History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Viet]

Japanese model doesn't work on every countries. Ottoman Turkey and Mughal India did the same thing - "opening and modernisation", look what happened to them.

Everything can happen, even failure. But why shouldn´t Vietnam stay on Chinese model forever as Japanese system is proved as superior. Just look at the success and strength of Japan´s economy and military (excluded their war crimes).

Surely, it would be for Vietnam as the next major step, comparable to dropping Chinese writing characters and adopting latin 100 years ago, to alienate further from China. But I dopt Chinese would shed tears.

Actually I think Thailand was a better model for Vietnam to learn.

The Thai´s? do you want to insult us? If any, Vietnam looks at Eastern Asian countries for model.

 

[EastSea]

^^the best way is Vietnam being our Special Administrative Region,like HK.then no territory dispute,no fishmen caught.Vietnam can focus on economy development and get support from central government,you may keep your army if needed.

Wet dream.

 

[newlander]

lair and coward.
You let Hoa return, return after you steal all their property and murder them if they do not ?
Who gave away all their property, their house, their money, even their life which their earn themself because they want to return ? simply as that, lair !

Only a stupid fool trust a viet, the lair voice.
Kill all Chinese living in Thai, claim all the sea, dare kill Chinese citizen to set foot on it ? kill them , do your words !

Hoa people help to create your southern land, and then give it to your king , do a viet know its own history ? "Mac Cuu" , yet they treat like trash, their life mean nothing, even now.
Go to any viet forum and you understand that, all viet want is to kill them of, drive them away from their house and steal that.
The genocie mind set run deep in viet blood, you kill of Cham people, all Khmer people in your land, not only Hoa, HMong killed too.

How many Hoa killed because you want to purify your race ?
Do you want me to quote viet voice in viet forums that ask other to kill/deport Hoa ? even they do nothing to you, even now ?
And you said they went back willingly ? yes, Germany Jew die too, willingly.

Do you so stupid that you do not know your own history, do you read the book "Nguoi Thang Cuoc" ?
Wonderfull book, even Japan translating it now, it mark viet as the most correct form: murderer.

viet are Murderer and street robbery.
Lair
Coward because you do not have a gut to talk what you did: ethic cleansing.

 

[ephone]

Am I talking about east turkestan???

Why cannot you get the fxxk off my comments???

What a retard.

Stalin supported the Second East Turkestan Republic and the Communist Secular Uyghur Separatist Ehmetjan Qasim against the KMT in the Ili rebellion.

In fact, the Soviets supported secular Uyghur intellectuals to forment separatism against China since the 1920s. The Governor of Xinjiang, Yang Zengxin was supported by the conservative, religious Uyghur mullahs and clerics who promoted traditional Islamic education against separatist Uyghur jadidists and pro Soviet Uyghurs, who wanted to replace religious education with secular subjects.

And you were screaming about how evil religious schools were.

 

[ephone]

idiots like you know nothing about history.

Since KMT was the official government, most of international support, including the ones from ussr went to KMT. After WWII, CPC indeed got a lot of weapons from the japs after its surrender, as well as a lot left by soviet in Northeast. However, that is after WWII, not during WWII.

KMT was the main force to defend against the japs well CPC was not. However, KMT was so corrupted, except a few, most battles were disastrous.

As for China's policy, well, we have tried our best to support both nk and vn then.

For nk, we have driven the u.s.-led u.n. forces back to the 38th line. However, by China national ability then with her GDP, production level, China could not push U.S. out of korea. U.S. production powers were hundreds of times over What China was then. A stalemate was the best China could achieve then.

As for vn, we have already tried our best to protect the north vn by threatening mass intervention if U.S. invaded north vn. So throughout the vn war, U.S. did not dare to do so. In addition, between the borders of the two, China sent all types of support to vn without interruption. China even trained most cadets in vn army. However, after U.S. withdrawal, what vn asked China was already beyond China's ability: China was near the end of 10-year culture revolution and her economy was in such a bad shape and there was no way for China to get involved into another war. So your indication that China intentionally wanted to divide korea, and vn was way off.

Anyway, there is not much to tell you. China will keep you at a leash. Just like what happened in the past thousands of years, China will teach you a hard lesson when you do not behave.

