History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

[itsanufy]

@ Baibars_1260 , hats off man, even I don't have this much details, you know our history really well.

 

[peagle]

I assumed your statements to be in chronological order. You talked about 1969 riots and then followed by Nehru writing the letter. Be clear from next time.

I have a history of communication with Baibars, and my communication was with him only.
But, it is a public forum, so I can accept someone less knowledgeable of our discussion history might not understand.

India was militarily weak in 1962, as we under-invested in military till then believing that we could live in peace with our neighbors. We can say that we were fooled by the Chinese and genuinely thought Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai.
So, yes, it was wise of Nehru to swallow his pride and ask Ayub Khan to not attack India when it was dealing with Chinese.

I am glad you accept that Pakistan helped India, although India was weak and it's all Chinese fault etc etc is very hard to swallow. India lost, and Pakistan helped by not attacking India. The least Pakistan could expect is reciprocity, Pakistan did not get that, that's wrong. But, it's history, in the interest of looking forward, we are willing to put all that behind us.
But all parties need to look forward, not just one.

As I mentioned earlier, let's not continue this discussion here.
Please let the Bengalis have their discussion. Thank you.

There are no recorded instances of rape by the Indian army of West Pakistani women in Bangladesh .
My response was to a boast by one of your countrymen that the Indian army had raped Pakistani women.
Manekshaw's directive however is suspicious and as to why it was even needed, No such directive has been given by any COAS ever since in all operations including the IPKF campaign in Sri Lanka ( the only other large scale deployment of Indian armed forces on foreign territory) or various peacekeeping operations under UN auspices,

@Apprentice
It would be interesting to get your views on the topic in the post above, thank you.

 

[magra]

I have a history of communication with Baibars, and my communication was with him only.
But, it is a public forum, so I can accept someone less knowledgeable of our discussion history might not understand.

I am glad you accept that Pakistan helped India, although India was weak and it's all Chinese fault etc etc is very hard to swallow. India lost, and Pakistan helped by not attacking India. The least Pakistan could expect is reciprocity, Pakistan did not get that, that's wrong. But, it's history, in the interest of looking forward, we are willing to put all that behind us.
But all parties need to look forward, not just one.

As I mentioned earlier, let's not continue this discussion here.
Please let the Bengalis have their discussion. Thank you.

I do have a few counterpoints to make but sure we can have the discussion at another place and time.

 

[Baibars_1260]

@ Baibars_1260 , hats off man, even I don't have this much details, you know our history really well.

Thank you,
For the record I always make this statement on any Bangladesh thread.
I respect the Bengali language.
I respect the sentiments of the Bangladeshi people with respect to their cultural and linguistic identity.
I respect Bangladesh as a sovereign independent nation.

With no offense intended I am also very enamored of West Bengali, cultural heritage.

 

[VikingRaider]

It took Vietnam decades to defeat US and millions of lives lost. Did you want to be waiting till 1990s for independence?

Nice try ! Since 90% - 95 % war was already won by freedom fighters , so I am unable to understand why we would have to wait till 1990s for independence? It's an old propaganda of India , So try again!

 

[VikingRaider]

Do you want any help in rigging your next election?

No thank you . We just want Indian influence finished once and for all. And the process has been started. Just wait and see!

 

[Baibars_1260]

@peagle @magra

I think we have deviated way beyond what this thread was intended. I am surprised the mods haven't locked it yet.

This thread was intended to discuss if India looted West Pakistani assets in Bangladesh after 1971.

Let's recap.

My own assessment is no, India did not loot anything other than war trophies such as General Niazi's Mercedes Benz.
Pakistan mostly destroyed, disabled or took away 90% of its assets. Example: All PIA and civilian aircraft, rotary and fixed wing, other than a small STOL communications aircraft were flown out through various routes often through Burma or refueling via Sri Lanka.

The videos of the surrender ceremony are themselves indicative of the weapons deposited .
These are a motley group of World War 2 era Sten Guns, ancient .455 revolvers and a few ancient pistols .
Pakistan had partially converted to a mix of G3, and AK 47 rifles with some M1 Garands and SKS still in service. The MB and police were using SMLE 0.303 rifles along with a few Ishapore FAL rifles ( from India). It is likely that the original modern weapons had been spirited away for self protection or destroyed. The weapons surrendered were for optics only.
Since the PA were allowed to retain their small arms almost a week after the official surrender they had plenty of time to render them useless after formally moving to
a POW camp.

