Hate-Speech Hypocrites

[Zarvan]

You define yourself as a "fundamentalist" and "extremist" and say that you wanna die for Islam, and you expect me to take you seriously? People like you are the scourge of Muslim society. BTW how about looking forward to living than dying? Thats the issue, people like you invest in dying, the Jews invest in living. And thats why they are successful.

When you say all of these things, do you really think anti-muslim feelings arent justified? So now you have made your choice that you will endorse the holocaust of Jews. So now there is absolutely nothing wrong, if Jews say, "Bring it *****!!", and bomb the hell out of you. Dont complain, cuz you just justified everything Israel does.

Jews have always been ethno centric, and therefore whoever lives there today, in some way or another is related to people that were displaced earlier. Also, we cannot go back to biblical times and form nations based on that, cuz going by that same argument, Pakistan wont exist, India wont exist, the US wont exist. Going by recent history in the last 100 years, yes Israel is indeed a legitimate state.

Sir I said dying serving Islam no body can run away from death Sir that why not die for the best thing in the world serving it no body can attack our PROPHET SAW we love him more than anything else and this will be considered offence and in result the person where ever found will be punished Israel is the biggest terrorist country and killer of Muslims and innocent ones and will pay the price Jews invest in living good Joke Sir

 

[vsdoc]

There is no reason to kill them.

Unless they start the killing of course.

 

[jayron]

Jews were never resident of that area sir that is sure they came from Europe and captured land of Muslims by taking help of French and British and now killing Muslims and portraying themselves as most innocent people on the face of the earth in fact the are most brutal and cruel people and soon will pay the price for killing of Muslims their real holocaust will soon take place

What is the exact no. Of Muslims killed by Jews. Now compare that with the no. Of Muslims killed by Muslim governments. Stop over acting.

 

[Developereo]

which main stream media are you talking about; every one from jon stewart; to zakaria; to o reilly, everyone discourages such outrageous anti muslim hate speech.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I will give you one more specific example.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become a darling of the West and she claims (erroneously) that FGM is a Muslim custom. That is completely false; Amnesty International and other Western organizations will tell you that it is a regional, cultural custom practiced by Muslims, Christian, Jews, animists, etc. in certain parts of the world. Yet, Hirsi Ali, has been spreading her lies in all mainstream media, mainstream universities, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Readers Digest, etc. etc. She has been welcomed and honored by politicians in Europe and the US.

 

[gambit]

Everything you have written is correct.

None of what you have written justifies the ban on Holocaust speech.

The Holocaust is an actual event experienced, witnessed, and even recorded (by the perpetrators). Denying it is pretty much like denying the law of gravity.

Blasphemy, on the other hand, is much more problematic. A 'blasphemer' is one who deny but actually can go further than mere denial. He may also insult or even attribute to himself the characteristics of the godhood. The problem with anti-blasphemy laws is that it tacitly presupposed that a god whom it protects is as real as the law of gravity. The problem is further compounded by the fact that no one ever returned from the afterlife to tell us which religion is the true religion based upon the returnee's experience in the afterlife.

To refuse to obey the law of gravity is to have guaranteed outcome: death. On the other hand, refusal to deny the existence of a god never have anyone lost his life from immediate retribution from said god. Else we would not have such diverse religions in the first place, right?

Gravity is an effect from nature. We can neither change it nor deny it. Likewise, atrocious events like genocides or even a single murder cannot be denied, especially when there are plentiful of evidences to support it. But unlike gravity which has a guaranteed outcome, denial of a single murder or a genocide have no guaranteed adverse consequences. The dead cannot exact retribution. It is the living who exact retribution IF they so desired.

Which begs the question: Why would Germany enacted a law that while does not mention specifically 'The Holocaust', does indirectly protect this event from blasphemy (denial)?

Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB)

Section 130 Agitation of the People

(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or renders harmless an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 220a subsection (1), in a manner capable of disturbing the public piece shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

If a person refuse to obey the law of gravity, only that person die. Gravity does not exact collective retribution for the sin of one. But if a person refuse to accept that a genocide occurred, and if he shares the same mentality as the originators of the genocide, the fear is that if he is allowed to propagate that mentality and resurrect the organization that made possible that genocide is more legitimate than the muslims' anti-blasphemy laws.

Like it or not, Allah is not real. What happened to the Jews, aka 'The Holocaust', is real. And that make the protection of records of genocides from blasphemy more justifiable, even though it is in conflict with professed freedom of speech, than the muslims' anti-blasphemy laws, of which blasphemy is legitimate speech.

Show me Allah, or Rama, or Quetzacoalt, or even Jesus is real, and I will fully support the appropriate anti-blasphemy law alongside with 'Holocaust denial' laws.

Funny you should mention cowardly, since that is precisely the characteristic of people who resort to hide behind the anti-Semitism shield when they can't debate the actual issue.

Here's a Holocaust survivor who chafes at the abuse of the label anti-Semitism by Israeli apologists.

TLAXCALA : Unjust accusations of anti-Semitism demystified in booklet by Hajo Meyer

Hajo Meyer* published a remarkable booklet to counteract the conscious abuse of the terms anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism by the State of Israel and its umbrella organizations.