CPC was in Alliance with the Kuomintang: 1935–1940. When Japan invaded China, Soviet Union could supported to both side. But CPC and Mao has taken his relax in Dian An, applied his trick "sitting on mountain, watching tigers in fighting".

After the end of World War II, the Soviet Union gave quasi-covert support to Mao by their occupation of north east China, which allowed the PLA to move in en masse and took large supplies of arms left by the Japanese's Kwantung Army.

To counter chinese dirty policy against Vietnam, we will do every thing if it to be necessary to defend our country sovereignty, dependence and freedom.



Taiwan stolen our Island Itu Aba 1956. We will take it back, kid.

 

[Genesis]

Actually Vietnam´s greatest weakness is the close relationship to China. The humiliation Vietnam suffered in the last 150 years won´t happen if Vietnam chose the Japan model instead: opening and modernisation of the country.

Yes, Vietnam did the historic mistake, despite independence from the northern neighbor, followed the Chinese model. That was dumb. That model is surely superior to her Southeastern Asian neighbors, but let Vietnam weak and helpless when Western Powers arrived in the 18 century.

It is time for Vietnam to scale down the relationship to China and increase with Japan.

Yu do know japan was even more closed off under the shogun right? It was perry that forced japan to trade with cannons.

Japan wasn't colonized for a variety of reasons, and being able to defend itself was not one of them.

The japanese model is close to china before meiji revolution, and even after. China was the first east asian nation to modernize, people forget, but before the defeat at the first sino japanese war, china was considered the better westernized country with a stronger military. All went down hill after that but here we are.

It is the inability of our leaders that resulted in the humiliation. You guys defeated kublai khan at his height, and yongle emporer after 20 yearsof war. You think the french are stronger than that? Hell no, but the will and ability is gone.

If talking now, you can only follow chinese model, cause you don't have the society that japan has or the conditions. Japan was not self made but made by the states. Also, japan was a world power before the american take over, so it's transition is much more possible due to it. Hence one side is japan, world power, the other iraq, world joke.

 

[Wholegrain]

Actually Vietnam´s greatest weakness is the close relationship to China. The humiliation Vietnam suffered in the last 150 years won´t happen if Vietnam chose the Japan model instead: opening and modernisation of the country.

Yes, Vietnam did the historic mistake, despite independence from the northern neighbor, followed the Chinese model. That was dumb. That model is surely superior to her Southeastern Asian neighbors, but let Vietnam weak and helpless when Western Powers arrived in the 18 century.

It is time for Vietnam to scale down the relationship to China and increase with Japan.

In the Sino French War, after China defeated France in the Keelung campaign in Taiwan, and defeated the French army at Bang bo and forced them into the retreat from Lang Son. China captured Lang Son and the war ended with the French army in retreat. The Jules Ferry government in France collapsed and France was forced to enter into negotiations.

China forced France to drop both their demand for an indemnity and their claims to the Pescadores and forced them to evacuate from Taiwan. But when it came to Vietnam, Japan threatened to help France to attack and invade China, if China did not allow France to take over Vietnam as a protectorate. The Treaty of Tianjin was signed because of the Japanese. The reason is because China and Japan were have a dispute over Korea's status during the Sino French War. As usual Japan wanted to force Korea to become pro Japan. The Japanese did not give a damn about whether other asians would be victimized by the west.

Its thanks to Japan that Vietnam was a colony of France.

 

[Sergi]

@Viet or anybody from Vietnam :
I need some information about Vietnam and i would be glad if you can support it with some source

- from where the Vietcong ( hope its not offensive ) pick up gorilla warfare ??? And any particular idol for that warfare technique ???
- which of the state heads of VN visited India ??? Anyone of them visited any particular place in "India - Maharashtra" ???

 

[EastSea]

lair and coward.
You let Hoa return, return after you steal all their property and murder them if they do not ?
Who gave away all their property, their house, their money, even their life which their earn themself because they want to return ? simply as that, lair !

Only a stupid fool trust a viet, the lair voice.
Kill all Chinese living in Thai, claim all the sea, dare kill Chinese citizen to set foot on it ? kill them , do your words !

Hoa people help to create your southern land, and then give it to your king , do a viet know its own history ? "Mac Cuu" , yet they treat like trash, their life mean nothing, even now.
Go to any viet forum and you understand that, all viet want is to kill them of, drive them away from their house and steal that.
The genocie mind set run deep in viet blood, you kill of Cham people, all Khmer people in your land, not only Hoa, HMong killed too.

