History about My people

[Kaniska]

You're right. I do use the P word liberally, probably because until I few years ago, I didn't see myself as anything other than British because of how mix I am. But I took time and went through all my heritages and connect with them. But because growing up in a house where slurs were common, such as p@kis which my dad used against fresh of the boat Pakistanis who refused to integrate, or Chinamen for Asians who came after the handover when tens of thousands of Hong Kong Chinese came to UK, it became normal to say those terms. And you have to know, my dad didn't grow up in a Pakistani community, he grew up in a small village outside of Glasgow where even till this day, there are only 3 non white non Christian families, one of them being ours. He didn't see himself as Pakistani or Afghan, he saw himself as British. And the same goes for me.

Let's not pretend that punjabis don't have ethnic slur names for sindhis or pakhtuns, or that pakhtuns do t have ethnic slurs for punjabis or balochis. You all do it aswell. I've heard it here within the Pakistani community.

I apologise if I came off as aggressive, but when elders on this forum forget where there place is, it's becomes my responsibility to put them back where they belong. Age doesn't give you respect, your character gives you respect.

But thanks for the honest and respectful comment.

Mate...Your points may have been valid...But being an outside i know that my Pakistani friend will not like me if i say **** to him...So stop using the word and continue to post about the real topic for which post was created

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Well they weren't Tamil, thats for sure.

No reason to hate them though. They layered so much in Tamil culture and history and all around it too.

MGR himself did quite well (imo) as famous pallava king in famous (though a financial flop) movie of its time...do you know it? Heart tugging song "oru kodiyil, iru malargal"

Hope you have read the famous kalki novel too.

Both revolve around Kanchi, the pallava capital....we Tamils know Kanchi only too well to this day....when we aren't busy contemplating the true size of Mahabalipuram.

====================

Extremists are extremists though...they will never be satisfied till they write everything out of existence altogether...just to be left alone with their ego.

If you are.talking of Ponniyin Selvan, take a second look on my user name. It's one of my fav ever.
I would by middle Pallavas they had become Tamils by intermarrying. Most of their edicts are in Sanksrit and Tamil.

I am not sure if you know of the latest historical work on Tamil Nadu by a vibrant school of young scholars who have been turning conventional thinking about Tamil history upside down. You will get a series of shocks if you read them; they are of the opinion that there was no period of the Kalabras! If you are interested, I will send you references.

That is new. Kindly quote it the book or reference. Thanks.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you are.talking of Ponniyin Selvan, take a second look on my user name. It's one of my fav ever.
I would by middle Pallavas they had become Tamils by intermarrying. Most of their edicts are in Sanksrit and Tamil.



That is new. Kindly quote it the book or reference. Thanks.

SOCIAL FORMATIONS OF EARLY SOUTH INDIA
by
RAJAN GURUKKAL.

Please read the last paragraph of his preface, and his notes and references for each essay, and you will get an unparalleled insight into the kind of historical analysis going on in contemporary Indian historical studies.

 

[Mr Happy]

Sorry, my fault; I was writing for the north Indians and the Pakistanis.

These are the mysterious set of people who came in with the Sakas (Scythians to the western world, people living outside the borders, who also lived within the Achaemenid Empire in Sogdia); their exact ethnicity is unknown. Some scholars say that they are related to the Parthians ultimately, and that their name should be rendered 'Pahlava'; there are other scholars who trace a tenuous connection to the Tamilian/South Indian dynasty that built the Rock Temples, the Pallava. These are all under dispute, and I have always been very uncertain about this tribe. The ones who came in with the Sakas were Indo-Iranian without any doubt; they were swept out of Sogdiana and Bactria, which they had occupied in their first flight from the onrushing Tocharians under their rulers, the Moon Tribe, the Kushana.

So, there is speculation that the Pallavas of Tamil Nadu might have been connected to the Saka-Pallava, but it is not proven, and most scholars specialised in south Indian history reject it.



Glasgow made me nervous; Edinburgh did not. All in all, I preferred the Highlands - Inverness, Fort St. George - to these two cities. For one thing, like mountain folk the world over, the Highlander has exquisite manners and a natural courtesy that owes nothing to schooling, and enormous, welcoming hearts for weary travellers. Bless them.



Slovenia and their version of the Alps is on my bucket list.

The z

SOCIAL FORMATIONS OF EARLY SOUTH INDIA
by
RAJAN GURUKKAL.

Please read the last paragraph of his preface, and his notes and references for each essay, and you will get an unparalleled insight into the kind of historical analysis going on in contemporary Indian historical studies.

Assalamu Alaykum Joe Shearer,

You seem to have interest in history which is good.