I touched on a different type of "looting" where the Pakistani community preferred to deliver consumer durable assets to the Indian army in exchange for the safety of internment and reparation.

Bangladeshis would have their point of view and the discussion should be centered around what they perceive.
That is my two cents to this thread.

 

[peagle]

@peagle @magra

I think we have deviated way beyond what this thread was intended. I am surprised the mods haven't locked it yet.

This thread was intended to discuss if India looted West Pakistani assets in Bangladesh after 1971.

Let's recap.

My own assessment is no, India did not loot anything other than war trophies such as General Niazi's Mercedes Benz.
Pakistan mostly destroyed, disabled or took away 90% of its assets. Example: All PIA and civilian aircraft, rotary and fixed wing, other than a small STOL communications aircraft were flown out through various routes often through Burma or refueling via Sri Lanka.

The videos of the surrender ceremony are themselves indicative of the weapons deposited .
These are a motley group of World War 2 era Sten Guns, ancient .455 revolvers and a few ancient pistols .
Pakistan had partially converted to a mix of G3, and AK 47 rifles with some M1 Garands and SKS still in service. The MB and police were using SMLE 0.303 rifles along with a few Ishapore FAL rifles ( from India). It is likely that the original modern weapons had been spirited away for self protection or destroyed. The weapons surrendered were for optics only.
Since the PA were allowed to retain their small arms almost a week after the official surrender they had plenty of time to render them useless after formally moving to
a POW camp.

I touched on a different type of "looting" where the Pakistani community preferred to deliver consumer durable assets to the Indian army in exchange for the safety of internment and reparation.

Bangladeshis would have their point of view and the discussion should be centered around what they perceive.
That is my two cents to this thread.

I have already declared my intention not to participate in this thread anymore, so I will not be contributing anymore.

Although I think you are wrong in your conclusions in so many ways, as with the consumer consumables, your conclusion here also does not make sense and lacks weightage.

 

[KedarT]

No thank you . We just want Indian influence finished once and for all. And the process has been started. Just wait and see!

Do you mean Bollywood or the general cultural influence or the economic influence?

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Do you mean Bollywood or the general cultural influence or the economic influence?

Political.

 

[VikingRaider]

Do you mean Bollywood or the general cultural influence or the economic influence?

Influence on our politics.

 

[magra]

Nice try ! Since 90% - 95 % war was already won by freedom fighters , so I am unable to understand why we would have to wait till 1990s for independence? It's an old propaganda of India , So try again!

What credible, neutral source you have to prove that 90% of BD was already liberated before Dec 3rd?

No thank you . We just want Indian influence finished once and for all. And the process has been started. Just wait and see!

Good luck.

 

[Bilal9]

Do you mean Bollywood or the general cultural influence or the economic influence?

Everything. Period.

jamati terrorists dont know benefits of liberation from rape, murder, slavery .we liberated you from rape , murder, looting ,exploitation , slavery .

Is that all you have? Jamati? Terrorist?

Try to argue logically rather than calling people personal names.

 

[CatSultan]

Excellent thread. I'm glad that BD didn't become a satellite state of India which was the ultimate goal of Indira Gandhi. Again two nation theory was vandicated and another Islamic country at India's border was born,

Bangladesh is not an Islamic country. Its a secular country

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh is not an Islamic country. Its a secular country

Wrong.

I don't know if they changed it, but the constitution still starts with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim". Maybe @Al-zakir bhai knows. There was an attempt made by a Hindu India-Shill Minister (Suranjit Sen Gupta) at one point to drop it. He tabled the motion AFAIK.

The trend of Islamization in Bangladesh among the new generation (X,Y) compared to millennials has actually increased. They still respect other religions, but one should not make the mistake of saying they are getting more westernized like Indians are (for example). They are getting more modern on their own terms (a la Malaysians and Indonesians), and not aping the West like Indians do.

To demonstrate this in an overt way, here is how most millennial Bangladeshi women dress nowadays - practicing modest Islamic fashion trends. I'd say, looking at videos and such, I see this more prevalent in Bangladesh than Pakistani upper class or upper middle class women nowadays.

Of course there are non-Hijabi Bangladeshi Muslim women, but nowadays, one can easily tell among Bangladeshi women who is Hindu and who is Muslim. Twenty years ago, aping Hindu traditions were more prevalent and you could not tell women apart like this.