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Why don't Pakistan gets 4 Submarines on Lease ? Once we get our new submarines perhaps we can return the lease ones back to China?

  • 4 Ships (Lease)
  • 4 Submarines (Lease)

8-) Of course we can opt to buy if we want to retain the Lease units
 
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Why don't Pakistan gets 4 Submarines on Lease ? Once we get our new submarines perhaps we can return the lease ones back to China?

  • 4 Ships (Lease)
  • 4 Submarines (Lease)

8-) Of course we cab opt to buy if we want to retain the Lease units
The only country that has ever leased a submarine is USSR and that too a nuclear submarine to India as it is prohibited to sell them. A leased submarine can't be used to fight but only can be used for surveillance and training
 
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Thank that changes every thing ... so we should look into getting more leased ships and submarines
 
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Thank that changes every thing ... so we should look into getting more leased ships and submarines
These ships can't be used for fighting. Hence Pakistan can only get training, not able to fight war with it. Why would Pakistan want such restrictions? Unless Pakistan has a nuclear submarine project and needs training in handling such a submarine, there is no reason to lease. Also, it is unlikely that any country will charge less for a lease of conventional ship/submarine than outright buying. These vessels are customised and hence taking it back after lease period will require overhauling which prevents anyone from leasing at low prices. Leasing is only worthwhile for higher end technology like nuclear submarine and that too for training purpose only

Which country is ready to give nuclear submarine or ship on lease to Pakistan?
 
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Some rare angle come from Type 039B.
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It is clear every where that these shall be AIP equipped conventional subs though may have tubes capable of firing 450 KM range Babur CM.

Max range not disclosed I think the test range was 450 km but it could be assumed range is between 450-700 km similar to land based version

Initial statement from ispr / navy stated test range was 450km

My guess though

Similarly Shaheen iii was tested for 2000 km but actual range is 2750km based on fuel but tested to 2000 km
 
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吴晓光所长会见巴基斯坦海军沙菲克少将
李戈阳 王薇 中船重工701所 昨天

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7月6日上午,吴晓光所长在综合楼会客厅会见了巴基斯坦海军某项目负责人沙菲克少将,我所陈炜所长助理、外贸处和潜艇部相关领导参加了活动。

沙菲克少将感谢吴晓光所长的专门会见和周到安排,对我所的项目设计工作表示满意,对各方在时间紧、任务重、困难多的情况下为推进项目做出的努力表达诚挚的谢意,同时对此项目综合保障包开发合作事项提出了后续工作建议。

吴晓光所长对沙菲克少将一行的到来表示欢迎。他表示,该项目是“一带一路”的重要成果,更是中巴深厚友谊的象征,针对巴方关心的各类问题,双方将继续加强沟通协商,进一步加深在设计理念方面的共识,确保项目按计划高质量实施,不断开启中巴技术合作新篇章。

Source:https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/MtIq9rzZUl6BBXJzdLXC3w

Google Translate:
On the morning of July 6, Director Wu Xiaoguang met with Major General Shafik, the head of the project of the Pakistan Navy, in the living room of the comprehensive building. The assistants of the director of the Institute, the Foreign Trade Office and the submarine department attended the event.

Major General Shafiq thanked Director Wu Xiaoguang for his special meeting and thoughtful arrangement, expressed his satisfaction with the design work of our project, and expressed sincere interest to all parties in their efforts to promote the project in a tight schedule, heavy tasks and difficulties. Thanks, at the same time, I proposed follow-up work on the development cooperation package for this project.

Director Wu Xiaoguang welcomed the arrival of Major General Shafiq and his party. He said that the project is an important achievement of the "Belt and Road" and is a symbol of China-Pakistan deep friendship. The two sides will continue to strengthen communication and consultation on various issues of concern to the Palestinian side, further deepen the consensus on design concepts and ensure the project. According to the high-quality implementation of the plan, we will continue to open a new chapter in China-Pakistan technical cooperation.

@Zarvan
 
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It is banned by international rules to sell any weapon with nuclear material, warhead or submarines. One can lease nuclear submarine provided it is under supervision of the home country by means of an ombudsman. But, that will mean that such a submarine will not be able to be operated freely and many equipments like nuclear warhead tipped missiles will not be permitted.

So, I don't think China is going to sell nuclear submarine to Pakistan.

It is forbidden to sell nuclear warheads under NPT. It clearly qualifies as a nuclear device.

There is no ban on nuclear material so long it is for civilian use and preferably transferred under IAEA safeguards and oversight.