 

[terry5]

I once met your Dar ul Uloom. Very nice guys. Had pleasure of eating some salt fish, beans and rice, great cane, and juice while I was there.,

If you are originally from Ponch, have you ever been to Pakistan recently brother?

How is Ramazan going in Jamaica? You limin mon?



Ey thread da kee faida ey? Hon vi mannu maloom vi ni, ey addi takk kyu kholla ey.

PDF hallat de vary, pata ni hassey ya rowey.

yes very nice brothers , where you at the conference last year ? Trinidad ??

I’ve been to Pakistan of course was there in 2018 as my family lives there .
originally from IOK (poonch,district meander) and still have family and land there .

My father and uncle to the Caribbean many many years ago and set up a tyre business and since we have branched out to other businesses here mainly tourism related .

alhumdullillah Ramadan is being observed and have no complains other than mangoes are a bit late this year lol we’re all waiting for them to fill up and drop .

 

[Joe Shearer]

The z



Assalamu Alaykum Joe Shearer,

You seem to have interest in history which is good.

Wa 'alaykumu s Salaam, @Pashtuni, if you will permit me to use that greeting. Yes, I read history 50 years ago, got a high second class, and have maintained a contact with the subject ever since.

 

[Mr Happy]

Wa 'alaykumu s Salaam, @Pashtuni, if you will permit me to use that greeting. Yes, I read history 50 years ago, got a high second class, and have maintained a contact with the subject ever since.

I dnt understand the part "if you permit".

There is always room for improvement. The Indo-Aryan people and Iranian people have had contact for a long time because they were previously together as Indo-Iranians. I am Muslim. However, I confirm that the language of the Vedas is ancient.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I dnt understand the part "if you permit".

There are some people in western UP who prefer Hindus not to use that greeting. They would rather that we said 'Aadaab arz'. They are not violent about it or anything, but it makes them uncomfortable; also using the word 'Sahib' to a Hindu or Sikh, and changing the earlier 'Khuda hafeez' to 'Allah hafeez'.

There is always room for improvement. The Indo-Aryan people and Iranian people have had contact for a long time because they were one tribe previously. I am Muslim. However, I confirm that the language of the Vedas is ancient.

Indeed. That is your legacy as much as it is mine, as you belong to the older branch, the Indo-Iranian branch, both by language and ethnicity, and my language is derived, but not my ethnicity, from the younger branch, that broke away and spoke Indo-Aryan in the very early days of the break.

That is also when names reversed, when Daiva and Ahura for the malevolent and the divine got transformed into Deva, meaning divinity, and Asura, meaning malevolent semi-divine being.

 

[Mr Happy]

There are some people in western UP who prefer Hindus not to use that greeting. They would rather that we said 'Aadaab arz'. They are not violent about it or anything, but it makes them uncomfortable; also using the word 'Sahib' to a Hindu or Sikh, and changing the earlier 'Khuda hafeez' to 'Allah hafeez'.



Indeed. That is your legacy as much as it is mine, as you belong to the older branch, the Indo-Iranian branch, both by language and ethnicity, and my language is derived, but not my ethnicity, from the younger branch, that broke away and spoke Indo-Aryan in the very early days of the break.

That is also when names reversed, when Daiva and Ahura for the malevolent and the divine got transformed into Deva, meaning divinity, and Asura, meaning malevolent semi-divine being.

The greeting "Assalamu Alaykum" is used for Muslims. That is correct.

I will tell you something. It's to share information. I am Pakhtun or Pashtun ethno-racially. Pakhtuns and Pashtuns are formed from Iranian tribes.

If you dnt me asking which part of the world are you from?

 

[Gibbs]

Was watching somewhat afar.

It is too bad that it meandered to all kind of language...but @Salahuddin Ayyubi is correct he had his right to stand his ground against the snarky insinuations instigated from certain mob-leaders here.

He is young in the ways of the Force, he will hopefully temper well and become a valuable voice/perspective in this forum with time. I would implore mods to not ban him.

Sometimes it takes members time to find the best way, road of resilient sagacity here...where you simply tell the mob what it dreads the most to hear: you have no power over what I say, what I think and what I am....rather than resort to fighting the mob on terms it much prefers (so it can then ask for intervention from wrench-wielders here).

The words used right at start: I know who I am, you or no one can tell me otherwise!...you mean nothing to me! were the better edifice to launch arrows (incl the ID card reveal at the right moment) from IMO....rather than resort to controversial language (whatever the status of re-appropriation is in various areas and contexts for those words).

But the thread in itself again illustrates the psyche complex at play....those who seek to control a certain narrative completely and silence/discredit all voices that don't fit neatly into it.

