Heartbreaking - Pakistan's Hidden Shame.

[Indus Pakistan]

People cant even imagine the beauty of 70s Quetta. All the major streets were decorated with mulberry (shahtoot) and pine trees and we kids, while going to School and or on our way back would eat mulberries from those trees. There were no crimes, all ethnicities and sects used to live in complete harmony. The first thing those barbarians did was to cut the trees, followed by buying houses and businesses with the plenty of black money they brought with them. Many local Pathan and Baloch went out of business because of the rampant smuggling. I curse Zia for him brining in these thugs and got my beautiful country destroyed in the process. The worst part is, whenever you talk against this menace, it is automatically assumed that a) you are a Urdu speaker, and b) a racist. Whereas non-Urdu speakers have suffered most in the hands of these Afghan butchers. It is sad that even after losing 60K innocent Pakistanis in the hands of this scourge, we are not ready to address this problem. It is possible that one day sun will rise from the west but that the Afghans will change their ways, it is not going to happen. Their culture and their society, it is all about destruction. Look at their history, what is there in Afghanistan? Can they name any prominent poet, or philosopher, or writer, anything? Why? why such a huge scarcity of art and civilization? because this is not their culture. A tribal society that lives on invading the neighbors and loot does not produce poets and writers and philosophers.

With comments like this you will get war .....
Lot of people in fact use this Afghan thing to also hit the native people of this country and you know it ...

 

[syedali73]

With comments like this you will get war .....
Lot of people in fact use this Afghan thing to also hit the native people of this country and you know it ...

War? why? because no counter-arguments? This is the hallmark of barbarians, they solve their issues through war and not dialogue hence Afghanistan is a shit hole and will remain one for eons. I wish the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan could be sealed like how Zulqarnain had erected the wall between Iran and Yajooj Majooj.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

War? why? because no counter-arguments? This is the hallmark of barbarians, they solve their issues through war and not dialogue hence Afghanistan is a shit hole and will remain one for eons. I wish the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan could be sealed like how Zulqarnain had erected the wall between Iran and Yajooj Majooj.

You overlook history. The Soviet war of 1980s etc. The great game by imperialists ? When the Europeans call Pakistan a savage, impoverished, terrorist haven, dirty, filthy over populated misogynist place all of which is true. Can it be taken to arrive at conclusions like Pakistani are inherantly inferior?

Because that is exactly the sort of mentality your espousing any you have the galls to even use the word 'civilized' ?

 

[Adecypher]

Look at their history, what is there in Afghanistan? Can they name any prominent poet, or philosopher, or writer, anything? Why? why such a huge scarcity of art and civilization?

Syed Bhai they do have prominent poets some of them are listed here. Indeed, it is very unfortunate for Afghanistan to lose its cultural legacy amid continuous chaos due to wars from Soviet Invasion till today (Remembering 1960s Afghanistan). My point was not to argue against the societal fallacies they brought with themselves but to stress not to put the "whole cultural and historic" legacy of a Country into same bucket.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Jungibaaz @Atanz Ali is correct about all of this shit it's the most disgusting practice widespread in Afghanistan,Rise of Taliban is some time attributed to that fact also"when a tribal leader married a boy and did invited huge number os peoples to attend valima" this made Mullah's furious.I have personally seen this shit in Afghan camps from where you kids are supplied in Pakistan

http://edge.********.com/80281E/u/u/thumbs/2013/Jun/13/20580e36d8ec_sf_7.jpg

Bacha Bazi: An Afghan Tragedy | Foreign Policy
Our Tribal and Pashtun brothers have problems but they are not mentally sick as a nation.
All type of moral crimes are increasing in Pakistan from Girls going to college ending up dating, to losing honor, and then after being blackmailed, ending up committing suicide.Not only call girls culture but Shemale for s** are also widely available for prostitution in capital and to much surprise shemale have double charges then a girl.All kind of drugs are easily available, some uni's are a true shit hole and abuse to our culture and values but in all this you will never find Police to catch culprits.

 

[syedali73]

You overlook history. The Soviet war of 1980s etc. The great game by imperialists ? When the Europeans call Pakistan a savage, impoverished, terrorist haven, dirty, filthy over populated misogynist place all of which is true. Can it be taken to arrive at conclusions like Pakistani are inherantly inferior?

