Has PAF managed to reduce threats posed by IAF?

[DESERT FIGHTER]

First learn to take care of your own words then teach others

Present situation (India)

Sukhoi Su-30MKI -140
Mikoyan MiG-29S- 69 ( On the way to upgrade)
Dassault Mirage 2000 - 51 (still up-gradation not confirm)
MiG-21 Bison - 121 and etc

Obsolete.

UAVs
IAI-Searcher, IAI Heron, IAI Harpy, Lakshya PTA

We have lots of em... FALCO,UQAB,FLAMINGO,NISHAN,SHADOW,Buraq,jasoos,.... etc etc

(Pakistan)
JF-17 Thunder - 25
F-161A/B - 45 (still upgradashion not confirm)
F-16C/D - 6
Dassault Mirage III - 121
Dassault Mirage 5 - 60

Ur total of F-16 wrong.... its 45+16 + 18 and 18(in negotiations)

All older blocks going Upgradation by TAI,Turkiye to block 52 standards wit extra goodies.More F-16s might be returned.
Some 52+ Mirages are upgraded under ROSE program new avionics,radars,systems and BVR and deep,night strike capabilities.
192 J-7PGS with modifications,BVR etc...

And about 42 A-5s all upgraded will be pased out by JF-17Thunders.
And 36-50 J-10Bs on order will rise to 150 as per different sources.

Indian Air force have - "S-300, SPYDER SAM,AKASH" Pakistan air force - Nothing ( dnt know)

MBDA Spada-2000 "Plus" which entails upgraded electronics, sensors and enhanced command & control capabilities.
H-9 roumered while its radar was seen in a demonstration so probably we have tht.
ANZA series,RBD-70 .... im not knowlegded abt SAMs maybe other members can help.

Future (India)
126 MMRCA ( Conformed )
300 PAKFA/FGFA (Conformed)
48 LCA Tejas Mk1 (Conformed )

64 MMRCA (May be no. extend to total 200)
200 AMCA (Still in development - not conformed)
250 Tejas Mk2 ( Still in development - not conformed)

No LCA mk-ii even MK-I is still under development.And there is not even a rumor of having 250 LCA rather a hundred or so.

(Pakistan)
250 JF17 (Still in development - not conformed)
36 FC-20 ( Order conformed - still in development )
JXX- ?????????????

[/QUOTE]

Why not confirmed? hasnt PAF talked abt tht a hundred times? BLK-II is under development already.... FC-20 will rise to 150...
JXX or even F-35 to counter indian 5t gen fighter in the next decade.

 

[rockstarIN]

^^^Growler,

Your first post is very confusing..

Discuss, was 1990-2008 decade more challenging for PAF or the next decade?

-> A decade is a period of 10 years, whereas you put 1990-2008, which of course is not. You should mention the period you wants to analyze because both PAF & IAF are inducting/upgrading its inventory as well as weapon systems.

Rgds,

 

[Manticore]

u want a know ground reality and still u refrain from acknowledging the ground reality

U r talking about the coming decade FGFA is very much a part of IAF in the coming decade,as it is all set to get inducted in 2018(according to official's

Now coming to the topic,like AMCA said BVR is not a game changer,even our Mig-21's have it,so at best u had only scored even,but still we have a much bigger fleet

So what i believe is PAF should give more importance to the induction of new generation SAM's in high number,along with the induction of new planes which Pakistan had already in sight.