I suppose these Orthodox Jews are also anti-Semites...

Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism

That has nothing to do with YOU. We all know well enough the charge that Zionists rules America is one avenue in many to obliquely cast anti-Semitic insults at global Jewry. We also know well enough that YOU are one of those who so casually sling it. Be man enough to admit what you are.

 

[Juice]

Jews were never resident of that area sir that is sure they came from Europe and captured land of Muslims by taking help of French and British and now killing Muslims and portraying themselves as most innocent people on the face of the earth in fact the are most brutal and cruel people and soon will pay the price for killing of Muslims their real holocaust will soon take place

Even Mohamed knew that it was once the Jewish homeland....the whole horse and temple thing was to tie Islam to the old Abrahamic religions.

 

[Developereo]

The Holocaust is an actual event experienced, witnessed, and even recorded (by the perpetrators). Denying it is pretty much like denying the law of gravity.

No one's talking about denial, but questioning specific claims.

Again, like I wrote, being a Flat Earther or Creationist is not a criminal offence, and neither should be Holocaust denial. It should be despised, mocked, ridiculed, but not criminalized.

That has nothing to do with YOU. We all know well enough the charge that Zionists rules America is one avenue in many to obliquely cast anti-Semitic insults at global Jewry. We also know well enough that YOU are one of those who so casually sling it. Be man enough to admit what you are.

Uh huh. You don't even know that there are arguably more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jewish ones.

Excuse me while I ignore you and listen to an actual Holocaust survivor instead.

What does it tell you when accomplished and knowledgeable defenders of Israel rarely resort to the anti-Semitism charge and it is always the incompetent and desperate who seek refuge behind that shield?

 

[mfreak]

Sir I said dying serving Islam no body can run away from death Sir that why not die for the best thing in the world serving it no body can attack our PROPHET SAW we love him more than anything else and this will be considered offence and in result the person where ever found will be punished Israel is the biggest terrorist country and killer of Muslims and innocent ones and will pay the price Jews invest in living good Joke Sir

You are not serving Islam. You are doing a disservice to it. You are the reason for all the racism against muslims. By you, I mean people with ideas like you.

Secondly, if you cant take criticism, then it is your problem. If you wanna kill and brutalize people because they offended you, then be prepared for retaliation. Because by actually endorsing murder, and probably by doing it, you have offended someone else, and they have all the right in the world to pummel you as much as they want.

Israel is a liberal democracy. For all your accusations, what have your people ever done for the Palestinians. Israel on the other hand provides medical care, electricity etc etc., And muslims in Israel are far happier than they are in muslim nations. Islam has killed more muslims than any other religion has. So stop this nonsense.

 

[vsdoc]

I have never understod the Israel Palestine saga man.

Or why Muslims around the world are so activated.

What is Islam's track record about moving into foreign lands and displacing indigenous people?

Hypocrites every one of you crying crocodile tears here.

 

[mfreak]

I have never understod the Israel Palestine saga man.

Blind hatred is indeed difficult to understand

 

[MilSpec]

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I will give you one more specific example.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become a darling of the West and she claims (erroneously) that FGM is a Muslim custom. That is completely false; Amnesty International and other Western organizations will tell you that it is a regional, cultural custom practiced by Muslims, Christian, Jews, animists, etc. in certain parts of the world. Yet, Hirsi Ali, has been spreading her lies in all mainstream media, mainstream universities, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Readers Digest, etc. etc. She has been welcomed and honored by politicians in Europe and the US.

Sensationalism can go just mile... sooner or later they run out of steam, true conviction and solid principles live for ever; I haven't even heard of hirsi; but I have heard of mandela, gandhi, king, these are the ones that actually shape the opinions of the world;

 

[Zarvan]

I have never understod the Israel Palestine saga man.

Or why Muslims around the world are so activated.

What is Islam's track record about moving into foreign lands and displacing indigenous people?

Hypocrites every one of you crying crocodile tears here.

Muslims never displaced people from their lands Sir those who are living in Iran Iraq Morocco Algeria are their original residents not from outside Sir

 

[MilSpec]

No one's talking about denial, but questioning specific claims.

Again, like I wrote, being a Flat Earther or Creationist is not a criminal offence, and neither should be Holocaust denial. It should be despised, mocked, ridiculed, but not criminalized.

Do you see the flaw in your argument?

 

[Juice]

Hasbara Buster seems mentaly-challenged from his first few post....but has managed to start one of the most interesting, passionate, and well-discussed threads I have seen in a while. All the protagonist are bringing out there best reasoned arguemnets. Developero is taking a beating...but bearing up like a trooper!. By the way...this Hasbara guy has disappeared...not a sock-puppet...is he, Developero?

 

[angeldust]

Muslims never displaced people from their lands Sir those who are living in Iran Iraq Morocco Algeria are their original residents not from outside Sir

Cool!

What you forgot to mention is they are all also Muslims now.

I am sure the Israelis would not mind the Palestinians joining them post their Bar Mitzvahs as kosher Jews.