Because that is exactly the sort of mentality your espousing any you have the galls to even use the word 'civilized' ?

There is a clear difference between the two. Pakistan was not like this before 1980s whereas Afghanistan has always been like this throughout her history.

Syed Bhai they do have prominent poets some of them are listed here. Indeed, it is very unfortunate for Afghanistan to lose its cultural legacy amid continuous chaos due to wars from Soviet Invasion till today (Remembering 1960s Afghanistan). My point was not to argue against the societal fallacies they brought with themselves but to stress not to put the "whole cultural and historic" legacy of a Country into same bucket.

Few names are there indeed but looking at the length of the history of Afghanistan, they are too few compared to neighboring countries with the similar age of history.

@Jungibaaz @Atanz Ali is correct about all of this shit it's the most disgusting practice widespread in Afghanistan,Rise of Taliban is some time attributed to that fact also"when a tribal leader married a boy and did invited huge number os peoples to attend valima" this made Mullah's furious.I have personally seen this shit in Afghan camps from where you kids are supplied in Pakistan

Bacha Bazi: An Afghan Tragedy | Foreign Policy
Our Tribal and Pashtun brothers have problems but they are not mentally sick as a nation.
All type of moral crimes are increasing in Pakistan from Girls going to college ending up dating, to losing honor, and then after being blackmailed, ending up committing suicide.Not only call girls culture but Shemale for s** are also widely available for prostitution in capital and to much surprise shemale have double charges then a girl.All kind of drugs are easily available, some uni's are a true shit hole and abuse to our culture and values but in all this you will never find Police to catch culprits.

The only point I am trying to make here is that Afghan infiltration has acted as catalyst in the deterioration of Pakistani society and this catalyst needs to be taken out before this society gets collapsed completely.

Give you an example here. You might have noticed that I was away from PDF from Thursday until yesterday. I was hospitalized for severe dehydration. Somehow I got food poisoning and it was so severe that I was visiting bathroom every 10-15 minutes. After two days, situation was so bad that ambulance was to be called upon and I ended up in ICU for one day, and shifted to nephrology ward thereafter, for my kidney function was severely affected. I was put on saline drip continuously for 72 hours and my entire body fluid was first replenished (for the loss) and then replaced in order to purge any bacteria/toxins present in the system. My entire digestive system was also purged thoroughly and for three continuous days. With this, Doctors were finally able to make my kidneys back to function otherwise I was on the row of dialysis for both kreatinine and urea were 10 times that of normal concentration in my blood, indicative of severe kidney function impairment. Once the purging was completed, I was then infused with antibiotics and drugs to restore my kidney function.

Moral of the story is, they could have not restored my kidney function unless the underlying cause, the bacteria/toxins were present in the blood. If we have to fix our society, we have to first remove these toxins that are primary source of problem, only then can we go on and fix things at the upper level.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Jungi, Afghans have not changed a bit in thousands of years and they will never change no matter what. They are calling this unfortunate place their home for over 30 years now (tribal/FATA people are with us for 70+ years), instead of them changing or assimilating for good, they have changed the social fabric of Pakistan, literally transformed a peaceful highly progressive society into a Afghanistan-like shit hole where criminals thrive. Not sure where you belong to but I hail from Quetta and a first hand witness of destruction these savages brought to Quetta. A hill station that was once dubbed as 'little London' is transformed into a kachra kundi littered with Afghans. You may have hope but what I have seen and experienced first hand between 1978-1997 (until I left), I have no hope that these barbarians could possibly be brought into mainstream and cajoled to adopt civilization.

The title should be 'Afghan shame', that they smuggled together with their pathetic selves into Pakistan that is now resulting in a bad name for Pakistan.

I hear you. I too have witnessed this first hand. The Afghan community has huge issues, general poverty, general backwardness, involvement in everything from petty crime, to militancy, to gang warfare, to drug trade. They bring their own host of social issues like this one. They have had a huge impact on a lot of major cities. I've come across many Afghans who've done nothing but spew venom against Pakistan, the state that hosted them in their need.