PAF primary objective id defense of their skies(according to Pakistani members),so focusing more on advanced SAM's will b quite helpful

I think PN should also raise a separate fleet to protect their naval assets,that can b helpful in offloading the pressure from PAF,and it all depends on funds also,i think even 2 or 3 squads will b sufficient

till the time we didnt 'officially' have bvr , indians used to say bvr is a game changer-

-- same goes for awacs
''india has entered into the select few countries having awacs and pinpoint and destroy paf jets even before they enter indian airspace'' they used to say etc

---
but now since we have them its not a game changer anymore!
till the day we didnt have them n our airspace , they called us as being merely speculative --- now whats speculative about j10b/jf17, i cant comprehend -- but according to indians fgfa is not speculative.talk about bs!
---

instead of buying some batteries of sams , paf considers it most cost effective to buy aircrafts-- this subject is talked to death anyway

PN raising a separate fleet is not practical/cost effective as well as an administerative nightmare

 

[Myth_buster_1]

^^^Growler,

Your first post is very confusing..

Discuss, was 1990-2008 decade more challenging for PAF or the next decade?

-> A decade is a period of 10 years, whereas you put 1990-2008, which of course is not. You should mention the period you wants to analyze because both PAF & IAF are inducting/upgrading its inventory as well as weapon systems.

Rgds,

Let me call it A Century or months. As long as people are getting the point.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

We obviously know Your Intention of Starting this thread, If You cannot take What has been answerd for Your Questions, Please Place a Counter argument rather Escaping by saying "All Is BS"

Kid listen.
I have been here in this forum long enough to know all of the above same repeating stuff. I have more knowledge about Indian defence then you so dont tell me you have answered anything.

 

[unicorn148]

Obsolete.




We have lots of em... FALCO,UQAB,FLAMINGO,NISHAN,SHADOW,Buraq,jasoos,.... etc etc



Ur total of F-16 wrong.... its 45+16 + 18 and 18(in negotiations)

All older blocks going Upgradation by TAI,Turkiye to block 52 standards wit extra goodies.More F-16s might be returned.
Some 52+ Mirages are upgraded under ROSE program new avionics,radars,systems and BVR and deep,night strike capabilities.
192 J-7PGS with modifications,BVR etc...

And about 42 A-5s all upgraded will be pased out by JF-17Thunders.
And 36-50 J-10Bs on order will rise to 150 as per different sources.



MBDA Spada-2000 "Plus" which entails upgraded electronics, sensors and enhanced command & control capabilities.
H-9 roumered while its radar was seen in a demonstration so probably we have tht.
ANZA series,RBD-70 .... im not knowlegded abt SAMs maybe other members can help.



No LCA mk-ii even MK-I is still under development.And there is not even a rumor of having 250 LCA rather a hundred or so.

Why not confirmed? hasnt PAF talked abt tht a hundred times? BLK-II is under development already.... FC-20 will rise to 150...
JXX or even F-35 to counter indian 5t gen fighter in the next decade.[/QUOTE]


Firstly only our Mig-21 are a bit Obsolete
Su 30mki MIG-29 and Mirage 2000 are in an excellent condition


Mirages and J-7 are Obsolete and will be phased out after JF-17 will be inducted and the rose upgrade doesnt include BVR capabilities

LCA mark-1 40 are ordered and by early 2011 it will get all clearences
and will be inducted
the GE414 engine order is given because of LCA mark2 and 250 will be ordered to phase out the MIG-21

PAF can never afford F-35 will the cost rising so much and J-XX is not near because it will take 2-3 or more years for its first flight and 5 more years for induction so PLAAF will have it by 2018 or above and they will be ready to sell you only after induction some 200 planes and that will take 5 more years so PAF may get it by 2025...
but IAF will have it by 2017-2019..... and AMCA will be ready by 2020-2022....

 

[Speeder 2]

I think with the acquisition of AWACs, PAF has almost nullified IAF's tactical advantages.

IAF's numerical advantage is not as impressive as it sounds, since the potential future conflict points are limited btw the two and one can't just fly all their arsenal there.

PAF has decent air defence; potent platforms (F16, JF-17, FC-20, etc), BVR missiles, AWACs and refuelers. These are all one needs to organise a strong defend and/or attack agianst Su30mki alike.