It is NOT forbidden to sell nuclear powered submarines. Only its nuclear payload i.e. nuclear capable SLBM and SLCM would be barred from sell, and that too due to international norms. MTCR is an informal agreement (not formally binding). Essentially, its just the nuclear warheads for SLCM & SLBM that states are formally not allowed to sell. The fuel for nuclear submarine is a big grey area. If nuclear submarines were ever banned, USSR/Russia would never have been able to even lease it to India. The reason states don't sell nuclear submarines are due to the; (1). political implications, (2). technological implications, and (3). operational implications: most possessor states usually only produce and operate minimum required number of nuclear submarines because of their high cost. Thus, they can seldom afford to divert them away from national operational requirements.

China has scarcity of nuclear powered submarines and would not be willing to handover its new boats to anyone, though it may be willing to accommodate PN personal onboard its subs for training purpose. The Type-092 - PLAN's first nuclear submarine - has a questionable capability, is underpowered, and is a health hazard. PLAN might have even secretly retired it by now. If PN wants a nuclear submarine it would have to build one indigenously with or without Chinese assistance. The question is whether we actually need one? PN seeks littoral deterrence, for which AIP equipped conventional submarines with few Vertical Launch Systems (VLS) could suffice.
 
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It is forbidden to sell nuclear warheads under NPT. It clearly qualifies as a nuclear device.

There is no ban on nuclear material so long it is for civilian use and preferably transferred under IAEA safeguards and oversight.

It is NOT forbidden to sell nuclear powered submarines. Only its nuclear payload i.e. nuclear capable SLBM and SLCM would be barred from sell, and that too due to international norms. MTCR is an informal agreement (not formally binding). Essentially, its just the nuclear warheads for SLCM & SLBM that states are formally not allowed to sell. The fuel for nuclear submarine is a big grey area. If nuclear submarines were ever banned, USSR/Russia would never have been able to even lease it to India. The reason states don't sell nuclear submarines are due to the; (1). political implications, (2). technological implications, and (3). operational implications: most possessor states usually only produce and operate minimum required number of nuclear submarines because of their high cost. Thus, they can seldom afford to divert them away from national operational requirements.

China has scarcity of nuclear powered submarines and would not be willing to handover its new boats to anyone, though it may be willing to accommodate PN personal onboard its subs for training purpose. The Type-092 - PLAN's first nuclear submarine - has a questionable capability, is underpowered, and is a health hazard. PLAN might have even secretly retired it by now. If PN wants a nuclear submarine it would have to build one indigenously with or without Chinese assistance. The question is whether we actually need one? PN seeks littoral deterrence, for which AIP equipped conventional submarines with few Vertical Launch Systems (VLS) could suffice.
Nuclear reactor technology is also proprietary. It is not simply sold off. Now, just like Pakistan gave nuclear material to Libya, Iran etc, it is also possible for others to give away nuclear submarines, but selling them is not acceptable under NPT. The miniature nuclear reactor used in submarine is a difficult design and not something anyone can make. That is where the technology part comes in.

Manufacturing in numbers is not a problem. China makes cars like pizzas - 2.4 crore a year! They make submarines and other defence items rather quickly too. So, I would not say that making a nuclear submarine is a big task when the technology is already available. The question is will China give the high end proprietary technology to Pakistan like Pakistan gave away nuclear weapons secrets to Libya, Iran etc?
 
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Waste of money PAKISTAN SHOULD have gone for French subs.

You should tell this to the Royal Thai Navy, which is getting the same submarines along with CM-708UNB anti-ship missiles (range: 290 km).

DCNS even lost the Pakistan Navy Agosta 90B upgrade tender to Turkey's STM.
 
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The only country that has ever leased a submarine is USSR and that too a nuclear submarine to India as it is prohibited to sell them. A leased submarine can't be used to fight but only can be used for surveillance and training
you indians think world start from kashmir to kaniya kumari ? its common practice to lease ships and submarines

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...d-shed-for-leased-submarines/article18282679/


https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sweden-has-a-sub-thats-so-deadly-the-us-navy-hired-it-t-1649695984

The Canadian navy leases a submarine from the U.S. for training purposes, renaming it HMCS Grilse.

The Canadian navy leases another American sub, renaming it HMCS Rainbow,

USA to Lease Gotland-Class Sub
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...kholm-oks-submarine-lease-to-us-(nov.-8).html

S-25 served both the US and Polish Navies (Lend Lease from U.K.)


Australia urged to lease subs
https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-urged-to-lease-subs-20120210-1t9d8.html
 
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