But, these people are refugees, they escaped one war after the other. This country has not been at peace since 1979. Is it no wonder then what kinds of generations have been raised? Where I hail from is a mess of places, but I get what you're saying. I get that they've failed. But 'dealing' with them in this way will only be ineffective, harsh and morally wrong.

There are people who have been here now long enough to be called citizens. You have lived abroad so have I, I can't say whether you agree with me, but these people have taught me humanity. I can't hold this double standard, wishing to live here while some here are weary of the presence of my kind, and then at the same time call for all Afghans to be kicked out indiscriminately.

Lastly, I'd ask, how do you plan to get rid of people who own land, who own businesses, make up communities, in their millions, including those who've integrated? How do you keep them out? Where do you send them off to, and how do you do so even by the laws of our own country? How do you stop the drug trade? It's all well to say, we simply kick them out. But managing inflow of goods, people and all other things on God's green earth on that border is impossible.

Now, that brings me on to one thing I've been talking about for a long time. That border needs to be sealed, even if it takes tens of billions of dollars, it will be pittance in comparison to the cost of the open border. It is my opinion that this border has probably cost us directly and indirectly, tens of billions at the least, accumulate over the years.

The only point I am trying to make here is that Afghan infiltration has acted as catalyst in the deterioration of Pakistani society and this catalyst needs to be taken out before this society gets collapsed completely.

No doubt, no-one here should doubt that a lot of these problems you've pointed out are valid. But the solution, I differ with you on.

 

[macnurv]

People cant even imagine the beauty of 70s Quetta. All the major streets were decorated with mulberry (shahtoot) and pine trees and we kids, while going to School and or on our way back would eat mulberries from those trees. There were no crimes, all ethnicities and sects used to live in complete harmony. The first thing those barbarians did was to cut the trees, followed by buying houses and businesses with the plenty of black money they brought with them. Many local Pathan and Baloch went out of business because of the rampant smuggling. I curse Zia for him brining in these thugs and got my beautiful country destroyed in the process. The worst part is, whenever you talk against this menace, it is automatically assumed that a) you are a Urdu speaker, and b) a racist. Whereas non-Urdu speakers have suffered most in the hands of these Afghan butchers. It is sad that even after losing 60K innocent Pakistanis in the hands of this scourge, we are not ready to address this problem. It is possible that one day sun will rise from the west but that the Afghans will change their ways, it is not going to happen. Their culture and their society, it is all about destruction. Look at their history, what is there in Afghanistan? Can they name any prominent poet, or philosopher, or writer, anything? Why? why such a huge scarcity of art and civilization? because this is not their culture. A tribal society that lives on invading the neighbors and loot does not produce poets and writers and philosophers.

I have to agree with everything you said, I remember the Quetta I grew up in a tranquil and mostly peaceful city, where people genuinely cared for each other, not a very modern city but also not a backwater. There was a time when you met a Quetta resident outside of the city you will be able to find an indirect connection to them with a common friend.
These Afghans were also Pashtoo speaking and during the whole soviet invasion these people had sympathies of Pakistanis, but look where we are left thanks to these people. I have no love for these people, as I have witnessed first hand how these thankless goons lived and destroyed Pakistan from the inside. I don't care about their cultural achievements, which are minimum to begin with. They have a tribalistic mindset which remain unchanged for centuries, these are people who should be left to each other till they are ready to join the modern world and not the stone age in which they exist.

With comments like this you will get war .....
Lot of people in fact use this Afghan thing to also hit the native people of this country and you know it ...

Arent we already in a war thanks to these people? So which new war are you talking of?

You overlook history. The Soviet war of 1980s etc. The great game by imperialists ? When the Europeans call Pakistan a savage, impoverished, terrorist haven, dirty, filthy over populated misogynist place all of which is true. Can it be taken to arrive at conclusions like Pakistani are inherantly inferior?

Because that is exactly the sort of mentality your espousing any you have the galls to even use the word 'civilized' ?

There is no comparison between the two, and which great game are you talking about because the one I remember was not in 1980's but early late 19th and early 20th century between Tsar Russia and European empires. I haven't reached my conclusions based on stupid TV shows or movies, but by living and witnessing these peoples behaviour with their countrymen and outsiders.

