History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Kyle Sun]

Good, Vietnam and China were once a country, we had close relation.

I take the times from wiki:

111–40 1st Chinese domination
43–544 2nd Chinese domination
602–938 3rd Chinese domination
1407–1427 4th Chinese domination

You forget the Qing Dynasty .

 

[Edison Chen]

You forget the Qing Dynasty .

joking

 

[xesy]

Interesting.

Hey I often see Chinese authors refer Tokyo as "Đông Kinh" in their works. Does the kanji character of Tokyo relate to East Center somehow?

This is the international version:
One of the renown victories in Vietnamese Naval history was the Battle of Rạch Gầm-Xoài Mút in Tây Sơn Dynasty, during which Nguyễn Huệ (Emperor Quang Trung) defeated the Siamese (Thai) naval force. The battle occurred in present-day Tiền Giang Province on January 19, 1785. Nguyễn Huệ's forces completely destroyed over 50,000 Siamese sailors and 300 warships.

This is Vietnamese version:
:: Lich su Viet Nam ::

A Monument of Victory over Siam:

One of the greatest commander of VN history. There is legend saying that he was planning to march to the North after his victory again 220.000 Qing army, but there were dispute among his brothers and then the remaining of the former dynasty. He passed away too soon. There are people who says that if he had lived for like 30 more years, VN wouldn't have needed Uncle Ho Chi Minh.

 

[Aepsilons]

Hey I often see Chinese authors refer Tokyo as "Đông Kinh" in their works. Does the kanji character of Tokyo relate to East Center somehow?

Very correct, my friend. Tō means "east" and Kyō means "capital," so together they mean "east(ern) capital."

In the past, Tokyo was known as 'EDO', but when EDO was made the Imperial Capital, it was renamed to TOKYO.

first of all, Annam is the not correct name for this period, but Dai Viet. Annam (peaceful South) was the former name when Vietnam was under Chinese rule. the name was changed later to Dai Viet (Great Viet). the war became unavoidable as Siam Kingdom sought hegemony in Laos and Cambodia.

In short, 3 wars were fought between Vietnam and Siam.

1785: Vietnamese victory
1831-34: Vietnamese victory
1841-45: undecided. Peace treaty, Cambodia was placed under joint Siamese-Vietnamese protection.

Vietnam became later the dominant power over Laos and Cambodia.

I am not surprised by Viet Nam's victories against native South East Asian civilizations (Cham, Mon-Khmer, Siamese). Annam / Dai Viet, as an entity that was influenced by Chinese civilization also learned Chinese art of war and the Confucian culture of collective effort for the 'state'. This proved effective against native south east asian civilizations , which had been of Hindu-buddhist in culture and in the art of war.

The Vietnamese Total War against the Cham Kingdom and ultimately eradicating the Cham civilization reminds me of the Qin State's policy to eradicate the Zhu State during the Warring States Period. Qin Shi Huang had ordered the extermination of the Zhu State, then the arch nemesis of the State of Qin. In this regard, the Vietnamese borrowed much from the Chinese in art of war.

Viet Nam is inherently an East Asian (Confucian) Civilization. It is of the same stock as Japan, Korea and the Chinese.

 

[somsak]

This is the international version:
One of the renown victories in Vietnamese Naval history was the Battle of Rạch Gầm-Xoài Mút in Tây Sơn Dynasty, during which Nguyễn Huệ (Emperor Quang Trung) defeated the Siamese (Thai) naval force. The battle occurred in present-day Tiền Giang Province on January 19, 1785. Nguyễn Huệ's forces completely destroyed over 50,000 Siamese sailors and 300 warships.

This is Vietnamese version:
:: Lich su Viet Nam ::

A Monument of Victory over Siam:

The war plan of Siam looked so simple. From the image above.

Very correct, my friend. Tō means "east" and Kyō means "capital," so together they mean "east(ern) capital."

In the past, Tokyo was known as 'EDO', but when EDO was made the Imperial Capital, it was renamed to TOKYO.