How many Hoa killed because you want to purify your race ?
Do you want me to quote viet voice in viet forums that ask other to kill/deport Hoa ? even they do nothing to you, even now ?
And you said they went back willingly ? yes, Germany Jew die too, willingly.

Do you so stupid that you do not know your own history, do you read the book "Nguoi Thang Cuoc" ?
Wonderfull book, even Japan translating it now, it mark viet as the most correct form: murderer.

viet are Murderer and street robbery.
Lair
Coward because you do not have a gut to talk what you did: ethic cleansing.

you just showed your true color.

we let your ancestors to live in Vietnam when they were poor and hunger, escaped from violation and famine in China. Ás human being we take care about you like our brothers.

But China govt used you as "Đội quân thứ 5" (number 5 army) to interfere and take hegemony in Vietnam. You can read mere posts of Chinese guys on forum, they stated that Chinese hua control 70% our economy. In any case we don' let it happen.

Vietnamese are murderers ? if it should be, no Hua can exist to day in Vietnam.

Hua people like go to west or turn back home for better live, we don't care. When Minh Hương and his relatives like to get marriage with foreigners, we let they do base on law and regulation when our police don't find any evident for such cases are human trafficking business.

You are liar, if you are Minh Huong were a time in Vietnam you are traitor.

One more, who written such book "Bên thắng cuôc" he ís also man to kiss @ of Wests to make money, like Tzen Guangsheng or Wei Wei in China, it's trash.

 

[EastSea]

@Viet or anybody from Vietnam :
I need some information about Vietnam and i would be glad if you can support it with some source

- from where the Vietcong ( hope its not offensive ) pick up gorilla warfare ??? And any particular idol for that warfare technique ???
- which of the state heads of VN visited India ??? Anyone of them visited any particular place in "India - Maharashtra" ???

We used same weapons like Saigon Regim. It got a advantage that we could have supply locally (from our men in Saigon army)

 

[Wholegrain]

you just showed your true color.

we let your ancestors to live in Vietnam when they were poor and hunger, escaped from violation and famine in China. Ás human being we take care about you like our brothers.

But China govt used you as "Đội quân thứ 5" (number 5 army) to interfere and take hegemony in Vietnam. You can read mere posts of Chinese guys on forum, they stated that Chinese hua control 70% our economy. In any case we don' let it happen.

Vietnamese are murderers ? if it should be, no Hua can exist to day in Vietnam.

Hua people like go to west or turn back home for better live, we don't care. When Minh Hương and his relatives like to get marriage with foreigners, we let they do base on law and regulation when our police don't find any evident for such cases are human trafficking business.

You are liar, if you are Minh Huong were a time in Vietnam you are traitor.

One more, who written such book "Bên thắng cuôc" he ís also man to kiss @ of Wests to make money, like Tzen Guangsheng or Wei Wei in China, it's trash.

The trash shows his true feelings about southern Han in this post. All Hoa and Minh Huong in Vietnam are southern Han, Cantonese from Guangdong or people from Fujian. Not a single northerner or Mandarin native speaker. And his fellows like Battle of Bach Dang River claim Cantonese are Vietnamese brothers.

No Chinese fled to Vietnam because of famine or hunger. The ancestors of Minh Huong were refugees from the collapse of the Ming dynasty, and the Nguyen lords settled them and their Vietnamese wives on Cham and Khmer land in southern Vietnam and the Mekong Delta to keep Cham and Khmer under their control, so Champa and Cambodia could not take back southern Vietnam. The Nguyen also used Minh Huong to spy on China.

Vietnam and the Chinese Model

The Thanh Nhan are Chinese who came as merchants to Vietnam to trade during the Qing, and all the rest of the Hoa are Chinese merchants who came during French rule in Vietnam. There were no famine refugees or poor people. Those merchants controlled 70% of South Vietnam's economy before North Vietnam's invasion.

I simply tell you straightly to get the fxxk off my comments. Do you understand that???

What a p.o.s.

Too bad, you can't make me "fxxk off".

 

[EastSea]

idiots like you know nothing about history.

