Has PAF managed to reduce threats posed by IAF?

[Ammyy]

........................

 

[Mani2020]

Imagination? r u talkin abt mightly LCA?

After first 50 JFTs Block-II will be inducted,Indiginous avionics are already being tested on it... WS-13 has completed txi runs.... MOU on stealthy features has been signed during UK airshow, more composite has started to appear.... A PAC engineer on PDF has confired abt it,VIXEN AESA has been offered,NRIET AESA is under development..... etc etc

And HQ-19,HQ-18 SAM batteries are being inducted....Enjoy.

Being a senior member its your responsibility not to feed the trolls

you will keep feeding,he will keep arguing ,such type of threads are full of biasedness

You can't expect and indian to truly admire PAF and similarly you can't expect from a Pakistani to truly admire IAF .so at the end of the day its all about patriotism and impulse

 

[aristocrat]

We can't match IAF number superiority and the only advantage IAF had over PAF in last decade is BVR-AAM just hit and run don't get involve in close dog fights with the induction of Aim-120Charlie and SD-10 their advantage is gone.

IAF advantages and disadvantages:

Number superiority.
IAF training and maintenance is poor.
IAF is short of 400 pilots and training aircrafts.
IAF aircrafts require more time for maintenance.
50% IAF inventory obsolete(IAF chief said that)
IAF will start receiving MRCA 2013 onwards, their MRCA wont have experience pilots anytime soon.


PAF advantages/disadvantages.
Small budget major disadvantage.
PAF have more number of pilots then aircrafts.
PAF training is world class and maintenance record is very good.
PAF defense capability is significantly increase with JF-17.(JF-17 4BVR+2WVR compared to F7PG with 2 missiles.)
In strike role we have h2, h4, Ra'ad IAF don't have anything which match this capability.
Our aircrafts are maintenance friendly like in one JF-17 video Pilot said its turn around time for next sortie is better then F-16. We can prepare JF-17 for next mission in very short time.

*IAF can create problems for us but they can't win.

IAF CHIEF used the word obsolescence and not obsolete.Nothing wrong with that.even su 30's will start being obsolete in next 10 years.

 

[TOPGUN]

We have been managing the threat since the birth of the nation nothing has changed nor it will PAF is always ready to respond

 

[unicorn148]

Did i talk abt them? u need to get a medical check up.





Mirage ROSE will remain and so will the newly acquired J-7PGs tht were bought during te lost decade and hence have new airframes etc.

And yes ROSE upgrades have BVR go search about it.


U will have the first sqn by 2012 at the latest while JFT block II will be in service by late 2011 or early 2012.




Any source for the 250 number or just imagination of urs?
First make LCA operational then talk abt mk-2.



Does india provide money for PAF? u were cryin the same about F-16s in the past.... also the final cost will be less despite its problem.
Also induction is still late and till ten im sure our economy will recover.....China has massive infra to easily produce a massive number of jets and as history show it still will be available to PAF despite problems .... u dont have to worry about it.



By tht time it will become operational and russian will surely fulfill their own need then indias.... so u can imagine when u will get ur hands into tht.



Yeah right and how many years has LCA taken? remember AMCA still is not even selected for development.

you better see your old post then you will know who need a medical check up...

secondly the rose upgrade .. even the Mirages of the France do not have the capabilities to carry BVR they carry AIM-9 which is not a BVR
and J-7 are not new and
The Pakistan Air Force is to replace its entire fleet of F-7 with the JF-17 light-weight fighter, all F-7P are planned to be retired and replaced with JF-17 by 2015.

and JF-17 block 2... till now PAF has not even selected which radar to use or the Engine and there is no news of block 2 completion before 2015 if you have any source show it ...................

LCA testing is completed and there was never a prob with it and it has performed excellently and by next year ready to get clearences
(first try to design a jet on your own then you will find it how difficult it is to make one even the even J10 was started in 1980's and was inducted in 2005 ...)


the F-16 money was paid from the money you got in Aid from US .....

how much fast they may be it will take a min of 5 years to build enough for PLAAF..
like J-10 was inducted in 2005 and PAF will get in 2015 same will be for J-xx ie after 2025

In the case of FGFA we have no prob because it will be manufactured by HAL and not Sukoi that is why HAL was told to complete the order of SU-30MKI by 2015 to make the production suitable for FGFA and the entire planes will be manufactured in India

The development of AMCA has started and the core technologies are being sorted out and it will fly by 2020...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

you better see your old post then you will know who need a medical check up.