I am not surprised by Viet Nam's victories against native South East Asian civilizations (Cham, Mon-Khmer, Siamese). Annam / Dai Viet, as an entity that was influenced by Chinese civilization also learned Chinese art of war and the Confucian culture of collective effort for the 'state'. This proved effective against native south east asian civilizations , which had been of Hindu-buddhist in culture and in the art of war.

The Vietnamese Total War against the Cham Kingdom and ultimately eradicating the Cham civilization reminds me of the Qin State's policy to eradicate the Zhu State during the Warring States Period. Qin Shi Huang had ordered the extermination of the Zhu State, then the arch nemesis of the State of Qin. In this regard, the Vietnamese borrowed much from the Chinese in art of war.

Viet Nam is inherently an East Asian (Confucian) Civilization. It is of the same stock as Japan, Korea and the Chinese.

Dis vietnam has access to Chinese historical war books? I know their scholar use classi cal chinese for writong.

 

[Viet]

You forget the Qing Dynasty .

No, Dai Viet was an independent nation, like Vietnam today.

We only paid tribute to the Qing, like we did to other chinese dynasties. Generally paying tribute is a common form of diplomacy in ancient China. It is about of trade and foreign relations, how China saw other nations. And of course, by paying tribute we accepted China's dominance of the region, and last but not least we made you happy to have the feeling of being the center of the world

 

[Kyle Sun]

No, Dai Viet was an independent nation, like Vietnam today.

We only paid tribute to the Qing, like we did to other chinese dynasties. Generally paying tribute is a common form of diplomacy in ancient China. It is about of trade and foreign relations, how China saw other nations. And of course, by paying tribute we accepted China's dominance of the region, and last but not least we made you happy to have the feeling of being the center of the world

So you are happy to tribute to us ?

 

[xesy]

So you are happy to tribute to us ?

It's like the police take money from street vendors. Police get some for a night snack, street vendors save some from being forced to move to other area. Both side are happy. Of course ancient VNese were scared of China too, it was a giant and more developed civilization. Acient VN fought China not because we were a battle harden race like Sparta, but because there were little options left.

 

[Viet]

So you are happy to tribute to us ?

of course we were very happy to pay tribute to the son of heaven and received peace in return.
but sometimes it is you that was not happy just receiving gift, but wanted Vietnam to become once again a province.

if necessary by force. I bet your dream still lives on even today.

 

[Kyle Sun]

It's like the police take money from street vendors. Police get some for a night snack, street vendors save some from being forced to move to other area. Both side are happy. Of course ancient VNese were scared of China too, it was a giant and more developed civilization. Acient VN fought China not because we were a battle harden race like Sparta, but because there were little options left.

You are some kind of right .
China Central Gov did not care about the footy tribute but the political position of suzerain

 

[Viet]

The war plan of Siam looked so simple. From the image above.

a classical ambush

Dis vietnam has access to Chinese historical war books? I know their scholar use classi cal chinese for writong.

do you refer to the art of war of Sun Tzu? ha ha ha ...pretty sure.
We were using classical chinese as standard until the system was replaced at the begining of 20 century.

 

[Kyle Sun]

of course we were very happy to pay tribute to the son of heaven and received peace in return.
but sometimes it is you that was not happy just receiving gift, but wanted Vietnam to become once again a province.

if necessary by force. I bet your dream still lives on even today.

Our central govs did not attack or annex Vietnam once Viet admitted to be vassal state .

 

[EastSea]

Our central govs did not attack or annex Vietnam once Viet admitted to be vassal state .

No.

It stated in our history: "Chinese envoy using la langue of animal to insult the court. .."

in Vietnamese: << Uốn lưỡi cú diều mà sỉ mắng triều đình >>

 

[Kyle Sun]

No.

It stated in our history: "Chinese envoy using la langue of animal to insult the court. .."

in Vietnamese: << Uốn lưỡi cú diều mà sỉ mắng triều đình >>

To be specific please.

 

[EastSea]

To be specific please.

I copy here another translation in English, it is better than what I did:

"We have seen the enemy ambassadors haughtily traveling over our roads and wagging their owlish tongues to insult the Court. Despicable as dogs and goats, they boldly humiliate our high officials."