follow on order of 2015-16 timeframe is progressing for 2021-23 delivery schedule or not. This is the best way of utiising this capability as well as rewarding MDL for performance as well as DCNS for ensuring no more delays.
The scorpenes can effectively help us first retire older SSKs of HDW and also help during the timeframe of Kilo upgrades.

The P75I even if the tender is issued next year the selection and finally the delivery schedule should be in 2024+ timeline. The tender selection announcement will be very well into 2017-18 with at least another 2 years for pvt sector to set up the requisite infrastructure implying around 2019-20. Post that i see 4 years needed for modular construction to start showing its effect and a sub churned out every year so 6 subs in 2024-30 timeline. So actual joining into IN fleet should be 2025-26 to 2031-32 for these subs.

Now my idea was 6+3=9 will keep MDL busy till 2023 surely.. With old HDW to retire and slowly reducing workload of Kilos even after upgrades due to ageing of vessels and keeping them operational for another 15 years i see a scope of replacement of at least 8 such SSKs by 2025. (The older Kilos and HDW ones). Thus my logic states either get new kilos or get the MDLcontinue churning out more SSKs.

Eventually the 14 SSKs of Kilo and HDW needs to be replaced completely. and For that i see Scorpenes 12 and P75I also 12 subs. IF 2030 is the timeline then getting 12 Scorpenes and 4 P75I inducted could give us a more than 1-1 replacements advantage over older vessels. Frankly looking at IN and vast role of subs in our region, we shoud have 24+ SSKs all the time.

+++++++++++++++++++++
This information may mean we may opt for just scorpenes only (all with AIP i suppose from the onset) and if we do get say upgraded kilos, the chances are P75I may be either delayed more (for negotiating some more high end tech) or to focus on SSN/SSBN projects.

@sarjenprabhu : Bro you asked there in the thread about scorpenes reaching 12 from 9? We ought to be happy as our logic seems to be in the same way MOD planners are looking at things.. Its a very good development..

 

[Vergennes]

One question!! Indo French ties are deep and proven during tough time and "sky is the limit" as said.
Then what does it mean selling Agosta 90B to pakistan ??? Or its the business which matters ..

Lot of kickback in this deal..... Sadly we ended up with 11 of our workers killed. I won't even debate about who killed them and for what reasons..

 

[Archie]

Additional scorpenes whether 3 or 6 are a welcome change and I support this
I would however also have liked the Rafales orders to be increased to 80 simply because that will allow Airforce to retire the 5 Mig27 Sqds without any repercussions on operational capabilities

 

[PARIKRAMA]

And as i stated about Rafale new plans here is what a noted boarder in another forum talked..

Full courtesy to CNL-PL-AA in the other forum
Jargon INCAS isSpectra improvment with GaN

• INCAS for F3R and Melbaa ( with a new name ) for MLU.
• INCAS in 2018. M88 improvement for all F3R. Retrofit possible for all precedent versions.
• Tragedac for F4 and Melbaa for MLU. M88 evolution ( 8,2/8,5t ) and INCAS would come in F3-R sooner than scheduled, thanks to export orders, OPEX and good tests. Many things could change and be accelerated in the coming months.
• MLU in 2025 seems correct. F4 could come sooner than scheduled and be called F3-R2, around 2021/2022.

@Abingdonboy @FrenchPilot
Looks like Rafale development pathway is very clear.. Its going to become again far lethal. The present M88s gives 7 Tonnes plus post afterburneer.. thats gonna go up to 8.-8.5 tonnes implying more power, heavier weapon payload performance improvement (by 10% approx) and most importantly will improve its chasing ability... Almost in lime with the similar engine of UAE negotiations M88-9 (9 tonnes with 90KN after thrust).
The development means Rafale A2A role is slowly getting more strengthened coupled with increased performance for payload and the new radar upgrades, its a good development path planned... (from twin engined approx 15 tonnes afterburner to around 16.4-17 tonnes). On top the M88 engine is really friendly in service.

As always French folks comes out probably the best numbers achievable in reality. They did not target very high numbers rather a limited 10% type improvement which itself is achievable and remarkable in realistic expectations.