Sure and see the highlighted part which highlight so u can see.... and deciede who need a check up.

secondly the rose upgrade .. even the Mirages of the France do not have the capabilities to carry BVR they carry AIM-9 which is not a BVR
and J-7 are not new and

France dont use Mirage Vs,III with a ROSE upgrade? also there are tread u need to consult before reaching conclusions...Its radar,avionics,deep strike element etc, etc and was rebuilt.

F-7PGs were bought during sanction era 1998-- onwards... most of em...

The Pakistan Air Force is to replace its entire fleet of F-7 with the JF-17 light-weight fighter, all F-7P are planned to be retired and replaced with JF-17 by 2015.

I told u the new F-7PGs will remain till 2020.

and JF-17 block 2... till now PAF has not even selected which radar to use or the Engine and there is no news of block 2 completion before 2015 if you have any source show it ...................

Keep tinking tht.... first ur delusion was it has no radar,second it cant fire a BVR and now this.... engine will be WS-13,AESA will be NRIET or frm europe.

LCA testing is completed and there was never a prob with it and it has performed excellently and by next year ready to get clearences
(first try to design a jet on your own then you will find it how difficult it is to make one even the even J10 was started in 1980's and was inducted in 2005 ...)

How many years has LCA taken and will take?

the F-16 money was paid from the money you got in Aid from US .....

God gave u a brain,hands and internet to google abt it... F-16s are paid by GOP frm defence budget.

how much fast they may be it will take a min of 5 years to build enough for PLAAF..

It will take te sametime it will take russia to equip itself first.

like J-10 was inducted in 2005 and PAF will get in 2015 same will be for J-xx ie after 2025

Pakistan ordered J-10B which is still in development.... again use ur brain.

In the case of FGFA we have no prob because it will be manufactured by HAL and not Sukoi that is why HAL was told to complete the order of SU-30MKI by 2015 to make the production suitable for FGFA and the entire planes will be manufactured in India

U wont be having it till 2020 at the latest.

The development of AMCA has started and the core technologies are being sorted out and it will fly by 2020...

First the 250 LCA source?and now 2020 etc sources?

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Yes PAF managed to reduced threat but upto certain extent.

Air superiority is still in IAF favour.

 

[unicorn148]

Sure and see the highlighted part which highlight so u can see.... and deciede who need a check up.



France dont use Mirage Vs,III with a ROSE upgrade? also there are tread u need to consult before reaching conclusions...Its radar,avionics,deep strike element etc, etc and was rebuilt.

F-7PGs were bought during sanction era 1998-- onwards... most of em...



I told u the new F-7PGs will remain till 2020.





Keep tinking tht.... first ur delusion was it has no radar,second it cant fire a BVR and now this.... engine will be WS-13,AESA will be NRIET or frm europe.



How many years has LCA taken and will take?




God gave u a brain,hands and internet to google abt it... F-16s are paid by GOP frm defence budget.



It will take te sametime it will take russia to equip itself first.





Pakistan ordered J-10B which is still in development.... again use ur brain.




U wont be having it till 2020 at the latest.



First the 250 LCA source?and now 2020 etc sources?

IF you still believe that Mirages can fire BVR show me a source or just dream about it....

Next i never said about JF-17 having no radar or any thing i told that JF-17 block 2 is no where near because that radar is not yet finalised and even the WS-13 is not ready ...(Even the J10B is not ready and will ready to induct by 2012 and you are dreaming of JF-17 will be ready by 2011..which is still not had its first flight JF-17 block 2)
IF you can show some source it will be good

the design of LCA was stared in 1990 and Mark-1 will be ready by 2011 ie 21 years (j10 took 18 years) and take for J10B which is taking 7-8 years more...

Use your brain too PLAAF is inducting the J10B some where between 2012-2015 and you are expecting you get it by 2014 ..the FC-20 first batch will be J10a and remaining will be J10B....

No we wil have it before 2020 because FGFA will be manufactured in India so Russia and India can simultaneously produce them so we need not wait for Russia ...

 

[BATMAN]

HI GROWLER, Here is how i see it:

In the late 90s and until 2008 PAF faced technical advantage by IAF such as BVR AAM and technical and numerical threat.
In simple words PAF main workforce F-7/Mirage had no BVR AAM meaning they were prone to BVR threats but at least today PAF is filling this gap by acquiring JF-17s.
Discuss, was 1990-2008 decade more challenging for PAF or the next decade?