Since KMT was the official government, most of international support, including the ones from ussr went to KMT. After WWII, CPC indeed got a lot of weapons from the japs after its surrender, as well as a lot left by soviet in Northeast. However, that is after WWII, not during WWII.

KMT was the main force to defend against the japs well CPC was not. However, KMT was so corrupted, except a few, most battles were disastrous.

As for China's policy, well, we have tried our best to support both nk and vn then.

For nk, we have driven the u.s.-led u.n. forces back to the 38th line. However, by China national ability then with her GDP, production level, China could not push U.S. out of korea. U.S. production powers were hundreds of times over What China was then. A stalemate was the best China could achieve then.

As for vn, we have already tried our best to protect the north vn by threatening mass intervention if U.S. invaded north vn. So throughout the vn war, U.S. did not dare to do so. In addition, between the borders of the two, China sent all types of support to vn without interruption. China even trained most cadets in vn army. However, after U.S. withdrawal, what vn asked China was already beyond China's ability: China was near the end of 10-year culture revolution and her economy was in such a bad shape and there was no way for China to get involved into another war. So your indication that China intentionally wanted to divide korea, and vn was way off.

Anyway, there is not much to tell you. China will keep you at a leash. Just like what happened in the past thousands of years, China will teach you a hard lesson when you do not behave.

At the end of your post, you admitted what china did in the past and what you will do in future to against Vietnam, no need more comment. It's dirty policy.

 

[EastSea]

The trash shows his true feelings about southern Han in this post. All Hoa and Minh Huong in Vietnam are southern Han, Cantonese from Guangdong or people from Fujian. Not a single northerner or Mandarin native speaker. And his fellows like Battle of Bach Dang River claim Cantonese are Vietnamese brothers.

No Chinese fled to Vietnam because of famine or hunger. The ancestors of Minh Huong were refugees from the collapse of the Ming dynasty, and the Nguyen lords settled them and their Vietnamese wives on Cham and Khmer land in southern Vietnam and the Mekong Delta to keep Cham and Khmer under their control, so Champa and Cambodia could not take back southern Vietnam. The Nguyen also used Minh Huong to spy on China.

Vietnam and the Chinese Model

The Thanh Nhan are Chinese who came as merchants to Vietnam to trade during the Qing, and all the rest of the Hoa are Chinese merchants who came during French rule in Vietnam. There were no famine refugees or poor people. Those merchants controlled 70% of South Vietnam's economy before North Vietnam's invasion.



Too bad, you can't make me "fxxk off".

Cantonese or Nan Yue considered as "brother' by Mr. Battle is understood that there is "friendship" of two neighbors people shared in near by common border, it doesn't mean we shared same bloodline with you. Like what I said in my post above that in the past we have taken care about Cantonese refugees “like brothers” in the past.

Cantonese refugees were allocated first in Bien Hoa, Dong Nai, it is near of Saigon today. Same way was handled by Nguyen Lord to other newcomers from North Vietnam ỏr other North Vietnamese were moved to south after many army operation attacking in to North land .

Don't forgotten the war when Ming Dynasty army invaded in to Vietnam, there was bloody fighting in 10 years. our hero Le Loi regained our independence and founded Le Dynasty in Vietnam. Other than Cantonese refugees were organized elite troops of Ming Dynasty. Nguyen Lord could has his own reason to do that.

Cantonese came to Vietnam time to time, in small group or individual was not reported by media or not recorded by any document. it was 1,1 mill before 1975. Hua people did business to supply US army and ruled on retail market, when Vietnamese from both side were focused on fighting. then they got a big profit from Vietnam war.

 

[yue10]

Emperor Gia Long was the first Emperor of the Nguyễn Dynasty of Vietnam. There is now modern Vietnam in the world map. It is big deal.
Gia Long's rule was noted for its Confucian orthodoxy first, and he tolerated the activities of Roman Catholic missionaries. It' was smart policy in his time. if he could open our country for business with Wests, like Minji Emperor did in Japan's ...Vietnam could have another way to development.
Vietnam's Govt today is following discussion with Vatican to prevent any misunderstanding, or outbreak of violence base on religious conflicts or any reasons could happen.
The Hoa people came to Vietnam from many reasons, we let them chance to live here like our brothers. They were highly over represented in business and commerce sector before 1975.
Why Hua people ran out from Vietnam 1977, 1978 ? when China backed Khmer Rouge to attack Vietnam in Viet-Cambot border. China believed that, without Hua chinese, Vietnam will collapse. China played Hua people carte, as known "nan Jiao" to against Vietnam.
You came to Vietnam it was your willing, you go out is base on your willing. We let you go.
When you "chung chi" to take place on boat with benzil, foods... and other fee to human traffickers help you go out, you blamed that govt of Vietnam collect its.
When you went to border in north 1978, but China don't let you turn back your homeland. It's problem of Chinese. But we don't let you make noisy and violation there.
Chinese are traitors.