I hear you. I too have witnessed this first hand. The Afghan community has huge issues, general poverty, general backwardness, involvement in everything from petty crime, to militancy, to gang warfare, to drug trade. They bring their own host of social issues like this one. They have had a huge impact on a lot of major cities. I've come across many Afghans who've done nothing but spew venom against Pakistan, the state that hosted them in their need.

But, these people are refugees, they escaped one war after the other. This country has not been at peace since 1979. Is it no wonder then what kinds of generations have been raised? Where I hail from is a mess of places, but I get what you're saying. I get that they've failed. But 'dealing' with them in this way will only be ineffective, harsh and morally wrong.

There are people who have been here now long enough to be called citizens. You have lived abroad so have I, I can't say whether you agree with me, but these people have taught me humanity. I can't hold this double standard, wishing to live here while some here are weary of the presence of my kind, and then at the same time call for all Afghans to be kicked out indiscriminately.

Lastly, I'd ask, how do you plan to get rid of people who own land, who own businesses, make up communities, in their millions, including those who've integrated? How do you keep them out? Where do you send them off to, and how do you do so even by the laws of our own country? How do you stop the drug trade? It's all well to say, we simply kick them out. But managing inflow of goods, people and all other things on God's green earth on that border is impossible.

Now, that brings me on to one thing I've been talking about for a long time. That border needs to be sealed, even if it takes tens of billions of dollars, it will be pittance in comparison to the cost of the open border. It is my opinion that this border has probably cost us directly and indirectly, tens of billions at the least, accumulate over the years.



No doubt, no-one here should doubt that a lot of these problems you've pointed out are valid. But the solution, I differ with you on.

Yes it is a tough question with an answer many of us wont like but we don't have a choice. We helped these people in their time of need hoping that one day they can go back to their country. When you have a guest in your house, there are certain etiquettes that are expected of him to follow but when your guest not only starts to curse you but try to burn your house it is about time that guest needs to be kicked out. These people have long past the welcome, and now its time they are returned to their country. Nationality is not a simple matter, just by owning a passport one does not become a citizen of a country but apart from that the laws on nationality vary from country to country.
The human inside me does not wish for these people to suffer, but the suffering of my countrymen on hands of these people is not tolerable for me as well, so I am forced to choose the lesser of two evils.
The biggest problem with Pakistan and its people are to never learn from history.

 

[Kolachi Punjabi]

With comments like this you will get war .....
Lot of people in fact use this Afghan thing to also hit the native people of this country and you know it ...

What's with this native vs non-native BS i keep reading about on these boards, anybody born and raised in Pakistan is no less a native no matter where there origins may be from.

 

[waleed3601]

Keep them away from girls, and horny gay sluts is what you get....

 

[django]

Sodomy aka bacha baazi is primarily an Afghan disease that has infiltrated Pakistan with Afghans. Shut down madrassas (hugely prevalent there) and throw Afghans out, many social ills will automatically go away.

This has been going on long before the Afghans had arrived and will continue long after the Afghans have gone. Its common not just in madrassas but also government schools.

 

[mr.robot]

This has been going on long before the Afghans had arrived and will continue long after the Afghans have gone. Its common not just in madrassas but also government schools.

Exactly. This was a widespread disease in Punjab overall. However, it is getting reduced because of the society being sort of more "lenient and open" towards boy/girl thing or you can say the access to girls getting more easy.

 

[django]

Exactly. This was a widespread disease in Punjab overall. However, it is getting reduced because of the society being sort of more "lenient and open" towards boy/girl thing or you can say the access to girls getting more easy.

I hear in Sialkot their is a major epidemic of this filth, are folks like syed Ali going to blame the Afghans for that as well. I totally agree with your assesment of "lenient and open".

 

[SQ8]

Its not a hidden shame at all. That is misleading to say the least.
It is an ignored shameful act by the majority of the population that is apathetic to it; considering it a social evil that is somehow part of the culture.

 

[Kabira]

I hear in Sialkot their is a major epidemic of this filth, are folks like syed Ali going to blame the Afghans for that as well. I totally agree with your assesment of "lenient and open".

From what I know people in Gujrat have stereotype about Sialkot people as being gays, etc

This picture of Allama Iqbal who was born in Sialkot is used as joke to say Iqbal is sad at the fact that Sialkotias are gay.

You probably have heard something similar lol