It cannot be said with certainty that PAF never had BVR till 2008, yes may be not in 90's.
Therefore the perception of proportion of advantage has to be re-calibrated.
It is sure since the induction of JFT situation has changed dramatically and is also reported by various defence magazines.
Looking at future time line of developments PAF clearly edge out India by 2014.
1- All PAF will be BVR enabled.
2- 300 JFT incl. blk2
3- 18F-16 blk52+46MLU
4- Air-refueling facility
5- 12 AWACS system (redundant)
6- armed UAVs
7- medium to high alttitude SAMS
8- Ready to induct FC-20/J-xx

While Indian side:
1- migs will be obsolute
2- will be in the process of replacing its BVR.
3- less AWACS
4- MRCA will be a total stranger for InAF.
5- S-300 will not be most advance.

What will be relevant in InAF; mirage2000,mig-29 & SU30. Those can be balanced out collectively by F-16 and JFT.

my only concern is the period between 2011-2014.

in this regard, i actually, endorse Mastan Khan's theory about UAE mirrage-2000.
i think PAF shall delay the order of FC-20 till 2015 and buy UAE mirrage as interim solution.
it may not be technologically advance than FC-20 but PAF already had infrastructure to support that a/c, hence transition will be smooth.
By that time i expect Chinese engine to be matured and powerful enough.

 

[Trisonics]

Yes and No!

This will always be a cat and mouse game, given the technology access and money with IAF, the Indians will always set a benchmark for PAF to match, be it BVR, AWACS or the 5th generation air crafts. India has and will continue to get it and PAF will follow. In that sense it will always be a stale mate. If one has to check at any given point in time, PAF may be briefly on par as far as a defensive force but cannot out match IAF.

If one were to consider the air forces alone and the circumstances that lead to both being in the sky against each other, PAF has not advanced much. To break it down, as most Pakistanis talk the events that could lead to a war are Kashmir and water. In both cases India will only sit and watch, if there was to be a war, PAF has to be the aggressor and in this regard its resources are no match.

OTOH India will only attack if there was another terrorist attack on its soil from Pak and in this regard the PAF has made rapid advances and India now may think multiple times before it can attack.

All in all PAF has indeed added serious weapons and equipment as India does the same but the difference is India's soft weapons its political, diplomatic stance is getting stronger and will be the biggest adversary, bigger than the Su and FGFA.

 

[shanixee]

Guys be realistic...there is still huge gap between indian airforce and pakistan airforce and the gap is increasing day by day...the gagits we are inducting are not a surprise to indians and they know it long ago...and wat ever we are inducting is not a big deal but yes wat they are inducting will make a diffrence...its not important wat we willl hve in future...wat important is wat we hve right now...and yes if we are pushed we do not hve much to push back.....indians are pouring billions of $ and we are getting stuff on soft loans...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

IF you still believe that Mirages can fire BVR show me a source or just dream about it....

Search urself.

Next i never said about JF-17 having no radar or any thing i told that JF-17 block 2 is no where near because that radar is not yet finalised and even the WS-13 is not ready

...(Even the J10B is not ready and will ready to induct by 2012

How do u know it will be inducted by 2012? sources????

and you are dreaming of JF-17 will be ready by 2011..which is still not had its first flight JF-17 block 2)

By late 2011 or 2012.. all 250+ jets will beinducted till 2015 ... do the math. BLK-II will have a modified engine and not WS-13 remaining 150 will.

the design of LCA was stared in 1990 and Mark-1 will be ready by 2011 ie 21 years (j10 took 18 years)

Wrong! It was proposed in 69,studies were completed in 75!or 83.

and take for J10B which is taking 7-8 years more...

By 2014-15... coz? it of indiginous engine,AESA etc etc... all indigenous stuff which is opposite of LCA... whose engine,radar, forign avionics (it also as indigenous),help in design,ejection seat etc are foreign.

Use your brain too PLAAF is inducting the J10B some where between 2012-2015 and you are expecting you get it by 2014 ..the FC-20 first batch will be J10a and remaining will be J10B

....
Im using my brain but it seems ur is just not enough to comprehend tings?

Im asking sources for ur rant abt J10B induction?????

And do u have a CRYSTAL BALL about J-10A comprising Initial batch???? SOURCES?