From what i have gathered from this thread, He has quite a knowledge of the subject matter, Brash but i think one of these goons proclaiming here to be savior of Pan Islamism needed to put in his place.. Glad he did it, Mods seems have given quite a leeway for that goon to spread his hate of others in his subtle and unsubtle ways on any one that doesn't fit in to his sectarian narrative

 

[bananarepublic]

Sorry, my fault; I was writing for the north Indians and the Pakistanis.

These are the mysterious set of people who came in with the Sakas (Scythians to the western world, people living outside the borders, who also lived within the Achaemenid Empire in Sogdia); their exact ethnicity is unknown. Some scholars say that they are related to the Parthians ultimately, and that their name should be rendered 'Pahlava'; there are other scholars who trace a tenuous connection to the Tamilian/South Indian dynasty that built the Rock Temples, the Pallava. These are all under dispute, and I have always been very uncertain about this tribe. The ones who came in with the Sakas were Indo-Iranian without any doubt; they were swept out of Sogdiana and Bactria, which they had occupied in their first flight from the onrushing Tocharians under their rulers, the Moon Tribe, the Kushana.

So, there is speculation that the Pallavas of Tamil Nadu might have been connected to the Saka-Pallava, but it is not proven, and most scholars specialised in south Indian history reject it.



Glasgow made me nervous; Edinburgh did not. All in all, I preferred the Highlands - Inverness, Fort St. George - to these two cities. For one thing, like mountain folk the world over, the Highlander has exquisite manners and a natural courtesy that owes nothing to schooling, and enormous, welcoming hearts for weary travellers. Bless them.



Slovenia and their version of the Alps is on my bucket list.

I have meet many people witht the family name "saka" interestingly they are probably the longest known people to live in the region of Gilgit-Baltistan
But then again there are numerous ethnicities here that researcher's are still puzzled to where they originates

 

[Joe Shearer]

The greeting "Assalamu Alaykum" is used for Muslims. That is correct.

I will tell you something. It's to share information. I am Pakhtun or Pashtun ethno-racially. Pakhtuns and Pashtuns are formed from Iranian tribes.

I understand that. My first book on this ethnicity was The Pathans by Olaf Caroe, who was a great admirer of the Pakhtun. However, it is rather dated; I have not had an opportunity to catch up with the latest academic thinking about this subject.

Do you know that Indo-Iranian and Proto-Indo-European is still spoken today?

In a sense. PIE was a reconstruction; nobody knows what it was originally. Indo-Iranian was represented soon after the divide by three and a half languages: Eastern, Central and Western Old Iranian, and Avestan. I am writing this from memory, and the nomenclature of the three branches may be wrong. From that point, there has been tremendous development of Iranian, through a middle period and a modern period to arrive at Modern Iranian.

The closest to PIE is thought to be Lett, spoken by the Latvians on the shores of the Baltic.

I have meet many people witht the family name "saka" interestingly they are probably the longest known people to live in the region of Gilgit-Baltistan
But then again there are numerous ethnicities here that researcher's are still puzzled to where they originates

Fascinating. I wish I knew more. @WAJsal should know more, but I rarely see him nowadays.

Gilgit, not so much Baltistan, is a melting pot; as you said, sorting out the ancestry thread by intermingled thread is a major project for a whole team of DNA specialists, and I frankly doubt that they can succeed anyway.

Baltistan is a much simpler proposition.

 

[Mr Happy]

I understand that. My first book on this ethnicity was The Pathans by Olaf Caroe, who was a great admirer of the Pakhtun. However, it is rather dated; I have not had an opportunity to catch up with the latest academic thinking about this subject.



In a sense. PIE was a reconstruction; nobody knows what it was originally. Indo-Iranian was represented soon after the divide by three and a half languages: Eastern, Central and Western Old Iranian, and Avestan. I am writing this from memory, and the nomenclature of the three branches may be wrong. From that point, there has been tremendous development of Iranian, through a middle period and a modern period to arrive at Modern Iranian.

The closest to PIE is thought to be Lett, spoken by the Latvians on the shores of the Baltic.

Proto-Indo-European is actually quite accurate in some aspects.

I will give you an example:

We use this in our language. Do you know what "sparti" means?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Proto-Indo-European is actually quite accurate in some aspects.

I will give you an example:

We use this in our language. Do you know what "sparti" means?

No. What does it mean?

 

[Mr Happy]

No. What does it mean?

Ok. I will tell you.

Pera- Proto-Indo-European.
Meaning to grant, allot.

Proto-Indo-European suffixed form par-ti.
Derivatives: impart, part, etc.

We use it like this: sparti, or
Parti sparti.
[We use it in the sense when people are allocated in an army].

(S)parti. So, there is a form with and without "s".

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/roots.aspx?type=Indo-European&root=perə-