As PAF collaborate mainly with PLAAF while IAF import all their key tools from the west, China's rapid catchup withWestern tech even surpass it in due time could eventually make PAF stronger (technologically) compared to IAF in the long run.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Did i talk abt them? u need to get a medical check up.

Mirages and J-7 are Obsolete and will be phased out after JF-17 will be inducted and the rose upgrade doesnt include BVR capabilities

Mirage ROSE will remain and so will the newly acquired J-7PGs tht were bought during te lost decade and hence have new airframes etc.

And yes ROSE upgrades have BVR go search about it.

LCA mark-1 40 are ordered and by early 2011 it will get all clearences
and will be inducted

U will have the first sqn by 2012 at the latest while JFT block II will be in service by late 2011 or early 2012.

the GE414 engine order is given because of LCA mark2 and 250 will be ordered to phase out the MIG-21

Any source for the 250 number or just imagination of urs?
First make LCA operational then talk abt mk-2.

PAF can never afford F-35 will the cost rising so much and J-XX is not near because it will take 2-3 or more years for its first flight and 5 more years for induction so PLAAF will have it by 2018 or above and they will be ready to sell you only after induction some 200 planes and that will take 5 more years so PAF may get it by 2025...

Does india provide money for PAF? u were cryin the same about F-16s in the past.... also the final cost will be less despite its problem.
Also induction is still late and till ten im sure our economy will recover.....China has massive infra to easily produce a massive number of jets and as history show it still will be available to PAF despite problems .... u dont have to worry about it.

but IAF will have it by 2017-2019.....

By tht time it will become operational and russian will surely fulfill their own need then indias.... so u can imagine when u will get ur hands into tht.

and AMCA will be ready by 2020-2022....

Yeah right and how many years has LCA taken? remember AMCA still is not even selected for development.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Another good news for indians........ :
Pakistan Military Review: Pakistan Air Force to Purchase 4 Chinese SAM Systems
courtesy EAGLE20054

HQ-18, HQ-9 or HQ-19 under evaluation...

 

[Jigs]

Induction of BVR capable stuff certainly helped but i still think IAF holds the technological advantage till you get something that can match those SU-30MKIs. An argument could be made that the Block 52s may be in this range but the SU-30 still pulls ahead here. Large induction of JF-17s and some J-10s will help but India will also increase SU-30MKI numbers and induct MRCA next and that will keep it ahead again. As far as threat reduction though PAF has done a great job with what it has to work with.

 

[Ammyy]

U will have the first sqn by 2012 at the latest while JFT block II will be in service by late 2011 or early 2012.

Sir come out from your dream world

Not a single deal signed for any type of up-gradation of blk2.........

Really good imagination blk2 in service by late 2011 or early 2012

 

[AMCA]

Kid listen.
I have been here in this forum long enough to know all of the above same repeating stuff. I have more knowledge about Indian defence then you so dont tell me you have answered anything.

Self Admiration Is Not a Sign of Virtue Sir... Just because You have been here for Long enough Is not a Certificate for Your Knowledge But Experience... You do not become mature Calling me a Kid...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@JIGS......PAF will go for more F-16s and increase te order of FC-20 to 150 as per many sources.

 

[Mani2020]

No matter how much you prolong the discussion and keep defending your arguments still At the end of the it will all come to nuclear warheads ,where neither su-30's nor j-10's can do anything

so no use of indulging in such kind of discussion,

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Sir come out from your dream world

Not a single deal signed for any type of up-gradation of blk2.........

Really good imagination blk2 in service by late 2011 or early 2012

Imagination? r u talkin abt mightly LCA?

After first 50 JFTs Block-II will be inducted,Indiginous avionics are already being tested on it... WS-13 has completed txi runs.... MOU on stealthy features has been signed during UK airshow, more composite has started to appear.... A PAC engineer on PDF has confired abt it,VIXEN AESA has been offered,NRIET AESA is under development..... etc etc

And HQ-19,HQ-18 SAM batteries are being inducted....Enjoy.