why do you keep using we? for the first wave of Ming loyalists you were too busy fighting amongst yourselves so you should be building altars and worshipping them or something because if it wasn't for them and Mac Cuu you people wouldn't have possession of the bustling region now, we all know the economic heart of Vietnam lies in the South not the sh1tty North with people who can't even speak properly, z z z everything so show a little gratitude and bow to your masters, as for the second wave they were solicited by the ruling French to act as the middle men so I don't know where 'we allowed' comes from

Everything can happen, even failure. But why shouldn´t Vietnam stay on Chinese model forever as Japanese system is proved as superior. Just look at the success and strength of Japan´s economy and military (excluded their war crimes).
Surely, it would be for Vietnam as the next major step, comparable to dropping Chinese writing characters and adopting latin 100 years ago, to alienate further from China. But I dopt Chinese would shed tears.
The Thai´s? do you want to insult us? If any, Vietnam looks at Eastern Asian countries for model.

the 'isolationist' model was one of the best periods Japan has ever experienced culturally, socially and economically but the only problem is that it was obviously not technologically forward, as for their success it wasn't because of any strength in strategy or policy that they weren't colonised but because they were 'lucky' enough to be inhabitants of a country that was so laughably scarce of any natural resources or exploitable factor endowments that there was no point in subjugating them in the traditional way, why else would they then try to 'liberate' Eastern Asia? I really don't know why these naive Vietnamese worship the Japanese so much when they were ready to sell you guys down the river in WWII, if the Americans weren't so determined to enter the war and decided to suspend the oil embargo and allow Japan to hold it's assets in China then you guys would have been sold like how your women are sold off today

the Thai model is a good model if you want to be dictated to by internationalist financiers, look closer and you will see the policies of the IMF and World Bank is reflected in not only their general economic policies but more specifically the targeting of the tourism industry, the 97 Asian financial crisis was all because of these imperialist who appeared under the guise of heroic financiers and forcing the capital controls to be eased then everything just went to sh!t

Cantonese considered as "brother' by Mr. Battle is understood that there is "friendship" of two neighbors people shared common border, it doesn't mean we shared same bloodline with you. Like what I said in my post above that in the past we have taken care about Cantonese refugees “like brothers” in the past.

Cantonese refugees were allocated first in Bien Hoa, Dong Nai, it is near of Saigon today. Same way was handled by Nguyen Lord to other newcomers from North Vietnam ỏr other North Vietnamese were moved to south after many army operation attacking in to North land .

Don't forgotten the war when Ming Dynasty army invaded in to Vietnam, there was bloody fighting in 10 years. our hero Le Loi regained our independence and founded Le Dynasty in Vietnam. Other than Cantonese refugees were organized elite troops of Ming Dynasty. Nguyen Lord could has his own reason to do that.

Cantonese came to Vietnam time to time, in small group or individual was not reported by media or not recorded by any document. it was 1,1 mill before 1975. Hua people did business to supply US army and ruled on retail market, when Vietnamese from both side were focused on fighting. then they got a big profit from Vietnam war.

why do you like to lie so much? I don't know who Mr Battle is but it's clear that from my interactions with the Vietnamese on other forums that whenever they claim they are brothers of the Cantonese it's based on a supposed genetic relationship not friendship, it all goes back to Vietnamese believing that they are part of Baiyue when in reality you guys were simply subordinates to the Zhuang at the time, like I said, in Dai Viet su luoc which was before the Ming occupation Vietnamese history begins with Zhao Tuo's reign later when the Le took power it was in Dai Viet su ky toan thu that history begins with the Hung Kings

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

^^man. I don't know who you're, sound like you're from southern Vietnamese to me. your knowleg of Eastern Asia impress me.