No we wil have it before 2020 because FGFA will be manufactured in India so Russia and India can simultaneously produce them so we need not wait for Russia ...

First let it be active then russia provide u the TOT.

 

[!!craft!!]

ok lets srat with

Pakistan air force


JF-17 ThunderSBP aircraft Serial production aircraft.

QUANTITY = :14 and a total of A total of 250-300 aircraft expected to be delivered in the near future.


FC-20
Initial 36 FC-20 under negotiation,possibly to be delivered by 2015
FC-20 believed to be a version of the upgraded J-10B, incorporating an IRST, diverterless supersonic intake, new radar and modified vertical stabiliser fin
delivery of dozens more aircraft likely, possibly up to a total of 150 FC-20

F-16 Fighting FalconF-16A/B Block 15,F-16C/D Block 52+

QUANTITY =51,45 ,6 respectively at present..Pakistan possesses around 45 F-161A/B version. Pakistan Air Force also received around 6 F-16C/D versions of the 18 on order. Agreement signed in March 2010 with United States for an additional 14 F-16s, variant unconfirmed, to be delivered by December 2011

Dassault Mirage III
QUANTITY =121.

Dassault Mirage 5

QUANTITY =192,Pakistan air force will operate only 50 F-7PG variants until 2010 then F-7PG be replaced with JF-17 by 2015

Nanchang A-5
QUANTITY =41.All will be phased out and replaced by the JF-17 multi-role fighter to be complete by 2012..

uav


Burraq:Reconnaissance, strike, not operational testing going on..{correct me if i am wrong}

SATUMA Jasoos II Tactical reconnaissance, training
inducted in 2009

not sure about the quantity

SELEX Galileo FalcoSurveillance
QUANTITY =25


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indian air force

Sukhoi Su-30MKI

QUANTITY =122,The IAF have placed an order for a total of 272 Su-30MKIs of which 124 have been inducted as of July 2010.The IAF will receive 40 upgraded Su-30MKIs capable of carrying the BrahMos cruise missile possibly by 2012

Mikoyan MiG-29

QUANTITY =69.Known as Baaz (Hindi for Hawk) in IAF. All being upgraded to the SMT standard

Dassault Mirage 2000

QUANTITY =51.Known as Vajra (Hindi for Thunderbolt) in the IAF. All are to be upgraded to Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 variant. going to be upgraded with french avionics

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21

Upgraded MiG-21 Bison to be phased out by 2017.Other 80-90 Non-upgraded MiG-21s not included here to be phased out in 2012/2013

Jaguar

QUANTITY =139.Known as Shamsher in IAF service.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27
QUANTITY =100.Known as Bahadur (Hindi for Valiant) in IAF service.

UAV

Lakshya PTAPilotless Target Aircraft (PTA
QUANTITY =10..23 were orderd by India to be operated by the IAF, Indian army and Indian Navy.

IAI HarpyFire & Forget Radar Emitter Destroyer
QUANTITY NOT KNOWN.A UAV explosive which attacks enemy radars, but also destroys its self.

IAI HeronStrategic Multi-Role UAV

QUANTITY =25.India orderd 50 to be deployed by the IAF and Indian Navy

IAI Searcher

QUANTITY =100


I have not mentioned the amount of fighter aircrafts of indian navy and the future aircrafts in the indian airforce ...

 

[Dr sim]

post 1965 IAF has always been at the forefront of inducting some of the best aircrafts of their times. PAF has only followed IAF as a counter measure.
when u follow someone u will always be 5-10 yrs behind....
by the time PAF will finish with their JF_17s block 2, FC-20 and stuff ..India will have FGFA,another game changer...

India's real threat does not come from Pakistan anymore

 

[Jungibaaz]

The Gap is closing but it's not closed yet.

by 2015 PAF will have

• 250-300 JF-17s including block II and III
• 36 J-10B/FC-20 (dozens more may be ordered after initial delivery, total 150 possible)
• at least 75 F-16 block 52+ maybe more
• 121 Mirage-5
• armed UAVs
• Air-to-Air refuelling capability

^^ all of these fighters BVR capable with AWACS support.

After the first 50 JF-17s, block II induction will begin, possibly around late 2011 or 2012, JF-17 block II will have AESA, IRST, more composites, more stealthy features and WS-13 so greater payload.

not to mention SPADA 2000, HQ-9 and HQ-18 SAM systems.

seems like a formidable air defence to me....