Rafale's aerial war games with F22 in year 2009 ( from air & cosmos magazin

[sancho]

Agreed..
But apparently there were BVR engagements taken in ATLC..or was this only between the Rafale and EF???

The BVR combats we know were between mixed groupes of EF and Rafale, but we also know that UAEs F16s and M2K as well has some F7 from PAF were there back then. Not sure what combats they did and with what kind of RoEs.

Again.. draws in Air combat arent really results to be counted..

Of course, but the detailes provided from ATLC were more than interesting, be it the dogfights against F22, the simultaneous attacks of Rafale against ground targets and incoming fighters, or the BVR advantage of Rafale against EF due to the long range ID capabilities of FSO TV and passive MICA shots.
ATLC was one of the most discussed, but also most detailed reported exercise that explained much of Rafales capabilities during the following months and some of these capabilities were later proven in Libya too.

 

[sancho]

but there is a problem u need the aircraft to be in active mode (i.e) radar turn on i doubt todays fighter including 4th 0r 5th gen fighters rarely turn on their radar as they depend more on AWACS support.

EM and other signals will be emitted not only by the radar, but by other parts of the avionics as well, the radar is only the biggest contributor and as we can see at the F35 now, it has very long range IR MAWS sensors as well. The 5th gen fighters are more advanced not only because of stealth, but also their superior passiv sensors which will play a way bigger role in future, Rafale is one of the few 4th gen fighters that have developed them to a similar advanced stage and that's it's main advantage, not the radar like it was the case in older fighters.


yes thats a fact .but ways to counter it are already been worked out by Russians/ french / & of course china[/QUOTE]

 

[SQ8]

The BVR combats we know were between mixed groupes of EF and Rafale, but we also know that UAEs F16s and M2K as well has some F7 from PAF were there back then. Not sure what combats they did and with what kind of RoEs.



Of course, but the detailes provided from ATLC were more than interesting, be it the dogfights against F22, the simultaneous attacks of Rafale against ground targets and incoming fighters, or the BVR advantage of Rafale against EF due to the long range ID capabilities of FSO TV and passive MICA shots.
ATLC was one of the most discussed, but also most detailed reported exercise that explained much of Rafales capabilities during the following months and some of these capabilities were later proven in Libya too.

And this is where the Rafale stood out against the EF..
Being able to engage air to air and air to ground targets simultaneously proved its omnirole slogan.
Both the F-22 and EF.. were designed from the outset to be excellent in the air-dominance role with a secondary strike capability.

 

[DrSomnath999]

EM and other signals will be emitted not only by the radar, but by other parts of the avionics as well, the radar is only the biggest contributor and as we can see at the F35 now, it has very long range IR MAWS sensors as well.

but as u said radar is the biggest contributer ,but from avionics is minimal & also it is not constant like radar emission

The 5th gen fighters are more advanced not only because of stealth, but also their superior passiv sensors which will play a way bigger role in future, Rafale is one of the few 4th gen fighters that have developed them to a similar advanced stage and that's it's main advantage, not the radar like it was the case in older fighters.

exactly ,Rafale's FSO & SPECTRA are it's main assets

 

[Safriz]

good job OP....nice read..

 

[Storm Force]

Wouldnt read too much into international dog fights in excecises.

REASON ALL SIDES work to huge limitations, downgraded radar coverage, and NO BVR as to not give away to much info to outsiders... othersides.

Everybody knows F22 is KING in sky.

BUT after that rafale is as good as ITS GETS........... The indians did their home work well in MMRCA selection process.

 

[Malik Usman]

India is in Deal with France to buy Rafale.......that's why..... my Indian friends and telling the world that Rafel is best coz they are going to bag a deal....

 

[joekrish]

Thank you OP and some members got to learn a lot.

 

[Shatterpoint]

Will India take the Raffy's to Red Flag? Not sure when the Raffy is going to be inducted into the IAF? Also what is the view of the general population towards France?

Some Muslim guy I was talking to in Australia told me that Indians don't like Western people? I know this could be bullshit, because my friends are westerners who almost live in India and have never said anything of the sort to me.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Will India take the Raffy's to Red Flag? Not sure when the Raffy is going to be inducted into the IAF? Also what is the view of the general population towards France?

well it depends upon IAF ,as india had earliaer had taken SU 30 to Red flag so i think that wont be a problem .
Yes india had not forgotten the support which french had shown to india during 1998 nuclear test when the whole world slapped
sanctions against it.

Some Muslim guy I was talking to in Australia told me that Indians don't like Western people? I know this could be bullshit, because my friends are westerners who almost live in India and have never said anything of the sort to me.

what crap !!
we are as friendly to ALIENS as we are friendly to westerners

 

[DrSomnath999]

India is in Deal with France to buy Rafale.......that's why..... my Indian friends and telling the world that Rafel is best coz they are going to bag a deal....

oh boy .!!1
do u know what ur talking ,if thats the case go & ask PAF officials why PAF was dying to to have french avionics & Mica missiles .
Now see why rafale rulez in all 4th or 4.5 gen fighters


1)DUTCH EVALUATION EVALUATION REPORT IN 2001

Avion de chasse: les Pays-Bas ont-ils favorisé le F-35 ? - bruxelles2 Europe de la Défense
Dedefensa.org : To The Point, Context n°50 (March-April 2002) - The Road to Chaos and The Dutch Way

2)SWITZERLAND, LEAKED EVALUATION REPORT:
I) NWA PHASE I 2008 ANALYSIS WITH REAL FLIGHT TRIALS:

II)NWA PHASE II 2009 ANALYSIS WITH REAL FLIGHT TRIALS:

http://kovy.free.fr/temp/rafale/pdf/12332.pdf
http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/files/rapport suisse.pdf
Rafale News: Switzerland, Evaluation report quick analysis

3)RAFALE'S SUPERB PERFORMANCE IN AERIAL EXERCISE WITH MIRAGE 2000 & f16:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...resse/lbg07/defense/rafale/foxThree_nr_10.pdf

RAFALE THRASHING TYPHOON 9-1 in Solenzara, 2009.

A first indisputable skirmish

The Armée de l' Air has been able to experience this superiority in dogfight in September 2009, during an exercise organized by the French and British headquarters, during a deployment on the Solenzara airbase in Corsica.

Few days , the EC-1/7 stands next with the Royal Air Force transformation squadron on typhoons. The English have thought of everything, and introduce to the French pilots the simulated engagement patterns they wish to practice facing the Rafale. The French pilots push back a smile: the conditions of the exercice are, on paper, custom-made for the Typhoons , they plan within visual range fights , 1 vs 1, under 20,000 ft and at 350 knots. Whatever. The 'Provence' squadron takes up the gauntlet ... The 2 planes take off, then meet up at 18 000 ft to start the exercise. The aircraft are flying on the same trajectory with about 2 km of lateral separation. "Turn Away" with this announcement, the pilots turn 45 ° outward, to move away from each other. A few seconds later, the "turn in" and the planes turn toward each other to meet face-to-face in the sky. Once both aircraft is within visual range , its the ultimate ad: "Fight's on!". The first skirmish is indisputable. It need less than 40 seconds and only 3 crossing for the Rafale pilot to have its gun in firing position. However, the pilots flying the two planes are far from beginners. While the English is considered a Typhoon specialist in air-to-air, the "Provence" pilot has also a solid experience in within visual range combat.

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.

 

[sancho]

And this is where the Rafale stood out against the EF..Being able to engage air to air and air to ground targets simultaneously proved its omnirole slogan.

Indeed and that's what's made it the best choice for IAF too. Theoretically a fully loaded Rafale can engage 6 x ground targets and 6 x air targets at the same time and in a range between 60 to 80Km with AASM and MICA. All this in a single attack!

 

[Shatterpoint]

well it depends upon IAF ,as india had earliaer had taken SU 30 to Red flag so i think that wont be a problem .
Yes india had not forgotten the support which french had shown to india during 1998 nuclear test when the whole world slapped
sanctions against it.



what crap !!
we are as friendly to ALIENS as we are friendly to westerners

Hehehe cool

 

[DrSomnath999]

Indeed and that's what's made it the best choice for IAF too. Theoretically a fully loaded Rafale can engage 6 x ground targets and 6 x air targets at the same time and in a range between 60 to 80Km with AASM and MICA. All this in a single attack!

true,

well apart from both of these
1) reconnaisance: RECO NG

2) BUDDY TO BUDDY REFUELLING

3)ELECTRONIC JAMMING

who knows many new capabilty in future
1) UCAV control

2)mini satellite launching capabilty

3) future directional based IR counter measures (DIRCM)

 

[DrSomnath999]

Wouldnt read too much into international dog fights in excecises.

REASON ALL SIDES work to huge limitations, downgraded radar coverage, and NO BVR as to not give away to much info to outsiders... othersides.

Everybody knows F22 is KING in sky.

BUT after that rafale is as good as ITS GETS........... The indians did their home work well in MMRCA selection process.

agree in exercise u can hide many reals facts ,& usually within visual range fight are common.But the motto is to sharpen ur skills
& exposure to foreign aircraft